MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor

[Anonymous]

I'd argue it's also worthwhile to save your money (and your kids' loan debt) for graduate school esp. if they're non-STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Washingtonian or Bethesda Magazine recently published this. It was disturbing. Not aiming for Harvard but community college or UMD is not OK.[/quote]

What crawled up your ass and died today?

What a bitch!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.

Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.

Turning down a top Ivy to go to Fordham seems ridiculous to me when you consider the advantages over the long run.

No way! I got accepted into an Ivy and turned it down for a full-ride at a state school (gasp!!). It was just undergrad, and my family couldn't have afforded to send me to the Ivy without taking out tons of loans. I couldn't justify it. I did fantastic at the lowly state school and got a great education. Went on to a great grad school and an awesome career where I work part-time and make oodles of money doing satisfying work.

Fordham is a great school, and your post is ridiculous. We can afford to send our kids to college anywhere, but have told them that if they get a full ride somewhere and want to take it, we'll save up the money we would have spent on their undergrad education and give it to them as a lump sum after graduation - to buy their first house, to start a business, whatever. We'll see what they choose!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are some facts to keep in mind. This debate keeps coming back.

Yes, Harvard offers FA for families with incomes up to $120k. But...
- To get this generous Harvard FA, your kid has to get into Harvard.
- Harvard is the most generous college out there, besides the Curtis School of Music, that art school in NYC whose name I forget (and even that's changing, I hear), CalTech (although I'm not sure about that one) and is it Berea college in Kentucky, all of which offer full rides.
- Most college FA packages, including from most other Ivies, are less generous.
- Less generous means: these Ivies offer less grant aid, they offer a mix of loans with the grants, and families are helped up to levels that are much below $120k.
- For families with household incomes over $120k, FA won't be available unless you have other circumstances, like another sibling in college, or really high medical bills. To put this in DMV terms, a family with one government worker and a SAHM, or a family with both parents working at not-for-profits, is probably not going to get FA.
- And yet, a family with income of $120-200k is going to struggle to pay bills in the DMV area, while still saving for college.
- Merit aid from second-tier schools is starting to look really appealing!

You nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a Harvard interviewer in this area for a while. We see a lot of great kids coming out of Whitman and BCC, and of course Blair Magnet. The kids from the other high schools are less competitive for a few reasons. Some don't have the academics (a common refrain among interviewers is "I'd never get in today", where SATs of all 750+, at least 3 APs with 5's as a junior and weighted GPA well over 4 only puts you in the top third of applicants, and Harvard takes the top fourth of that group.) However, a lot of it is the lack of extracurricular distinction. Kids stuck in cul-de-sacs tend to have less involvement In extracurriculars, and don't have the leadership or the independent research projects that we see at the most competitive schools.

How do you rate the Walter Johnson students?

[Anonymous]

Umd is a much better school than it was 20 years ago. It's on par with Syracuse, rated about 60th among all universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Washingtonian or Bethesda Magazine recently published this. It was disturbing. Not aiming for Harvard but community college or UMD is not OK.[/quote]

What crawled up your ass and died today?

What a bitch!

Haha! I wouldn't have put it quite this way. Yet I think we share the same hope, that OP puts her sprogs in private school and she stays away from our publics. Then we can check in when OP's kids graduate and snicker about how they did worse college-wise, at least by OP's own standards, than all their private school classmates with $$$ for full tuition and legacy status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.

Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.

Turning down a top Ivy to go to Fordham seems ridiculous to me when you consider the advantages over the long run.

A top Ivy has advantages, sure. But Fordham is a solid and competitive school and depending on your area of study you can do very well as a graduate. Moreover, there is zero advantage to graduatin with six figures in students loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Umd is a much better school than it was 20 years ago. It's on par with Syracuse, rated about 60th among all universities.

UMD is top 20, aiming for top 10, in engineering / STEM. Business is also excellent - and if you want to stay in DC, great alumni network. Wish I had saved my $$$ and gone there instead of Georgetown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're trying to decide whether to start saving for private high school or stay in MCPS. I was very shocked at how bad competitive college acceptance was for MCPS including the four "W" schools. We are not aspiring for Ivy league. Our kids are very smart but normal not gifted. Athletic but not national championship level. I hate the idea of paying for 4 years of private school and then college but I don't want UMD to be the top high stretch goal school and a community college to be the probably choice.

Is there a reason why MCPS grads' acceptances are so incredibly low?

OP, MCPS is a HUGE system. Look at rates for your local HS. If you are in Bethesda / Silver Spring, check out the link (searchable here on DCUM) to the grad rates and placements. They are excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a Harvard interviewer in this area for a while. We see a lot of great kids coming out of Whitman and BCC, and of course Blair Magnet. The kids from the other high schools are less competitive for a few reasons. Some don't have the academics (a common refrain among interviewers is "I'd never get in today", where SATs of all 750+, at least 3 APs with 5's as a junior and weighted GPA well over 4 only puts you in the top third of applicants, and Harvard takes the top fourth of that group.) However, a lot of it is the lack of extracurricular distinction. Kids stuck in cul-de-sacs tend to have less involvement In extracurriculars, and don't have the leadership or the independent research projects that we see at the most competitive schools.

What the hell are you referring to?

Do kids who live in grid-street neighborhoods have more extracurriculars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Umd is a much better school than it was 20 years ago. It's on par with Syracuse, rated about 60th among all universities.

UMD is top 20, aiming for top 10, in engineering / STEM. Business is also excellent - and if you want to stay in DC, great alumni network. Wish I had saved my $$$ and gone there instead of Georgetown.

My DC is at a big 3 and part of me wants to push UMD because it's a decent school and so affordable, but to him I think it would be a little bit of a failure because it's so close to home and is missing any pizazz factor. He'd probably prefer almost any state school, like Rutgers, Temple, Penn state, u mass etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Umd is a much better school than it was 20 years ago. It's on par with Syracuse, rated about 60th among all universities.

UMD is top 20, aiming for top 10, in engineering / STEM. Business is also excellent - and if you want to stay in DC, great alumni network. Wish I had saved my $$$ and gone there instead of Georgetown.

My DC is at a big 3 and part of me wants to push UMD because it's a decent school and so affordable, but to him I think it would be a little bit of a failure because it's so close to home and is missing any pizazz factor. He'd probably prefer almost any state school, like Rutgers, Temple, Penn state, u mass etc.

While I disagree that UMD is simply a "decent" school, I think the point you make about being too close to home is a good one. Kids that age want/need some independence, and going to a school 30 minutes away from home might not fit the bill. Honestly, this is one of the things that I think VA has MD beat on; there are many more good public schools in VA.

[Anonymous]

Me and bro both went to UMD out of W high school. Both got into Ivies like Penn, Cornell, Columbia. Bro got into MIT and wait listed at Harvard. We both chose UMD for scholarships, he got a full ride. Afterwards we both went to top 10 law schools so don't knock it until you try it.

[Anonymous]

Me and bro both went to UMD out of W high school. Both got into Ivies like Penn, Cornell, Columbia. Bro got into MIT and wait listed at Harvard. We both chose UMD for scholarships, he got a full ride. Afterwards we both went to top 10 law schools so don't knock it until you try it.

I read in a recentish ny times article that when you look at the outcomes of people who got into highly competitive colleges (like Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford) who did not matriculate for financial reasons for the most part statistically had the same life success as people who did attend an ivy--that is a good portion of the "success" that comes from attending an ivy is because it is a very self-selected pool of applicants who are very driven, and those people would do well wherever they attend. However there was a caveat to this story--this trend did not hold up for racial minorities from poor backgrounds; when poor racial minorities, primarily black and hispanic applicants attended elite universities, the impact on their career was greater than less selective universities.