TJ: Kids having second thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

TJ's Algebra II may be accelerated, but the kids who should be there can handle it without extra help.

Yes, they should be able to handle it without extra help, but many of these students have been getting tutoring and outside help after school and on weekends for years.

True. It's just that the numbers struggling are bigger now and I suppose the fact that enough kids weren't getting help so school administration felt they had to do something. And again, if the math is so hard that these kids need tutoring in high school, why are they there? Or conversely why is the program so accelerated? I don't think it's an accident that I've heard of more than one TJ grad nearly having a breakdown in college over - surprise - a math class.

To be clear, I'm referring to outside help in the elementary and middle school years leading up to applying to TJ. I wonder if the kids who take after school and weekend math classes for so many years get so accustomed to the outside extra help that it becomes natural to seek extra help when struggling with a math class at TJ.

I agree with you that TJ students should be able to handle the math without outside help, except very occasionally.

Surprised no cheating scandals exposed at TJ yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

To be clear, I'm referring to outside help in the elementary and middle school years leading up to applying to TJ. I wonder if the kids who take after school and weekend math classes for so many years get so accustomed to the outside extra help that it becomes natural to seek extra help when struggling with a math class at TJ.

I agree with you that TJ students should be able to handle the math without outside help, except very occasionally.

Are you the same poster that keeps posting that the problem is TJ kids who have been getting outside tutoring all their lives? It's no secret that there are lots of kids at TJ who got tutoring through ES & MS school. But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ. They are not the ones that are needing remedial Math. I agree with the other prior poster who said that the problem is they've changed the admissions process to take more well rounded kids, or maybe not well rounded kids necessarily but to have other factors (like essays) count more than the Math/Science tests. I have no issues with TJ taking other factors other than Math & Science into account, if that's what they want to do. Heck, be like colleges and take race, passion & sports into account, for all I care.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know how many TJ kids get booted every year based on the 3.0 requirement? Is there a probation period?

What do dear parents do with their TJ car magnet if their kid gets booted out?

[Anonymous]

Cheating:
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/work-education/education/thomas-jefferson-high-school-interview-with-principal-elizabeth-lodal/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/02/AR2006050201589.html

http://mjmayank.com/blog/on-cheating/

[Anonymous]

But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ.

Do you thinkTJ students should be able to be successful in their math courses without outside tutoring?

And what is the difference between getting help outside of school and getting help during the school day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe remediation is for anyone hovering at B+/A-?

Sadly, no.

Actually, more like hovering at the B area. And they are using the word "remediation" to refer to requiring students to attend extra help sessions during activity periods, not a separate lower level class which is what the average person would think of as "remedial math." These are ninth grade Algebra II students.

I was at two parent meetings where this topic was discussed in great detail last spring.

Symantics. The fact remains these kids are unable to do the math at the level of TJ kids from previous years. At a math and science magnet that is a problem, no matter how you dress it up. And they're not the only 9th graders taking Algebra II in the county. Any kid who took Honors Geometry in 8th grade moves on to Honors Algebra II in 9th grade in most FCPS high schools - unless he or she decides to repeat Geometry. TJ's Algebra II may be accelerated, but the kids who should be there can handle it without extra help. Seems they managed to do that in previous years.

Actually, freshmen having trouble adjusting to high school was not new last year.

The reason the teachers decided to keep track of and proactively offer help to students very early in their freshman year was that they'd been seeing problems for a number of years before this. Teachers had been noticing freshmen needing help and decided in the summer of 2011 to begin offering help within the first month or so of school to students who appeared to need it, instead of waiting till later in the year when it might be harder to catch up.

This information comes from the letter the teachers wrote, many details of which were not included in the newspaper article.

There has been a "watch list" at TJ for a long time: the idea is to help students whose grades might be getting too close to the point where they'd be asked to leave. It is nothing new.

Are you TJ's press person or just drinking the kool-aid? 15% of last year's freshman class struggling in math was new, which was why veteran teachers felt compelled to complain to the school board.

It was not new that students were struggling with math. Teachers had been noticing freshmen having problems for a number of years and decided in the summer of 2011 to keep track of the numbers and offer help right away. This year (Fall 2012) the numbers needing help were about the same as last year (Fall 2011), roughly 15%. They don't know the exact number for previous years because they were not previously keeping track on a formal basis. The reason they decided to keep track was that they had observed freshmen struggling with Algebra II in the past.

I'm just a parent who wants to see the correct information going out there.

Then you should probably have this information from a May 30, 2012 Washington Post article:

"In recent years, about 8 percent of the school’s freshmen have landed on a “watch list” of students with grade-point averages below 3.3 on a 4-point scale. This year, that proportion nearly doubled, to 15 percent, and teachers said they were overwhelmed with students needing extra help."

Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/math-and-science-gaps-found-at-elite-fairfax-school/2012/05/30/gJQAmT2s2U_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ.

Do you thinkTJ students should be able to be successful in their math courses without outside tutoring?

And what is the difference between getting help outside of school and getting help during the school day?

Yes.

The difference is the inside help is paid for by taxpayers, when those teacher resources are actually supposed to be going to help gifted math and science students stretch themselves even further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ.

Do you thinkTJ students should be able to be successful in their math courses without outside tutoring?

And what is the difference between getting help outside of school and getting help during the school day?

Yes.

The difference is the inside help is paid for by taxpayers, when those teacher resources are actually supposed to be going to help gifted math and science students stretch themselves even further.

Soooo, it is okay for TJ kids to struggle with math if their families can pay for outside help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ.

Do you thinkTJ students should be able to be successful in their math courses without outside tutoring?

And what is the difference between getting help outside of school and getting help during the school day?

Yes.

The difference is the inside help is paid for by taxpayers, when those teacher resources are actually supposed to be going to help gifted math and science students stretch themselves even further.

This.

And that's the thing. If you need years of tutoring to get you into TJ then it is not a natural fit. Pretending a cow is a horse is ridiculous. My 7 grader is teaching himself calculus because he feels challenged by it. He never needed tutoring for anything other than maybe learning how to ride a bike. Spending extra taxpayers resources for your families social mobility is not right. TJ is suppose to be merit base not for who is best at posturing. What's going on you asked? I'd say with some, it's about entitlement and hypocrisy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But you seem to assume that these kids are all of a sudden stopping their tutoring once they get to TJ and then they can't keep up in Math. Believe me, the TJ kids who have been getting tutoring in ES & MS are continuing to get tutoring through TJ.

Do you thinkTJ students should be able to be successful in their math courses without outside tutoring?

And what is the difference between getting help outside of school and getting help during the school day?

Yes.

The difference is the inside help is paid for by taxpayers, when those teacher resources are actually supposed to be going to help gifted math and science students stretch themselves even further.

Soooo, it is okay for TJ kids to struggle with math if their families can pay for outside help?

As PP said, the kids who belong there, don't need the help.

[Anonymous]

"...Then you should probably have this information from a May 30, 2012 Washington Post article:

"In recent years, about 8 percent of the school’s freshmen have landed on a “watch list” of students with grade-point averages below 3.3 on a 4-point scale. This year, that proportion nearly doubled, to 15 percent, and teachers said they were overwhelmed with students needing extra help."

Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/math...12/05/30/gJQAmT2s2U_story.html "

Please give TJ kids a break. I believe the Freshmen at any universities have higher percentage than TJ kids who get below 3.3 GPA.

[Anonymous]

Are you TJ's press person or just drinking the kool-aid? 15% of last year's freshman class struggling in math was new, which was why veteran teachers felt compelled to complain to the school board.

It was not new that students were struggling with math. Teachers had been noticing freshmen having problems for a number of years and decided in the summer of 2011 to keep track of the numbers and offer help right away. This year (Fall 2012) the numbers needing help were about the same as last year (Fall 2011), roughly 15%. They don't know the exact number for previous years because they were not previously keeping track on a formal basis. The reason they decided to keep track was that they had observed freshmen struggling with Algebra II in the past.

I'm just a parent who wants to see the correct information going out there.


Then you should probably have this information from a May 30, 2012 Washington Post article:

"In recent years, about 8 percent of the school’s freshmen have landed on a “watch list” of students with grade-point averages below 3.3 on a 4-point scale. This year, that proportion nearly doubled, to 15 percent, and teachers said they were overwhelmed with students needing extra help."

Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/math-and-science-gaps-found-at-elite-fairfax-school/2012/05/30/gJQAmT2s2U_story.html




Please give TJ kids a break. I believe the Freshmen at any universities have higher percentage than TJ kids who get below 3.3 GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"...Then you should probably have this information from a May 30, 2012 Washington Post article:

"In recent years, about 8 percent of the school’s freshmen have landed on a “watch list” of students with grade-point averages below 3.3 on a 4-point scale. This year, that proportion nearly doubled, to 15 percent, and teachers said they were overwhelmed with students needing extra help."

Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/math...12/05/30/gJQAmT2s2U_story.html "

Please give TJ kids a break. I believe the Freshmen at any universities have higher percentage than TJ kids who get below 3.3 GPA.

The facts are the facts. And as for the second part of your post, of course freshman at any university would have a higher percentage of kids on the watch list, for one it's college and secondly, the majority of universities have lower acceptance standards than TJ. So give me a break. I'm not picking on TJ kids. I just have problems with a public magnet school letting in students who aren't qualified when plenty of others are.

[Anonymous]

I just have problems with a public magnet school letting in students who aren't qualified when plenty of others are.

The problem is that this area has many, many kids who are qualified for TJ, more than there are spaces available. Unfortunately, some very qualified kids will not be accepted simply because there is not enough space for every qualified applicant. There is probably not much difference between the last accepted student on the list and the next dozen or so applicants, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. It happens with college admissions also. There are just far more qualified applicants for, say, Harvard, than there spaces in the freshman class.
Fortunately, we live in an area that has many excellent public schools where a bright student can get a rigorous education by choosing courses wisely. I know lots of kids in regular high schools around here that work just as hard as kids at TJ.

[Anonymous]

I'm for diversity at TJ. If the Ivies and UVA can do it, TJ can do it too. The WORST thing would be just to let all the best test takers get in based on scores at the expense of diversity. The complete background of the candidate should be taken into consideration as well as their gender and ethnicity. LONG LIVE DIVERSITY!!