Dartmouth ...Oh the partying!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey Dartmouth Alum,
Hanover called. The development office wants to know where it can send back the $50 you gave last year to the annual fund? C'mon, people, Dartmouth is NOT like the other Ivies that tend to be populated by large numbers of geeks -- thank goodness. Excessive drinking and partying has been an American college tradition dating back multiple generations. If that "scene" is not for you or your darling offspring, then you have a few choices available. I think Dartmouth is trying to balance a lot of interests and not just legislate away "problems" that may actually be learning experiences for the student body.

Dartmouth alum here. This poster above is a perfect example of the attitude that I was describing in my own previous post. I am glad he posted, since he proves my point. Basically this poster is saying that excessive drinking has been around forever, the college culture should not change just because some people don't like it, and if you don't belong in this drinking culture, then you have other colleges you can go to. No intellectuals or "geeks" need apply. He is saying the College does not want your money or your support if you aren't going to go along with the dominant partying culture there.

There are plenty of alums and current students who would disagree with this guy, but his tradition-bound, anti-intellectual outlook is a dominant one on campus, and always has been. So much for real diversity.

[Anonymous]

My strongest and most positive memories about Dartmouth were actually about academics and non-partying pursuits, but I also had a lot of fun while I was there.

There was alcohol and there was excess, but I think 12:05 hit the nail on the head -- it wasn't materially different than any other of my friends' schools ("There was free-flowing alcohol combined with young adults making questionable decisions at every college I visited as an undergrad.") and if anything the party scene was safer because it was on campus and everyone walks everywhere (as opposed to my UVA or Georgetown friends in off-campus apartments and driving drunk).

The Greek scene as Dartmouth is also a lot more diverse -- in terms of people who do and don't drink, and do and don't fit conventional sorority or fraternity stereotypes -- than at other scools I saw at the time, where a smaller percentage of the campus was into the Greek scene but did it much more intensely and uniformly if they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The Greek scene as Dartmouth is also a lot more diverse -- in terms of people who do and don't drink, and do and don't fit conventional sorority or fraternity stereotypes -- than at other scools I saw at the time, where a smaller percentage of the campus was into the Greek scene but did it much more intensely and uniformly if they did.

Agree with this as well. I had friends at schools with much more rigid Greek scenes - members only allowed, dress codes, pervasive disgust of those who don't go Greek, rivalry to get into the right house prior to even showing up on campus your very first year, forced study hours so students could keep up the minimum GPA required to stay active, etc.

On the other hand my sorority at Dartmouth graduated Rhodes and Fulbright Scholars during my 3 years in the organization, and has subsequently graduated at least one college valedictorian that I can recall. You can't even join a house until you are a sophomore and it appears they are now going back to a policy that stood when I attended, first year students aren't allowed in Greek houses for their first month or so on campus. Nor are our houses truly residential - only a small fraction of the members actually live in, in some houses it is as few as 15 students living in a house whereas at big Greek schools, all members are required to live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My strongest and most positive memories about Dartmouth were actually about academics and non-partying pursuits, but I also had a lot of fun while I was there.

There was alcohol and there was excess, but I think 12:05 hit the nail on the head -- it wasn't materially different than any other of my friends' schools ("There was free-flowing alcohol combined with young adults making questionable decisions at every college I visited as an undergrad.") and if anything the party scene was safer because it was on campus and everyone walks everywhere (as opposed to my UVA or Georgetown friends in off-campus apartments and driving drunk).

The Greek scene as Dartmouth is also a lot more diverse -- in terms of people who do and don't drink, and do and don't fit conventional sorority or fraternity stereotypes -- than at other scools I saw at the time, where a smaller percentage of the campus was into the Greek scene but did it much more intensely and uniformly if they did.

This balanced approach is precisely why Dartmouth is an exceptional Ivy. There are aspects of going away to college that should not be uprooted. Learning how to manage one's life both academically and socially is essential to a successful undergraduate experience. Health and safety should not be forgotten, but letting the young adults figure out how to handle themselves socially is intrinsic to living successfully and independently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey Dartmouth Alum,
Hanover called. The development office wants to know where it can send back the $50 you gave last year to the annual fund? C'mon, people, Dartmouth is NOT like the other Ivies that tend to be populated by large numbers of geeks -- thank goodness. Excessive drinking and partying has been an American college tradition dating back multiple generations. If that "scene" is not for you or your darling offspring, then you have a few choices available. I think Dartmouth is trying to balance a lot of interests and not just legislate away "problems" that may actually be learning experiences for the student body.

Dartmouth alum here. This poster above is a perfect example of the attitude that I was describing in my own previous post. I am glad he posted, since he proves my point. Basically this poster is saying that excessive drinking has been around forever, the college culture should not change just because some people don't like it, and if you don't belong in this drinking culture, then you have other colleges you can go to. No intellectuals or "geeks" need apply. He is saying the College does not want your money or your support if you aren't going to go along with the dominant partying culture there.

There are plenty of alums and current students who would disagree with this guy, but his tradition-bound, anti-intellectual outlook is a dominant one on campus, and always has been. So much for real diversity.

Hey Dartmouth Alum,
Nice loyalty to your alma mater. In my experience, Dartmouth is relatively open about its problems and then tries to plot a course for the future while not forgetting the past. There are other Ivies that seem to revel in not having a party culture -- good for them. Dartmouth seems to be introspective about the Rolling Stone expose'. Yet, for some, anything less than outlawing the Greek system will be insufficient. By the way, I expect that there might be an intellectual out there who likes to party. Furthermore, I don't think anyone has said that college kids who party are kicked out of the intellectual class. Also, unless I missed something, there is not a prohibition against geeks at Dartmouth. Someone took you to task for your disparaging comments about the school. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Dartmouth alum here.

I love these posts. They are perfect because they expose how upset some Dartmouth alums get when someone "on the inside" criticizes the College. It is taken as a test of one's loyalty. For goodness sake, this is an institution, and it should be able to withstand some scrutiny. Don't take it personally. I am not criticizing your mother or grandmother.

I will say it again, the prevailing attitude at Dartmouth is that, above all else, one needs to LOVE the College---- or go elsewhere. You can see that attitude in these posts. For many alums there is no need to discuss or try to improve upon the campus situation, or to make the place truly welcoming to a genuine diversity of people. They like it just the way it is, because it "worked" for them.

There was a great article in The Dartmouth last year about this attitude. I will see if I can find the link.

[Anonymous]

Here's the view of a current student. Well-written and as accurate now as it was years ago. The middle section on the pressure to LOVE Dartmouth is relevant to this discussion.

http://thedartmouth.com/2013/05/01/opinion/mckay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Greek scene as Dartmouth is also a lot more diverse -- in terms of people who do and don't drink, and do and don't fit conventional sorority or fraternity stereotypes -- than at other scools I saw at the time, where a smaller percentage of the campus was into the Greek scene but did it much more intensely and uniformly if they did.

Agree with this as well. I had friends at schools with much more rigid Greek scenes - members only allowed, dress codes, pervasive disgust of those who don't go Greek, rivalry to get into the right house prior to even showing up on campus your very first year, forced study hours so students could keep up the minimum GPA required to stay active, etc.

On the other hand my sorority at Dartmouth graduated Rhodes and Fulbright Scholars during my 3 years in the organization, and has subsequently graduated at least one college valedictorian that I can recall. You can't even join a house until you are a sophomore and it appears they are now going back to a policy that stood when I attended, first year students aren't allowed in Greek houses for their first month or so on campus. Nor are our houses truly residential - only a small fraction of the members actually live in, in some houses it is as few as 15 students living in a house whereas at big Greek schools, all members are required to live in.




Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. The Greek life is so good for you and does great work. Group think will get you far in life. So tired of hearing why frats help the world.

[Anonymous]

Welp, I think the recent controversy about the Blood/Crips themed party brings this point home.

[Anonymous]

I spent four years in the late 90s as a non-greek teetotaler at Dartmouth and had a fantastic experience and did not feel in the least socially isolated. Socially there is plenty to do in Hanover whether or not you drink (colleges are inherently social environments no matter where they are), and I still went to plenty of Greek parties (most of which are open) without drinking. If anything, I'm sure the social scene is even milder now after rooms despite the sensationalist stories that crop up.

In academics and extracurricular opportunities as well as post-graduate positioning, Dartmouth was truly amazing. Folks cannot underestimate the value of a college that's a hybrid between a Liberal Arts College and a research university, with the cachet/network of an Ivy. The access Dartmouth undergrads have to faculty is undoubtedly unparalleled in the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spent four years in the late 90s as a non-greek teetotaler at Dartmouth and had a fantastic experience and did not feel in the least socially isolated. Socially there is plenty to do in Hanover whether or not you drink (colleges are inherently social environments no matter where they are), and I still went to plenty of Greek parties (most of which are open) without drinking. If anything, I'm sure the social scene is even milder now after rooms despite the sensationalist stories that crop up.

In academics and extracurricular opportunities as well as post-graduate positioning, Dartmouth was truly amazing. Folks cannot underestimate the value of a college that's a hybrid between a Liberal Arts College and a research university, with the cachet/network of an Ivy. The access Dartmouth undergrads have to faculty is undoubtedly unparalleled in the Ivy League.

Dartmouth would be a great school if it had more students like you. Why can't the frat boy booze loving losers just skip college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent four years in the late 90s as a non-greek teetotaler at Dartmouth and had a fantastic experience and did not feel in the least socially isolated. Socially there is plenty to do in Hanover whether or not you drink (colleges are inherently social environments no matter where they are), and I still went to plenty of Greek parties (most of which are open) without drinking. If anything, I'm sure the social scene is even milder now after rooms despite the sensationalist stories that crop up.

In academics and extracurricular opportunities as well as post-graduate positioning, Dartmouth was truly amazing. Folks cannot underestimate the value of a college that's a hybrid between a Liberal Arts College and a research university, with the cachet/network of an Ivy. The access Dartmouth undergrads have to faculty is undoubtedly unparalleled in the Ivy League.

Dartmouth would be a great school if it had more students like you. Why can't the frat boy booze loving losers just skip college.

An interesting rhetorical question, indeed. My question to you PP is this: What will you do when your little girl/little boy comes home from college (maybe one that charges $60k/year) and wants to enjoy some beers in the basement with friends? Are you going to stomp your feet and hold your breath -- withhold monetary support, maybe? Young people go to college to get an education and that may include some interludes of drunken behavior and debauchery. The fact that young people engage in such behavior at almost every college in the country means that the normative behavior includes those frat boy booze lovers you look to exclude. Be careful with the judgmental disdain, it has a way of coming back to bite you in the a$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth alum here. There is a sense from Day 1 when you arrive for orientation, and get indoctrinated into Dartmouth life at Moosilauke and around a Homecoming bonfire, that you better just LOVE the place like those who have gone before, and you better LOVE the wild and crazy parts of it. Or you are just not a true Big Green student. Alcohol is HUGE at Dartmouth. You don't have to drink, and many people don't, but the alcohol culture is pervasive. Sadly, there are many alums who have battled alcoholism in the decades since graduation and began their excessive drinking as undergrads. Some of them have written about it in the College publications.

None of my DC's applied to Dartmouth. The nail in the coffin for the last DC, who might have applied, was an email letter to alums from the College president last spring regarding the significant problems with "campus climate." You can google the events that led to the President's letter. Not much has changed over the years.

My nephew and a close friend of my son are current Dartmouth students and this is pretty consistent with what they have to say. There are things they love about Dartmouth, but both say they wish the "love it or leave it" aspect of the school would change.

[Anonymous]

My nephew and a close friend of my son are current Dartmouth students and this is pretty consistent with what they have to say. There are things they love about Dartmouth, but both say they wish the "love it or leave it" aspect of the school would change.

They can't "leave it" because they've got the granite of New Hampshire stuck in their muscles and their brains

[Anonymous]

It's amazing how all of the party scene at Dartmouth (and all of the NESCAC schools in NE) really made them less desirable and much worse academically more recently...oh wait, they're still among the best and most desirable schools in the U.S. It's not like this is a secret - if it's not for you, look elsewhere.