Let Detroit Go Bankrupt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both Repbulicans and Democrats have completely let us down with out of control spending. Am I the only one here who worries about passing down trillions of dollars in debt to my children and grandchildren? The U.S. is going broke, folks.

You are NOT the only one, but it sure seems like it.

F*ck Detroit. I hate American cars. The interiors are junk, they guzzle gas, the innards are Sh*t, and they are UGLY. There are dozens of reasons why Detroit is a failure. I've had the same Honda since 1996 and its still chugging along.

Detroit DESERVES to fall. Out of hard times comes innovation.

This is just like the recent news. Of the mortgage loan modification that have been done this year, 50% of the borrowers are back in jeopardy of losing thier homes again. They were never cut out for home ownership in hte FIRST place.

The government and our basic institutions are making poor choices right and left. No doubt that this will not be the same USA in 10 years, the golden age is over. We'll look back on the prior days with nostalgia.

BOTH the democratic congress and the current president are OUT OF CONTROL. There is no change comming people, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both Repbulicans and Democrats have completely let us down with out of control spending. Am I the only one here who worries about passing down trillions of dollars in debt to my children and grandchildren? The U.S. is going broke, folks.

You are NOT the only one, but it sure seems like it.

F*ck Detroit. I hate American cars. The interiors are junk, they guzzle gas, the innards are Sh*t, and they are UGLY. There are dozens of reasons why Detroit is a failure. I've had the same Honda since 1996 and its still chugging along.

Detroit DESERVES to fall. Out of hard times comes innovation.

This is just like the recent news. Of the mortgage loan modification that have been done this year, 50% of the borrowers are back in jeopardy of losing thier homes again. They were never cut out for home ownership in hte FIRST place.

The government and our basic institutions are making poor choices right and left. No doubt that this will not be the same USA in 10 years, the golden age is over. We'll look back on the prior days with nostalgia.

BOTH the democratic congress and the current president are OUT OF CONTROL. There is no change comming people, sorry.

I agree with thise post about the ugly design, inside and outside and the unreliable mechanics of the engines of American cars. It's been like this for at least 20+ years. It never occurred to the big 3 that in addition to reliable engines, the esthetic design of cars is a big selling point? GM's Wagoner has got to go, along with his old fart cronies.

By the "current president" do you mean Bush? Though a Dem, I agree with the Republicans on this one. No bailout for the auto industry.

So now they have a lifeline until March. Then what? If they go bankrupt after March, then tax payers lose all the money that's been lent to them, which will be $40 Billion by then. It's like giving spoiled children more candy in the hopes that it will sweeten them up, but it just spoils them more and increases their sense of entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both Repbulicans and Democrats have completely let us down with out of control spending. Am I the only one here who worries about passing down trillions of dollars in debt to my children and grandchildren? The U.S. is going broke, folks.

You are NOT the only one, but it sure seems like it.

F*ck Detroit. I hate American cars. The interiors are junk, they guzzle gas, the innards are Sh*t, and they are UGLY. There are dozens of reasons why Detroit is a failure. I've had the same Honda since 1996 and its still chugging along.

Detroit DESERVES to fall. Out of hard times comes innovation.

This is just like the recent news. Of the mortgage loan modification that have been done this year, 50% of the borrowers are back in jeopardy of losing thier homes again. They were never cut out for home ownership in hte FIRST place.

The government and our basic institutions are making poor choices right and left. No doubt that this will not be the same USA in 10 years, the golden age is over. We'll look back on the prior days with nostalgia.

BOTH the democratic congress and the current president are OUT OF CONTROL. There is no change comming people, sorry.

I agree with thise post about the ugly design, inside and outside and the unreliable mechanics of the engines of American cars. It's been like this for at least 20+ years. It never occurred to the big 3 that in addition to reliable engines, the esthetic design of cars is a big selling point? GM's Wagoner has got to go, along with his old fart cronies.

By the "current president" do you mean Bush? Though a Dem, I agree with the Republicans on this one. No bailout for the auto industry.

So now they have a lifeline until March. Then what? If they go bankrupt after March, then tax payers lose all the money that's been lent to them, which will be $40 Billion by then. It's like giving spoiled children more candy in the hopes that it will sweeten them up, but it just spoils them more and increases their sense of entitlement.

By current president, I mean Bush. He spends worse than a democrat. Although, I completely disagree with conservative Republican on social issues, I have been 100% on board with them on their comments on the bailouts. Particularly astute and the only one who has not lost his mind is Shelby from Alabama and I have been GLUED to the hearings since the the first bail out was proposed. He seems to be one of the few voices concerned about the deficit. He's trying to gain support to fillibuster the auto bailout and I say GOOD JOB.

Considering the democratic almost super majority and their overwheming support for these bail outs, this is going to turn out to be a huge mess. We are just digging deeper and deeper. What happened to democrats being for "the people" they are so cozy with the biggest of big business. I listen to C-SPAN each morning and the MAJORITY of callers calling into the program are not supportive of these bail outs. Some people are downright mad as hell.

[Anonymous]

From my favorite blogger:

Money Talks, But Who’s Listening?
Dec.10, 2008 in Economy, Should Be Slapped Leave a Comment
First this~


Toyota-GM Tie for No. 1 in Global Sales

By Michelle Krebs

Toyota and General Motors have tied for the No. 1 spot for global vehicle sales, according to sales figures reported by both companies.

GM, which has held the top spot by itself for 76 years, said Wednesday morning that it had sold 9,369,524 million vehicles globally in 2007, according to preliminary sales figures.

Toyota reported last week it sold 9.37 million vehicles last year. A company spokesman said the automaker will not report figures in any further detail. (more…)

Now this~

GM reports record loss, offers buyouts
by The Associated Press

DETROIT (AP) _ General Motors Corp. reported the largest annual loss for an automotive company Tuesday and said it is making a new round of buyback offers to U.S. hourly workers as it struggles to turn around its North American business amid a weak economy.

GM said it lost $38.7 billion in 2007. The loss largely was due to a third-quarter charge related to unused tax credits.

The Detroit-based automaker also on Tuesday said it was offering a new round of buyouts to all 74,000 of its U.S. hourly workers who are represented by the United Auto Workers. (more…)

How did Toyota perform in 2007?

Toyota sees record ‘07 profit
Automaker takes in $4 billion in last 3 months, expects $14.9 billion in earnings for the year.

Unfortunately I do not have Toyota’s final numbers, but the bottom line is that they finished the year with a profit. In the meantime, folks are wheeling American cars at the altar to pray for government intervention.

MADNESS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my favorite blogger:

...
GM, which has held the top spot by itself for 76 years, said Wednesday morning that it had sold 9,369,524 million vehicles globally in 2007, according to preliminary sales figures.
...

That's over nine trillion vehicles. No wonder we have global warming!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both Repbulicans and Democrats have completely let us down with out of control spending. Am I the only one here who worries about passing down trillions of dollars in debt to my children and grandchildren? The U.S. is going broke, folks.

You are NOT the only one, but it sure seems like it.

F*ck Detroit. I hate American cars. The interiors are junk, they guzzle gas, the innards are Sh*t, and they are UGLY. There are dozens of reasons why Detroit is a failure. I've had the same Honda since 1996 and its still chugging along.

Detroit DESERVES to fall. Out of hard times comes innovation.

This is just like the recent news. Of the mortgage loan modification that have been done this year, 50% of the borrowers are back in jeopardy of losing thier homes again. They were never cut out for home ownership in hte FIRST place.

The government and our basic institutions are making poor choices right and left. No doubt that this will not be the same USA in 10 years, the golden age is over. We'll look back on the prior days with nostalgia.

BOTH the democratic congress and the current president are OUT OF CONTROL. There is no change comming people, sorry.

I agree with thise post about the ugly design, inside and outside and the unreliable mechanics of the engines of American cars. It's been like this for at least 20+ years. It never occurred to the big 3 that in addition to reliable engines, the esthetic design of cars is a big selling point? GM's Wagoner has got to go, along with his old fart cronies.

By the "current president" do you mean Bush? Though a Dem, I agree with the Republicans on this one. No bailout for the auto industry.

So now they have a lifeline until March. Then what? If they go bankrupt after March, then tax payers lose all the money that's been lent to them, which will be $40 Billion by then. It's like giving spoiled children more candy in the hopes that it will sweeten them up, but it just spoils them more and increases their sense of entitlement.

Considering the democratic almost super majority and their overwheming support for these bail outs, this is going to turn out to be a huge mess. We are just digging deeper and deeper. What happened to democrats being for "the people" they are so cozy with the biggest of big business. I listen to C-SPAN each morning and the MAJORITY of callers calling into the program are not supportive of these bail outs. Some people are downright mad as hell.

Isn't it more making good on a pact with the devil, i.e. Unions voted Democratic so now the Dmes have to deliver.

F*ck Detroit and the Big 3.

[Anonymous]

Listened again to CSPAN this AM, this time open phones. Everyone was calling in on this bail out, even the auto workers. Dems, Repubs, independants overwhelmingly were against it. A bunch of

Barney Frank gets on my very last nerve. That guy is an imbicile. He is NOT qualified to offer any economic input considering his hand in this housing debacle. His support of the catastrophic lending schemes is CLEARLY docmented all over YouTube. His voters in Boston, must have had their brains frozen in the cold. Congress is full of a bunch of bungling clowns. I'll be happy to be very liberal on my itemized deductions this year.

Americans are still sleep at the wheel. The excitement for Obama was superficial a reason to bitch and party and wave around pom-poms. I can't believe the mismanagement of the 350 BILLION of TARP funds and now their dishing out cash, like Snickers on Halloween. If anyone were to sit around an actually listen to what these clowns were saying in these hearings for the last few weeks, instead of posting a bunch of links to bloggers and editorials with an agenda, they would be in an outrage.

Fu*k the big 3. They can just fall off the face of the earth. I'll be happy to see more Honda and Toyota plants here, they buy parts too, the suppliers will be JUST fine. People will still buy cars, we still love cars, just not American ones.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Fu*k the big 3. They can just fall off the face of the earth. I'll be happy to see more Honda and Toyota plants here, they buy parts too, the suppliers will be JUST fine. People will still buy cars, we still love cars, just not American ones.

A lot of people are getting fucked because of people who think like you. I wouldn't count on buying too many Hondas and Toyotas the way things look this morning. Toyota's stock is down 10 percent in Asian markets. Honda's is down 12 percent. The dollar is at a 13 year low against the yen.

Suppliers are not going to be "just fine". They have huge outstanding debts to the Big 3. Who is going to pay those? Not Honda and Toyota.

Leave it to the Republicans to toss a drowning man an anchor. We are in the midst of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes and people like you are gleefully adding hundreds of thousands of unemployed to the mix.

I've said from the beginning that the Republicans were after the UAW and nothing else. That has always been their target. The UAW was willing to accept so-called wage parity in 2011, but the Republicans demanded it in 2009. Yeah, let's stimulate the economy by cutting wages. That makes sense. Where were the demands for wage parity for executives? How come Republicans only worry about blue collar wages being too high?

Sweden, Korea, Japan, France, the UK, everyone else is bailing out their auto industry. In this country, we just fuck ourselves. Great job.

[Anonymous]

This uber liberal hates UAW too. Why won't they take a pay cut????? Let's cut of our nose to spite our face.... brilliant.

[Anonymous]

This uber liberal hates UAW too. Why won't they take a pay cut????? Let's cut of our nose to spite our face.... brilliant.

This is just factually not accurate. The UAW has taken pay and benefits cuts many times over the years in the interests of the company. Look what happened in 2005, for example. The Daimler-Chrysler union accepted unprecedented, MIDCONTRACT pay and benefits cuts to keep the company going.

Too bad the executive teams didn't feel similarly obliged.

[Anonymous]

The UAW might need to take even bigger, huge cuts.
They need to face the music.
If it all goes under, it's their fault too.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fu*k the big 3. They can just fall off the face of the earth. I'll be happy to see more Honda and Toyota plants here, they buy parts too, the suppliers will be JUST fine. People will still buy cars, we still love cars, just not American ones.

A lot of people are getting fucked because of people who think like you. I wouldn't count on buying too many Hondas and Toyotas the way things look this morning. Toyota's stock is down 10 percent in Asian markets. Honda's is down 12 percent. The dollar is at a 13 year low against the yen.

Suppliers are not going to be "just fine". They have huge outstanding debts to the Big 3. Who is going to pay those? Not Honda and Toyota.

Leave it to the Republicans to toss a drowning man an anchor. We are in the midst of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes and people like you are gleefully adding hundreds of thousands of unemployed to the mix.

I've said from the beginning that the Republicans were after the UAW and nothing else. That has always been their target. The UAW was willing to accept so-called wage parity in 2011, but the Republicans demanded it in 2009. Yeah, let's stimulate the economy by cutting wages. That makes sense. Where were the demands for wage parity for executives? How come Republicans only worry about blue collar wages being too high?

Sweden, Korea, Japan, France, the UK, everyone else is bailing out their auto industry. In this country, we just fuck ourselves. Great job.

It is irresponsible for the auto industry to get a bail out. They were in trouble long before the meltdown. Their problems go much deeper than the UAW (which BTW now just screwed themselves) Why give money to zombie companies who don't even come to Washington with a BUSINESS PLAN when begging for hand outs? The arrogance. Listening AGAIN to CPAN this morning and UAW members themselves were saying Detroit should not be bailed out. One member saying that when the put in their "production quota" for the day many of the autoworkers do things like sit down and read a book or take naps. He pointed to Gettlefinger as being the problem. I'm not saying this, one of the UAW callers calling in from Michigan said this.

jsteele-Who's paying for this bail out? Our kids-that's who. This president and congress have their spending out of control and thank God we have a balance of power to keep these husslers in check. The big 3 need to get creative, this is what happens in tough times. I'm sure there will be some congressional intervention AFTER chapter 11. The big 3 are not unique, many US companies are on the brink, how do you propose we bail everyone out? What about the guy who sells advertising space? What about the retail worker at Macy's? What about the thousands of Home Depot or Lowes workers, since surely one of those companies will have to go, as there's not room for both of them?

Your unwavering support along partisan lines is so predictable, just a bunch of editorial regurgitation from the Daily Kos.

[Anonymous]

The UAW might need to take even bigger, huge cuts.
They need to face the music.
If it all goes under, it's their fault too.

Tell me: how many pay cuts are you willing to take before you think it is enough?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele-Who's paying for this bail out? Our kids-that's who. This president and congress have their spending out of control and thank God we have a balance of power to keep these husslers in check. The big 3 need to get creative, this is what happens in tough times. I'm sure there will be some congressional intervention AFTER chapter 11. The big 3 are not unique, many US companies are on the brink, how do you propose we bail everyone out? What about the guy who sells advertising space? What about the retail worker at Macy's? What about the thousands of Home Depot or Lowes workers, since surely one of those companies will have to go, as there's not room for both of them?

If you think bankruptcy is going to be cost-free, you are dreaming. There will be unemployment costs, more visits to emergency rooms when health insurance is lost, a host of social problems, etc. The question is not who is paying, but what are they paying for? Getting creative after Chapter 11 is too late. The time for creativity is now. You don't set the trajectory of a bowling ball after its left your hand. You do it before letting go. Today, Congress and the President could set conditions on the Big 3. They could demand reforms, negotiate pay cuts, set goals, whatever. Once Chapter 11 hits, its up to a bankruptcy judge and the market. Who knows what will happen?

If you think that Home Depot is in trouble now, wait to see how things work with several hundred thousand more unemployed customers. When manhy companies are on the brink is the worst time to blow up such a large industry. Republicans are great at destroying. That's no surprise. What is sad is the number of Democrats willing to go along with the destruction of so many jobs.

On the other hand, the Senate Republicans were probably aware that Bush would step in with TARP funds. So, it was all a bit of political theater. So, we will probably still get a bailout, just not one into which the Congress has any input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The UAW might need to take even bigger, huge cuts.
They need to face the music.
If it all goes under, it's their fault too.

Tell me: how many pay cuts are you willing to take before you think it is enough?

the choices are pay cut or no job.