George Mason Elementary parents...did you (or do you plan to) continue at ACPS after elementary?

[Anonymous]

NP here, and we are also leaving ACPS for FFX county this year. Elementary school was fine, but no way are we sending our kids to GW. This is a major trend, no matter how the ACPS loyalists want to look at it. We know of at least 4-5 families in our elementary school class who are all house hunting in McLean/N. Arlington / Waynewood districts. It's the sad truth. We would love love love to stay in our home and neighborhood. But we cannot afford private school and don't feel the cost is justified when we can get as-good publics less than 5 miles away.

[Anonymous]

What specifically about GW is causing you to look at houses in FFX? Specifically....not generalized comments like it is a trend, everyone is, no way will we go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What specifically about GW is causing you to look at houses in FFX? Specifically....not generalized comments like it is a trend, everyone is, no way will we go there.

I am not the poster moving to FFX cty but here are some things:

The FARMS rate is high enough to tip the scales to the point where research indicates that it will have a negative effect. Recent education research indicates that the achievement gap can not be overcome easily, if at all, when income disparities account for the gap. Despite this, the schools continue to believe that they can and will close gap (they won't) and they continue to funnel almost all available resources and efforts towards the very bottom performing students. This means that students performing in the average ranges (slight below, at, or just above) are basically ignored since they are passing the test. There is no effort or sense of striving to achieve more. As long as you get by with a C everything is ok. For me, this is not the kind of message that I want to send my child.

The curriculum is not very challenging. It is geared toward slightly below the average ability. If you get a teacher who teaches even lower than that, your child gets even less out of the class. Honors classes are available but are open to everyone and students who do not do well are not removed. This negates the experience of an honors class.

Last year, 8% of eight graders passed Math.

Behavior incidents reported by the school are high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What specifically about GW is causing you to look at houses in FFX? Specifically....not generalized comments like it is a trend, everyone is, no way will we go there.

GW is basically a school where in order to thrive you have to be in an elite bubble, and that bubble is homogenous in many ways. This carries through TC. It's really a bifurcated system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What specifically about GW is causing you to look at houses in FFX? Specifically....not generalized comments like it is a trend, everyone is, no way will we go there.

I am not the poster moving to FFX cty but here are some things:

The FARMS rate is high enough to tip the scales to the point where research indicates that it will have a negative effect. Recent education research indicates that the achievement gap can not be overcome easily, if at all, when income disparities account for the gap. Despite this, the schools continue to believe that they can and will close gap (they won't) and they continue to funnel almost all available resources and efforts towards the very bottom performing students. This means that students performing in the average ranges (slight below, at, or just above) are basically ignored since they are passing the test. There is no effort or sense of striving to achieve more. As long as you get by with a C everything is ok. For me, this is not the kind of message that I want to send my child.

The curriculum is not very challenging. It is geared toward slightly below the average ability. If you get a teacher who teaches even lower than that, your child gets even less out of the class. Honors classes are available but are open to everyone and students who do not do well are not removed. This negates the experience of an honors class.

Last year, 8% of eight graders passed Math.

Behavior incidents reported by the school are high.

I'm one of the bigger ACPS bashers here, but this 8% passing math thing is highly misleading since the school pushed more into algebra, where the pass rates are considerably higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what is your experience with ACPS? You sound like an expert.

Was in the system for 7 years. Lived in the city for 18.

Left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently, MOST people do not leave the public school as I do not think the schools are threatened by lack of enrollment. On what are you basing this claim? You admit some go and are pleasantly surprised....etc. Not really sure what the point of this is. We get that you don't like it; very happy for you.

Upper middle class parents tend to pull their children out for middle school.

We're there now, and nope, the overwhelming majority of upper-income and upper-ed parents are staying in ACPS. In fact, ACPS middle school and high school enrollment are up well over 15% in the last few years. Sorry, but your post is factually wrong.

Actually, your post is factually wrong.

In a document produced by the Superintendent's office dated May 10,2013 enrollment in middle schools between 2008 and 2013 was up 11.8%. Also of note - the same document shows that at Francis Hammond Middle School the percent of "economically disadvantaged" students increased from 58% in 2008 to 74% in 2013. This leads me to speculate that growth in enrollment may have been in the West end of the City as opposed to places like Del Ray, Rosemont, Beverly Hills, and Old Town.

The document is available to be viewed by the public here: http://esbpublic.acps.k12.va.us/public_itemview.aspx?ItemId=4097&mtgId=412. The document is named - Middle_School_2013_overview[1].docx

[Anonymous]

NP here.

This is a link to a report that was done jointly by the City of Alexandria and ACPS. It contains information on historic enrollment patterns, and makes enrollment projections.

http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/Recent%20Growth%20in%20Alexandrias%20School%20Enrollment_The%20New%20Normal_%20FEB%2025%202013.pdf

In years past, the two organizations disagreed about enrollment projections, so it was a significant step for them to come out with a joint report.

For folks that like data, there's a lot of great information. (you know, as opposed to an anonymous poster insisting over and over again that "everyone" leaves Alexandria once their kids hit school age, or when their kids hit middle school.)

Here's just two items I'll point out.
On page 10, it lists the percentage of school-age children attending private school.
Alexandria 12.1%
Fairfax County 12.5%

On page 17, it describe the "cohort survival rate." This is the number of kids that continue from one grade to the next.

According to certain posters on DCUM, we should see some significant drop. Here's the reality.
Current retention rate at middle schools 97.6%. (Elementary school was 97.8%).
It doesn't break out by demographic, but even if there is a higher number of white non-FARMS students in the group that is leaving, we are talking about 2.4% of the entire population at middle school. Hardly a mass exodus.

And now the posters critical of ACPS will insist that the current high retention is only because the economy tanked and people were forced to stay.
The report provides some interesting information on that as well.
The pre 2007 retention rate at middle school was 93.5% for middle school (93.2% at elementary school.)
There are many factors that come into play here, but even is we go ahead and make a sweeping assumption that the entire difference between pre 2007 and current retention rates is due only to the economy, that is only a difference of 4.1 percent at the middle school level and 4.6% at the elementary level.
So even before the economic downturn, the reality is that the vast majority of children enrolled stayed enrolled, rather than fleeing. Also, it's a myth that most white middle class folks in Alexandria are choosing private school for their kids, as our rate of private school children is at the same level as that of Fairfax County.

I know I will now be accused of being an irrational ACPS booster. This is not the case. I do not think ACPS is perfect, far from it. I do think that ACPS is routinely bashed on DCUM, and any parent who comes to post with a positive experience is immediately shot down. Any pro-ACPS comment is also dismissed as being from "the same one or two people." As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I have not yet posted to this thread. These pro-ACPS posts clearly seem to come from a number of folks at different schools or with kids in different grades.

I get that some folks may have had a bad experience at an ACPS school. You can also find parents frustrated with aspects of their child's education in Arlington or (gasp!) Fairfax County. It's a free country and you certainly have the right to choose to move to a new jurisdiction or attend private. That does not mean that anyone who chooses to live in Alexandria and send their child through ACPS is in willful denial or an idiot.

OP, I'll just end by saying that feedback from an anonymous board will never be the most valuable source for information. Tour the schools, speak to parents of kids who are of middle school age, both enrolled in ACPS or not. You'll figure out the best fit for your family, and I wish you and your children a positive educational experience wherever you end up.

[Anonymous]

9:45 again just to say that before I also get accused of being an ACPS employee (another common retort by ACPS bashers) I can assure you I am not. (Heck you can have Jeff check my IP address, if you want.)
I recently attended a PTA meeting that included a presentation of this enrollment information, which I why I had ready access to it.

[Anonymous]

No, 9:45, the thing is that Slide 4 is more illustrative than slide 17.

See that huge gap between population growth and enrollment between 2000 and about 2008? That's the basis of the claims that a lot of people flee the system.

The most important variable since 2008 has been the economy and the implosion of the housing market. People are stuck, generally speaking. So, yeah, that may force more people into ACPS, and yes, they may make their peace with it, but it doesn't mean they're happy about it or, if given a choice, CHOOSING ACPS.

[Anonymous]

10:50 here.

actually that document on p. 9 says exactly what I said about how people got stuck.

don't confuse the rise in ACPS enrollment with enthusiasm for the school system.

[Anonymous]

10:50, I believe that blue line on slide 4 is the population of the entire city, based on the census (hence the lines move is straight line from point to point at the decade marks.)
The red line is the annual enrollment in ACPS, so you can see more fluctuation.
As this and other slides indicate, that reflects the fact that overall the city of Alexandria has more singles without children. We just don't have as many school age kids as some of the other jurisdictions, due to fewer single family homes. However, the chart indicates that in the last 10 years.
1. Overall population of Alexandria has increased
2. Population of children enrolled in ACPS has also increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:50 here.

actually that document on p. 9 says exactly what I said about how people got stuck.

don't confuse the rise in ACPS enrollment with enthusiasm for the school system.

You are correct that it indicates all of the reasons why it would be difficult for people to move. I don't think anyone is disputing that accurate enrollment projections need to keep factors like the economy in mind.
However...
As I tried to mention in my earlier post, it's worthwhile to keep in mind that even BEFORE 2007, when the presumably it would have been very easy for people to move it they wanted, the cohort survival rate was STILL 93.2% for elementary school, and 93.5 for middle. Those kinds of number indicate that there were not droves of people fleeing. Even if every single one of those people left for the reasons you suppose (ignoring there might be other reasons why someone might leave) that still is only 7%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you'll notice that the ACPS boosters are trying too hard, as usual. There is a very small handful, but they're very loud. You can recognize their signature by their emphasis on the exceptions who get accepted to ivy league schools, etc.

The sober reality is MOST people choose to leave ACPS before middle school.

Some decide to go and are pleasantly surprised on one extreme, find it tolerable, or, far more likely, have a difficult experience.

The ones who tell you it's gobsmackingly wonderful and everyone had a GREAT experience and Harvard, Yale and Princeton and yadda yadda ying yang are either overcompensating or rationalizing, and possibly both. Oftentimes, they don't know any better since they haven't actually experienced a quality system.

OP, you'll notice the the ACPS bashers are trying too hard, as usual. There is a very small handful, but they're very loud. You can recognize their signature by the emphasis on scoffing at those who get accepted to Ivy League schools, etc.

I think you say pretty much the same thing any time ACPS is brought up. You seem pretty hell-bent on getting people to leave Alexandria City, but as far as I'm concerned you are just a jerk. Some people believe in supporting the City's schools and helping to improve them. That's being involved in a community. If you flee, fine, but why do you constantly post this stuff like you are happy about it.

Also, I'm starting to think I know who you are from things you've said in person....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:50 here.

actually that document on p. 9 says exactly what I said about how people got stuck.

don't confuse the rise in ACPS enrollment with enthusiasm for the school system.

You are correct that it indicates all of the reasons why it would be difficult for people to move. I don't think anyone is disputing that accurate enrollment projections need to keep factors like the economy in mind.
However...
As I tried to mention in my earlier post, it's worthwhile to keep in mind that even BEFORE 2007, when the presumably it would have been very easy for people to move it they wanted, the cohort survival rate was STILL 93.2% for elementary school, and 93.5 for middle. Those kinds of number indicate that there were not droves of people fleeing. Even if every single one of those people left for the reasons you suppose (ignoring there might be other reasons why someone might leave) that still is only 7%.

Actually, that's a pretty high abandonment rate.