Anyone else get tired of loving a child who can be hard to love?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op: i am in your exact same shoes. i would pursue more therapies, like OT or even private play-based therapy, but i cannot afford it. i make do with what i've learned from several parenting books. and i just try to survive it. it's an awful thing to say about a child's life, or, actually, both of our lives, but it's true. i am pretty unhappy most of the time when i am with my child.

other parents, one thing that really helps is to not be judgmental about the difficult child's behavior or the parenting. it may seem to you like it's the parenting, but PLEASE believe me when i say that it is not.

other parents can really make or break my day sometimes. i know some people feel uncomfortable saying something "negative" about a child, but i actually usually feel relieved and supported when another mom says "wow, your daughter can be really challenging." yes, she can. it's true!

[/quote

The happiest parents I know, are the ones that just don't try to be everything their kid wants them to be. They set date nights. Go to the movies, get a babysitter, have no problem leaving the house even when little ones don't want them to, say no to their kids with out the least bit of guilt. They hug their kids and nurture and love, but the boundaries they draw are clear with no empty threats, and it's a more peaceful environment. They take the guilt away from raising their kids and so do we. It's amazing how much can be accomplished and you won't feel resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? I live in Arlington. My son was (and can still be) difficult to manage, VERY hard to love (although I couldn't say it out loud or even to myself). his daycare providers said get him checked out by the county. He now has an IEP (Individual Education plan; something that has to occur through your county - a huge process) and is with people (therapists) in a special preschool who have heped guide him and have really made great strides in his behavior.

In my heart I believe he may just be growing out of it, but I do believe these early interventions helped immensely.

My friend works in the Emotional Disturbances sub-school of a local high school. She's involved in the IEPs the PP mentioned above. I agree with what PP says. Please seek help for your child like she did. There are professionals like my friend who deal only with these kind of children and should certainly be able to help you. I don't know much about the process except that unfortunately there's a lot of red tape involved, but my friend and others like her are really dedicated to these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, you are making an assumption about the child in question, let's call her "Laura". In your view, the assumption goes like this.

"Laura" is saying nasty things about me in front of her friends. "Laura" has control over what she says, and she is capable of not saying nasty things, if she wants to. She is also capable of learning cause and effect -- that if she says nasty things about me in front of her friends, she no longer gets to play with her friends.

Therefore, all I have to do is, with consistency, teach her a lesson. I need to "nip this behavior in the bud" and teach her that saying nasty things gets her nowhere. Then she will learn.

So, if I consistently remove access to her friends every time she says nasty things then she will learn that she must control what she says around her friends.

The type of "natural consequences" outlined above DOES work for many children.

However, it does NOT work for SOME children. Some children:

1) do not have control over whether they say thing or stay quiet;
2) are not able to stop saying nasty things if they open their mouths;
3) are not able to remember the consequences from last time, in order to influence what they do in the future.

Since you, PP, are on the outside, you really don't know what the deal is, with this child "Laura". You don't know what is causing ths behavior.

It is very nice of you to offer your opinion as to what will work for"Laura's" nanny, to get her to stop saying nasty things about her in front of her friends. But be aware that your opinion may be, pretty much, worthless to the person who posted about the child, since you do not have all the facts.

What is true for YOUR child, may very well not be true for another person's child.

Why does is always have to turn into this "oh no, we are controlling our children to much". We aren't giving them free reign to express their feelings. Come on, it's not ok, for a child to refer to her nanny as a slave, and continue to have that conversation with her friends. Call it controlling then, but we do teach our kids that somethings are acceptable in the way we speak to people and about people. They can express themselves all they want, but if they cross the line, it's not being a martyr to real them back in and say, "I don't think so. I have a more laid back household because of it, and so do my friends.

Nope, you completely misunderstand the point.

It is NOT "OK" for a child to refer to her nanny as a slave.

However, in this situation as the nany describes it, it certainly sounds as though the child she is caring for has certain exceptional differences about her, that make her VERY different from the average child. So what you may think is true for all children, just may not be true, for this particular child.

In particular, the child may have extreme difficulty controlling what she says. Think severe Tourette's syndrome, for example. Or the child may have severe difficulty learning from, remembering, and anticipating consequences. You could remove them from a playdate 100 times for saying a bad word, and on the 101st playdate, they would still say the bad word. It's not that they don't care, they just weren't able to learn the lesson the way you were teaching it to them. They need a different approach.

I am very thankful that you have apparently normal children, who do learn the normal way. Heaven forbid you should have a child who is learning disabled in a severe way -- or autistic -- unless you are willing to understand that not every child is like yours.

[Anonymous]

All I can say, OP, is that if you (as his mommy) don't love him unconditionally (which clearly you do) and teach him that he can be loved unconditionally, then who will? It may not seem this way, but I'm hopeful that he will improve. Keep in mind that 3.5 year olds are generally very difficult. Hopefully he will mellow out at least a little when he is older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids are only going to keep doing what we put up with. Set the tone early. It's not just, we get what we get. There is alot we have to do with, as far as how easy or hard parenting is.

the only thing is that I'M THE NANNY.

[Anonymous]

We worked with her answering in the same tone.
We've been doing it for the past 2 years. Little by little it's working.
She used to call me "big a$$" and "fat a$$". Her mother sat her on the chouch and said ONE DAY YOU'LL LOOK BACK AND WISH YOU HAD AN A$$ AS BEAUTIFULL AS HERS!"
The girl didn't answer and went straight to her room.
I started ignoring her as much as I could. NO AFFECTION AT ALL. Just basic necessities as walking her to the bus stop, feeding her and checking homework. no "good job" or "how was your day" for weeks and weeks.

after a few months mom came to me to say that the gilr had a dream:
I drove them to the mall and I left without her. She knocked on the window and I looked to the other side and started the car. She was calling yelling my name and I didn't look and dove away.
mom said she was TERRIFIED!!!

after that dream she started to recognize how bad it hurts what she does to people.

now a days, not that she won't be mean but at least she thinks about what she said/did and sometimes she even apologizes...


I love that family that's why I didn't quit my job. I'm part of the family and I won't turn my back on them because of this problem. We're a team working to change her and make her a succesfull/happy individual.

[Anonymous]

OP, hang in there. My cousin used to be a very difficult little girl. Biting, kicking, spilling hot coffee on me and then laughing when I was in pain....this was around 3 1/2 years old. As an 18 year old young woman, she is COMPLETELY different now. Can't believe it is the same kid. I don't know how she changed, but she did. Developed empathy, became sweet and loving, etc.

I think children do not behave so beyond the pale for no reason. Be it biological, psychological, behavioral, etc., they have some challenge that is making them act out. Even if they seem they are enjoying it, they aren't. They are often self-loathing and in pain, but mask it as sadism. Very, very few kids are actually sadists, most just need help.

From some of these "set limits" posts, I think the average person doesn't understand that such extreme behavior is almost a type of personality disability, if you will. Treating their challenging behavior as a type of disorder (as you might autism) and giving it the respect and treatment it needs seems to be in order. Changing your expectations about your child is the hardest part, but OP sounds like she has a good perspective....she is just worn out.

You deserve to be worn out, OP, your life isn't easy. Take some time to yourself to just have some pity and respect for yourself as a mom. We don't choose how our kids will act, but it sounds like you have a good perspective on your child. Make sure to take some time for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You deserve to be worn out, OP, your life isn't easy. Take some time to yourself to just have some pity and respect for yourself as a mom. We don't choose how our kids will act, but it sounds like you have a good perspective on your child. Make sure to take some time for yourself.

ITA. Hugs to you, OP, and to the others dealing with children with these severe issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the 8:58 poster - First of all, the woman you are responding to is the child's nanny not her mother so "be a mom" is not the right answer. Second, I don't think you are taking to heart what the people with these problems are saying in this thread. The discipline you describe would be useful and successful for a child with a more ordinary temperment, it would have little impact on a child with the more extreme sort of personality that is being described by those seeking advice here. While I don't agree with some of what this nanny has said about the child - for instance I most certainly do not agree with this nanny that the child is not suffering or that the child takes real pleasure in causing others pain - the child is most certainly suffering and needs help and the fact that she laughs at certain things does not in any way mean she is experiencing real pleasure. However, I sympathize b/c one of my three children is difficult to parent (I would not personally say "difficult to love" b/c for whatever reason my attachment to my difficult child is, if anything, stronger then to my other children - and I would not ever say that out loud (or as a prior poster noted, even probably to myself)) and I know what challenges everyone here who has described their problems here is facing. Providing the ordinary discipline and consistency advice to people with this sort of issue is not going to solve their problem.

Then the nanny should have said bye to the friends.

PP, you are making an assumption about the child in question, let's call her "Laura". In your view, the assumption goes like this.

"Laura" is saying nasty things about me in front of her friends. "Laura" has control over what she says, and she is capable of not saying nasty things, if she wants to. She is also capable of learning cause and effect -- that if she says nasty things about me in front of her friends, she no longer gets to play with her friends.

Therefore, all I have to do is, with consistency, teach her a lesson. I need to "nip this behavior in the bud" and teach her that saying nasty things gets her nowhere. Then she will learn.

So, if I consistently remove access to her friends every time she says nasty things then she will learn that she must control what she says around her friends.

The type of "natural consequences" outlined above DOES work for many children.

However, it does NOT work for SOME children. Some children:

1) do not have control over whether they say thing or stay quiet;
2) are not able to stop saying nasty things if they open their mouths;
3) are not able to remember the consequences from last time, in order to influence what they do in the future.

Since you, PP, are on the outside, you really don't know what the deal is, with this child "Laura". You don't know what is causing ths behavior.

It is very nice of you to offer your opinion as to what will work for"Laura's" nanny, to get her to stop saying nasty things about her in front of her friends. But be aware that your opinion may be, pretty much, worthless to the person who posted about the child, since you do not have all the facts.

What is true for YOUR child, may very well not be true for another person's child.

Why does is always have to turn into this "oh no, we are controlling our children to much". We aren't giving them free reign to express their feelings. Come on, it's not ok, for a child to refer to her nanny as a slave, and continue to have that conversation with her friends. Call it controlling then, but we do teach our kids that somethings are acceptable in the way we speak to people and about people. They can express themselves all they want, but if they cross the line, it's not being a martyr to real them back in and say, "I don't think so. I have a more laid back household because of it, and so do my friends.

Agree -and if this doesn't help "Laura", at least her friends will know that is not ok (in case they decide go out there repeating such nasty behavior).

[Anonymous]

This is for OP: Our DS is also 3.5 and going through what seems like way more than a typical 'terrible threes' - severe oppositional behaviour, hitting, kicking, running away, not paying the slightest bit of attention. Timeouts seem to mean nothing to him; tantrums left unchecked can easily last 20-30 minutes. Power struggles with a capital "P".

For our family, there were two issues: his bad behaviour and my poor reactions. I raised my voice and started yelling. Ugh. It was awful, and I got to a point where I couldn't stand being around him and hated myself for both my feelings and heated reactions.

I started to see a counselor as an outlet for my own anger stuff; and also to bounce parenting ideas off of. It has helped me immensely.

To deal with our son, one thing that we've recently implemented is the socratic approach. It has really helped us all gain our sanity, and maybe it could help you too. It works like this:

Instead of issuing a directive [Stop jumping on the chair!] which is typically ignored at our home, we use targeted questions to walk himself to a behaviour change. Eg. Hold his hands and speak softly: Are we supposed to jump on chairs? What are you doing right now? Don't you think you should stop? He is no longer arguing with us, but rather with himself; it just kills the power issue.

For totally unacceptable behaviour, he still lands timeouts. Not so much as punishment (as I said before, they never seem to do much for him), but more to give him (and me) separate spaces to calm down. Then, when he's calm, we do the same thing so that he is aware of exactly what the problem was and alternative ways to fix it: You slapped your friend. Is that something we do? Why did you do that? What are some ways to get to play with the toy without hitting?

DH & I are also consciously creating more time for floor time and other classic approaches to dealing with tough kids.

A book that I found useful was, "Effective Parenting for the Hard to manage Child" - Degangi and Kendall (they're local therapists).

Good luck. It isn't easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the 8:58 poster - First of all, the woman you are responding to is the child's nanny not her mother so "be a mom" is not the right answer. Second, I don't think you are taking to heart what the people with these problems are saying in this thread. The discipline you describe would be useful and successful for a child with a more ordinary temperment, it would have little impact on a child with the more extreme sort of personality that is being described by those seeking advice here. While I don't agree with some of what this nanny has said about the child - for instance I most certainly do not agree with this nanny that the child is not suffering or that the child takes real pleasure in causing others pain - the child is most certainly suffering and needs help and the fact that she laughs at certain things does not in any way mean she is experiencing real pleasure. However, I sympathize b/c one of my three children is difficult to parent (I would not personally say "difficult to love" b/c for whatever reason my attachment to my difficult child is, if anything, stronger then to my other children - and I would not ever say that out loud (or as a prior poster noted, even probably to myself)) and I know what challenges everyone here who has described their problems here is facing. Providing the ordinary discipline and consistency advice to people with this sort of issue is not going to solve their problem.

Then the nanny should have said bye to the friends.

PP, you are making an assumption about the child in question, let's call her "Laura". In your view, the assumption goes like this.

"Laura" is saying nasty things about me in front of her friends. "Laura" has control over what she says, and she is capable of not saying nasty things, if she wants to. She is also capable of learning cause and effect -- that if she says nasty things about me in front of her friends, she no longer gets to play with her friends.

Therefore, all I have to do is, with consistency, teach her a lesson. I need to "nip this behavior in the bud" and teach her that saying nasty things gets her nowhere. Then she will learn.

So, if I consistently remove access to her friends every time she says nasty things then she will learn that she must control what she says around her friends.

The type of "natural consequences" outlined above DOES work for many children.

However, it does NOT work for SOME children. Some children:

1) do not have control over whether they say thing or stay quiet;
2) are not able to stop saying nasty things if they open their mouths;
3) are not able to remember the consequences from last time, in order to influence what they do in the future.

Since you, PP, are on the outside, you really don't know what the deal is, with this child "Laura". You don't know what is causing ths behavior.

It is very nice of you to offer your opinion as to what will work for"Laura's" nanny, to get her to stop saying nasty things about her in front of her friends. But be aware that your opinion may be, pretty much, worthless to the person who posted about the child, since you do not have all the facts.

What is true for YOUR child, may very well not be true for another person's child.

Why does is always have to turn into this "oh no, we are controlling our children to much". We aren't giving them free reign to express their feelings. Come on, it's not ok, for a child to refer to her nanny as a slave, and continue to have that conversation with her friends. Call it controlling then, but we do teach our kids that somethings are acceptable in the way we speak to people and about people. They can express themselves all they want, but if they cross the line, it's not being a martyr to real them back in and say, "I don't think so. I have a more laid back household because of it, and so do my friends.

Agree -and if this doesn't help "Laura", at least her friends will know that is not ok (in case they decide go out there repeating such nasty behavior).

Disagree. The punishement won't help "Laura" AND i(if the behavior is beyond her control, and the punishment is applied consistently) it will also remove her from the possibility of ever being with her friends.

[Anonymous]

so what would you do?