Presidential Management Felows Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fed here. Do not go into fed gov't. Been getting worse for years and trend looks set to continue.

You know, these kinds of comments are not really helpful without more details. How is it getting worse, and how do these changes compare with the private sector? Can any one person really speak about the federal government, which is a gigantic employer with so many different offices and organizations, across the board? I'm not saying that you're wrong, but that you need to provide more information.

[Anonymous]

Congrats! I was a PMF in 1998 (called PMI back then) and I've been pretty happy with what the program did for me, but PPs are correct that you should choose your agency carefully. Take a look at these survey results for some additional guidance:

http://bestplacestowork.org/BPTW/rankings/overall/large

[Anonymous]

Thank you pp!!! That is a SUPER helpful link! If anyone else has more information about the good vs. bad government agencies, that would be VERY appreciated!!! TIA so much!!!

[Anonymous]

I graduated grad school in 2011 and many of my friends received PMF. In fact, our program is one of the largest recipients of PMF awards (upwards of 35 in my graduating class of 300).

At this point, it's a fairly useless designation if you're a civilian. Two reasons:

1. Veterans preference: the only people PMF can actually help is veterans. If you don't have veterans preference, it's extremely difficult to get a job. The whole point of PMF is that you're supposed to use the designation to shop around at various agencies and complete rotations. It's next to impossible to get a job as a civilian via random applications to agencies. You need to intern or otherwise have a strong connection pulling for you, if you're not a veteran. PMF will help a veteran candidate stand out.

2. Dwindling budgets: For many hiring mangers, PMF is actually seen as a bad thing in this era of tightening budgets. PMF forces the agencies to give you promotions and raises on a set schedule without much flexibility. Why hire a PMF at a higher salary and guaranteed raises, when I can hire another new grad for cheaper and gives me more flexibility with my budget into the future? During times of shrinking budgets, the PMF guidelines act as a perverse incentive to NOT hire the best candidate. That's bureaucratic efficiency for you.

The PMF is a useless program at this point in time. Maybe it will be relevant 20 years from now after we've worked through our current crop of veterans. The cast majority of my friends who received PMF in 2011 lost their opportunity to use it, as they couldn't get hired (I believe you have 12 months to find a job before it's benefits expire).

That said my buddy who got it received multiple cold calls from the CFPB for various positions. They got his name off the PMF list. Unfortunately, the jobs he was offered were utter shit, with 90% monthly travel to North Dakota overseeing credit card company compliance.

If I've inaccurately reflected anything, feel free to correct me. I'm just passing along various bits of info I've gleaned from different friends over the past few years.

Your best bet is to get PMF while already interning in an agency that you want to work at. That way they can create a customized position for you (if the budget is available).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated grad school in 2011 and many of my friends received PMF. In fact, our program is one of the largest recipients of PMF awards (upwards of 35 in my graduating class of 300).

At this point, it's a fairly useless designation if you're a civilian. Two reasons:

1. Veterans preference: the only people PMF can actually help is veterans. If you don't have veterans preference, it's extremely difficult to get a job. The whole point of PMF is that you're supposed to use the designation to shop around at various agencies and complete rotations. It's next to impossible to get a job as a civilian via random applications to agencies. You need to intern or otherwise have a strong connection pulling for you, if you're not a veteran. PMF will help a veteran candidate stand out.

2. Dwindling budgets: For many hiring mangers, PMF is actually seen as a bad thing in this era of tightening budgets. PMF forces the agencies to give you promotions and raises on a set schedule without much flexibility. Why hire a PMF at a higher salary and guaranteed raises, when I can hire another new grad for cheaper and gives me more flexibility with my budget into the future? During times of shrinking budgets, the PMF guidelines act as a perverse incentive to NOT hire the best candidate. That's bureaucratic efficiency for you.

The PMF is a useless program at this point in time. Maybe it will be relevant 20 years from now after we've worked through our current crop of veterans. The cast majority of my friends who received PMF in 2011 lost their opportunity to use it, as they couldn't get hired (I believe you have 12 months to find a job before it's benefits expire).

That said my buddy who got it received multiple cold calls from the CFPB for various positions. They got his name off the PMF list. Unfortunately, the jobs he was offered were utter shit, with 90% monthly travel to North Dakota overseeing credit card company compliance.

If I've inaccurately reflected anything, feel free to correct me. I'm just passing along various bits of info I've gleaned from different friends over the past few years.

Your best bet is to get PMF while already interning in an agency that you want to work at. That way they can create a customized position for you (if the budget is available).

I should also add that PMF is useless for non-GS positions, IFAIK. It's not recognized by agencies not on the GS scale (Occ, FDIC, fed, Foreign Service, OPIC, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated grad school in 2011 and many of my friends received PMF. In fact, our program is one of the largest recipients of PMF awards (upwards of 35 in my graduating class of 300).

At this point, it's a fairly useless designation if you're a civilian. Two reasons:

1. Veterans preference: the only people PMF can actually help is veterans. If you don't have veterans preference, it's extremely difficult to get a job. The whole point of PMF is that you're supposed to use the designation to shop around at various agencies and complete rotations. It's next to impossible to get a job as a civilian via random applications to agencies. You need to intern or otherwise have a strong connection pulling for you, if you're not a veteran. PMF will help a veteran candidate stand out.

2. Dwindling budgets: For many hiring mangers, PMF is actually seen as a bad thing in this era of tightening budgets. PMF forces the agencies to give you promotions and raises on a set schedule without much flexibility. Why hire a PMF at a higher salary and guaranteed raises, when I can hire another new grad for cheaper and gives me more flexibility with my budget into the future? During times of shrinking budgets, the PMF guidelines act as a perverse incentive to NOT hire the best candidate. That's bureaucratic efficiency for you.

This post ignores a major reason people at agencies hire through PMF: the normal hiring preferences for veterans and current federal employees don't apply and the hiring rules are much less restrictive overall. As a result, agencies looking to hire can actually choose who they want to hire by hiring a PMF rather than posting to USAJobs. There is a preference for veterans through PMF hiring but it is not as strong as for publicly posted fed positions -- I know lots of PMFs with good jobs who aren't veterans. I'm a current PMF who has now worked at two different agencies. Both agencies pretty much only hire from the PMF program for GS 9 or 11 type positions -- it's virtually impossible for a non-PMF to get hired into one of those jobs.

There are also no forced raises or promotions. After 2 years you do have to be converted into a permanent position, but it doesn't have to be at a higher grade. Promotions are based on the agency's criteria.

It's true that many agencies have budget crunches and, as a result, aren't hiring many new PMFs. But they're not hiring into other positions either -- that's not a problem with the PMF program, it's a government-wide reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated grad school in 2011 and many of my friends received PMF. In fact, our program is one of the largest recipients of PMF awards (upwards of 35 in my graduating class of 300).

At this point, it's a fairly useless designation if you're a civilian. Two reasons:

1. Veterans preference: the only people PMF can actually help is veterans. If you don't have veterans preference, it's extremely difficult to get a job. The whole point of PMF is that you're supposed to use the designation to shop around at various agencies and complete rotations. It's next to impossible to get a job as a civilian via random applications to agencies. You need to intern or otherwise have a strong connection pulling for you, if you're not a veteran. PMF will help a veteran candidate stand out.

2. Dwindling budgets: For many hiring mangers, PMF is actually seen as a bad thing in this era of tightening budgets. PMF forces the agencies to give you promotions and raises on a set schedule without much flexibility. Why hire a PMF at a higher salary and guaranteed raises, when I can hire another new grad for cheaper and gives me more flexibility with my budget into the future? During times of shrinking budgets, the PMF guidelines act as a perverse incentive to NOT hire the best candidate. That's bureaucratic efficiency for you.

This post ignores a major reason people at agencies hire through PMF: the normal hiring preferences for veterans and current federal employees don't apply and the hiring rules are much less restrictive overall. As a result, agencies looking to hire can actually choose who they want to hire by hiring a PMF rather than posting to USAJobs. There is a preference for veterans through PMF hiring but it is not as strong as for publicly posted fed positions -- I know lots of PMFs with good jobs who aren't veterans. I'm a current PMF who has now worked at two different agencies. Both agencies pretty much only hire from the PMF program for GS 9 or 11 type positions -- it's virtually impossible for a non-PMF to get hired into one of those jobs.

There are also no forced raises or promotions. After 2 years you do have to be converted into a permanent position, but it doesn't have to be at a higher grade. Promotions are based on the agency's criteria.

It's true that many agencies have budget crunches and, as a result, aren't hiring many new PMFs. But they're not hiring into other positions either -- that's not a problem with the PMF program, it's a government-wide reality.

Thank you for correcting me. It seems that this thread doesn't have a ton of current PMFs responding (mostly people who did it 10+ years ago), so I was trying to pass along the recent tidbits of info that friends gave to me as they went through the process.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone speak about the hiring/response times in this program after you have interviewed? I have had two interviews weeks ago and have not heard anything new. I asked one person if she had any information on whether she had an update, and she said no, which I hope means she is still considering me for a position.

[Anonymous]

Hi there. I was a 2010 PMF and am now hiring PMFs for my office. If you haven't heard back, follow up. Likely the hiring folks got busy on something else and hiring just isn't their top priority. If you get another offer, let them know and that will speed their decisionmaking.

[Anonymous]

Program is a joke. Just sets you up for a job for life on the Fed government. No real world skills gained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Program is a joke. Just sets you up for a job for life on the Fed government. No real world skills gained.

Does writing complete sentences count as a real world skill? Put that on your to do list!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Program is a joke. Just sets you up for a job for life on the Fed government. No real world skills gained.

Does writing complete sentences count as a real world skill? Put that on your to do list!

Oh did I offend the PMI Fellow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Program is a joke. Just sets you up for a job for life on the Fed government. No real world skills gained.

Does writing complete sentences count as a real world skill? Put that on your to do list!

Oh did I offend the PMI Fellow?

Considering that you wrote "the program is a joke" twice on the same thread and seem a little weirdly bitter and don't even know the current name of the program, maybe you are the one who is offended/has an issue?