College Counseling?

[Anonymous]

I posted above about not needing to hire a college counselor, but I do agree w/ the counselor who responded that if you want to outsource the process, there is someone who can do the babysitting. My original view was based on the poster's notion (it seemed to me) that the private counselor could help make a sillk purse out of a sow's ear, or would use his or her fantastic contacts with college admissions officers on behalf of your DC. I don't think this is true, at least for the average counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?

Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Incorrect, the recs were from two teachers. The counselor and admin assistant at the time explained exactly what was being sent. The school submits their profile and a narrative on each girl based upon the answers from a questionnaire submitted by each student & their family. The counselor

No bitterness just being honest.

I promise you the counselor "form" is a very in-depth recommendation that pulls together SOME information from this student/family questionnaire, perhaps, but also weaves together years worth of teacher comments to paint a picture of the student. Maybe at NCS they didn't want to emphasize that aspect for fear the parents would be all over them to lobby about the counselor rec, but every independent school does it that way and if it were not an excellent assessment (which I'm sure your daughter worked hard for and deserved 100% by the way) she probably would not have gotten those results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a private college counselor myself and found this thread to be interesting. Here are some points to think about:

-Hiring a private college counselor is not a necessity for anyone. It is a service that people use to make their lives easier and improve their chances of admission. I absolutely believe that a parent with enough time, self-motivation, etc can really learn up on the college process and fully educate himself about it, and then help his own child through the process. The reality though is that many parents just don't have the time to devote to it... and I think the key is that a lot of background research needs to be done *before* one can start helping one's own child, because things have changed SO much since all of us applied to college. Honestly, it's no different than hiring a cleaning lady, landscaper, outsourcing a birthday cake to a bakery, giving our kids private tennis lessons, whatever - these are all services that we have the option of using to make our lives as parents easier. None of them are necessary.

-I have noticed that a pretty high number of my clients essentially use me for what I refer to as "babysitting." They do not want to do ANYTHING with their kids at home, they do not want to enforce having their kids do homework for me, and so I have to go to their house and sit there for five hours each week while little Johnny works on all of his essay drafts. These are the people that end up paying a huge bill at the end. It would be so easy to just sit home with Johnny, do the essay drafts, and come to me for revisions and help... and so much cheaper. However, it's their choice and if this is how they want to spend their money, more power to them. And the truth is, I guess if I had a senior in high school and an extra 10k to blow (which I do not, by the way, but if I did..) - maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just wash my hands of it and let a professional take over and do everything. Kind of like hiring a wedding planner.

- I can't emphasize this enough, but in order to really get your full value from a private counselor, you need to trust them and follow their advice. I have had a few clients with overbearing parents, where Mom steps in and doesn't like the changes I suggested for Junior's essay and then changes everything back. Well- fine- but you can't sit there and claim that my help was not effective if you did not give me the opportunity. I assure you that I know what I am doing. Same thing with choice of college list, whether to apply early or not, etc. I really believe that some people want to hire me to tell them that they are right, not give them my actual opinion. As a rule, I have found that the VAST majority of people think that their kids' essays are absolutely brilliant when in fact they are not and they need a lot of editing. It shocks me, because these are kids with good grades from good schools - and I just don't understand how they produce such poor written work.

-The number one thing is that the student's transcript and SAT scores are so much more important than anything else. A great essay and all the community service in the world is not going to get your kid with a 1300 into Harvard.

Great post, 15:02. The candid advice at the end is very appreciated, as is the comment about the generally tepid quality of most essay first drafts.

At our school the parents most upset about the results are the ones who ignored the school counselor's advice about adding schools to the list; applying early; and realizing that the 2100 SAT score of 2013 will not have the same impact of the SAT Verbal/Math 1400 of 1983 (hey everyone, did you know the SAT made the scale easier in 1996? True fact! SAT grade inflation, in other words). They then storm into the school, harass the counselor, and chew everyone's ears off at school-related events about how disappointed they were with the "support given [child]" by the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?


Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Incorrect, the recs were from two teachers. The counselor and admin assistant at the time explained exactly what was being sent. The school submits their profile and a narrative on each girl based upon the answers from a questionnaire submitted by each student & their family. The counselor

No bitterness just being honest.

*meant to say: The counselor's knowledge of my daughter (and I'm assuming many others, as well) was based upon what her recs stated and from the responses on her questionnaire.

New poster here. The school's college counselor would have sent a letter, too. Perhaps that is what you are calling a narrative, but it is more than a recitation of answers from a student or parent questionnaire; it is essentially a recommendation from the school. The school woud have evaluated her relative to her classmates and other classes before hers, e.g., "she is one of the strongest scholars in her class."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?

Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Incorrect, the recs were from two teachers. The counselor and admin assistant at the time explained exactly what was being sent. The school submits their profile and a narrative on each girl based upon the answers from a questionnaire submitted by each student & their family. The counselor

No bitterness just being honest.

I promise you the counselor "form" is a very in-depth recommendation that pulls together SOME information from this student/family questionnaire, perhaps, but also weaves together years worth of teacher comments to paint a picture of the student. Maybe at NCS they didn't want to emphasize that aspect for fear the parents would be all over them to lobby about the counselor rec, but every independent school does it that way and if it were not an excellent assessment (which I'm sure your daughter worked hard for and deserved 100% by the way) she probably would not have gotten those results.

So I assume the counselors at NCS would have to know each student very well or well enough to weave together such an in-depth recommendation.

NCS doesn't rank so if a counselor's using a relative comparison to other student's in the class within the recommendation it clearly becomes about grades and test scores. Then again, it's always about grades and test scores. Recs & ecs are just gravy unless you have a hook(s).