Bottom Half at Sidwell - How is college placement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11What make syou think " bottom half student" indicates C's. My DS attends another school , and just about his entire class gets all A's''

I'm a Sidwell parent. A very, very small group of kids have all As. Kids in the bottom half of the class usually still have very strong SAT scores. I think I read somewhere on this site that Sidwell averages 700 on SAT scores. That seems relatively accurate from what I have seen.

Another Sidwell parent here -- can I ask what you're basing this on? I know the kids claim to know what everyone else scored, but do you really think those reports are credible beyond your child's circle of very close friends? I sure don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a bottom half. Although there is no class rank so there is no way to know for sure. I went to a top 10 SLAC and an even better grad school. Obviously things have changed since then but my sense is the 50-75% group is going to Michigan, Kenyon, Dickinson, Trinity, UMD, etc. Not sure about the bottom quartile - probably a tier below. That's based on a totally unscientific study of where some of the recent grads we know have gone. Big state schools can be a challenge for places like Sidwell where Bs are not uncommon. GPAs/scores will be important and the Sidwell name won't mean much when they are processing 20-30,000 applications. A 3.0 will look like a 3.0.

This is correct. As a 15-20%-er at Sidwell I went to a non-HYP Ivy.

Interesting -- as the parent of 2 recent grads, I'd say this sounds like a reasonably good summary of current admissions trends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a bottom half. Although there is no class rank so there is no way to know for sure. I went to a top 10 SLAC and an even better grad school. Obviously things have changed since then but my sense is the 50-75% group is going to Michigan, Kenyon, Dickinson, Trinity, UMD, etc. Not sure about the bottom quartile - probably a tier below. That's based on a totally unscientific study of where some of the recent grads we know have gone. Big state schools can be a challenge for places like Sidwell where Bs are not uncommon. GPAs/scores will be important and the Sidwell name won't mean much when they are processing 20-30,000 applications. A 3.0 will look like a 3.0.

Although not much is certain in life, I'm pretty sure the UMD admissions folks are familiar with the Sidwell name. I think we need to factor in that, while it's true that Big 3 schools have punishing workloads, kids in area publics who are taking 8-12 APs also have punishing workloads (I happen to have seen both sides). So faced with 30,000 applicants, of whom maybe 10,000 (wild guess here, but for argument's sake) can demonstrate punishing workloads, I'm guessing UMD made the same calculation any Ivy with 30,000 applicants would make, which is to draw mainly from the large pool of valedictorians and 10 percenters and NMSSFs that are in the applicant pool.

They might be familiar with it but I doubt they are doing much weighting and saying a Sidwell 3.0 isn't the same as a Churchill 3.0. Plus how many Sidwell kids are really applying. Maybe 5 a year? And likely not the best kids Sidwell has to offer. At our MCPS its 200-250 a year applying, inclulding many of the best kids.

[Anonymous]

Another Sidwell parent here -- can I ask what you're basing this on? I know the kids claim to know what everyone else scored, but do you really think those reports are credible beyond your child's circle of very close friends? I sure don't.''

Like I said, I read it somewhere here on a spreadsheet. That said, my recent grad had a score in that range that was average for the school. Sidwell kids tend to do extremely well in verbal and reading- writing sections of the SAT which brings up averages. As to your snarky tone about whether or not the reports are credible, the scores and grades were consistent with the colleges kids got in to. You get to know the families pretty well and I don't think there was any misinformation about grades and scores. That hasn't been my experience at the school.

[Anonymous]

There is quite a lot of variability from year to year, but Sidwell in a recent graduating class sent I believe 8 to Yale, 2 to Harvard, 1 to Princeton, 1 to Stanford, 1 to MIT, 4-5 to Cornell, 2-3 to Brown, 3 to Columbia, 2-3 each to Penn and Duke, 6 to Michigan, another 8-10 to the very top SLACs (Pomona, Midd, Bowdoin, Amherst), a few to U Va, U Chicago, Rice, Northwestern, quite a few to NYU including honors program. There were a few legacies in there but by no means all, only 1 athletic recruit. I completely believe that the median composite SAT score is around 2100. The lower half or third of the class is going to have mostly Bs, with a few As and Cs thrown in, the lowest 10% might have all low Bs and Cs, there is virtually no one even at the very top of the class that graduates with straight As, the grading is not inflated, but even kids with scattered Bs particularly freshman and sophmore year can get into HYPS, without any other specific hooks such as athletics or legacy. The college advising in our experience was very good and personalized and absolutely did not spend more time/focus on the top 20% academically, really everyone at the school just about takes themselves seriously as a student and works hard by particularly the second half of high school, and is taken seriously by the school regarding college placement. I have no idea exactly which kids in the classes were lower quarter or so in terms of grades/testing, but my guess would be they were perhaps the ones going to places such as George Washington, Tufts, Wellesley, Barnard, Colgate, Occidental, Wake Forest, U Rochester, but really it seemed like just about everyone was going to a very strong college/university. I think it is the kids that are somewhat below the median at Sidwell that probably got the most out of the individualized college counseling process and the strong relationships the school has with admissions departments at a wide variety of great schools. And as a PP said, kids from Sidwell or similar schools are going to have a very easy time in college based on their strong writing and analysis skills.

[Anonymous]

regardless of where these kids end up, i suspect that the academic tools they develop and the people they become serve them very well in college and beyond. that is what you are paying for, not which bumper sticker you get to put on your car.

[Anonymous]

^^Lower quarter goes to Wellesley? That is an impressive school IMO. Much harder to get into than, say, Occidental...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:regardless of where these kids end up, i suspect that the academic tools they develop and the people they become serve them very well in college and beyond. that is what you are paying for, not which bumper sticker you get to put on your car.

This. And the experience of being at a private hs rather than a lg public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is quite a lot of variability from year to year, but Sidwell in a recent graduating class sent I believe 8 to Yale, 2 to Harvard, 1 to Princeton, 1 to Stanford, 1 to MIT, 4-5 to Cornell, 2-3 to Brown, 3 to Columbia, 2-3 each to Penn and Duke, 6 to Michigan, another 8-10 to the very top SLACs (Pomona, Midd, Bowdoin, Amherst), a few to U Va, U Chicago, Rice, Northwestern, quite a few to NYU including honors program. There were a few legacies in there but by no means all, only 1 athletic recruit. I completely believe that the median composite SAT score is around 2100. The lower half or third of the class is going to have mostly Bs, with a few As and Cs thrown in, the lowest 10% might have all low Bs and Cs, there is virtually no one even at the very top of the class that graduates with straight As, the grading is not inflated, but even kids with scattered Bs particularly freshman and sophmore year can get into HYPS, without any other specific hooks such as athletics or legacy. The college advising in our experience was very good and personalized and absolutely did not spend more time/focus on the top 20% academically, really everyone at the school just about takes themselves seriously as a student and works hard by particularly the second half of high school, and is taken seriously by the school regarding college placement. I have no idea exactly which kids in the classes were lower quarter or so in terms of grades/testing, but my guess would be they were perhaps the ones going to places such as George Washington, Tufts, Wellesley, Barnard, Colgate, Occidental, Wake Forest, U Rochester, but really it seemed like just about everyone was going to a very strong college/university. I think it is the kids that are somewhat below the median at Sidwell that probably got the most out of the individualized college counseling process and the strong relationships the school has with admissions departments at a wide variety of great schools. And as a PP said, kids from Sidwell or similar schools are going to have a very easy time in college based on their strong writing and analysis skills.

There seems to be a big disconnect between this poster and other Sidwell parents who are saying your kid needs a hook. I guess I'm wondering what year these results are from. It doesn't seem to be from the past two years, because the poster at 14:16 said 4-5 kids went to Harvard last year, and another poster said no kids went to Harvard the year before.

[Anonymous]

My 'big three', A student with a hook wants to go to USC or UCLA and would have no problem competing for an Ivy seat. Our goal was to make sure DC was prepared to do the work no matter which college. I have a feeling that DC was sick and tired of all the do or die Ivy. Smart kid that chooses the college that will be a good fit for them and not the parent(s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11What make syou think " bottom half student" indicates C's. My DS attends another school , and just about his entire class gets all A's''

I'm a Sidwell parent. A very, very small group of kids have all As. Kids in the bottom half of the class usually still have very strong SAT scores. I think I read somewhere on this site that Sidwell averages 700 on SAT scores. That seems relatively accurate from what I have seen.

Another Sidwell parent here -- can I ask what you're basing this on? I know the kids claim to know what everyone else scored, but do you really think those reports are credible beyond your child's circle of very close friends? I sure don't.

I can see the reason for the confusion R/T my post. DS does not go to Sidwell, but another NW DC Independant school, where I said the average kid is an "A" student. There is no grade inflation at my DS's school. What I am saying is that, if you took 70% of the kids at DS's school and put them at any other school they would be in the top 10% of the class in terms of academic achievement. As an adult who went to public school where there was a broad range, its kind of obvious that DS's class is not an "average" group of kids. All you have to do is host a play date, its obvious . In short, its a fast crowd. Its like if you took the top kids from every local school around and sent them all to one school, then re-adjusted the curriculum so that you teach to that top 10% because that is the new "middle". Everyone is an A student. Its like giving the teachers all honors kids to work with and nothing else.


There are also kids there who are above average, but maybe not the CTY type. I imagine an average or just above average kid would have to work their ass off just to keep up ( this is based on my perpective as an adult who is asked to sign graded tests, essays, and , field "mom did you learn this in school " type questions. The answer is, no, not in 4th grade.

Maybe the "bottom half" of class still get s an A or two, but they work their ass off to get. Think Med school, think law school kind of working ass off, only they are 10, 11 years old. My point is, kids who get B's in such an environment are not unmotivated or as PP said, they are just in with a fast crowd and working as had as they can, and probably getting B's , once and a while an A, and the occasional C.
After a decade of that kind of applied study, any university would be lucky to have them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a bottom half. Although there is no class rank so there is no way to know for sure. I went to a top 10 SLAC and an even better grad school. Obviously things have changed since then but my sense is the 50-75% group is going to Michigan, Kenyon, Dickinson, Trinity, UMD, etc. Not sure about the bottom quartile - probably a tier below. That's based on a totally unscientific study of where some of the recent grads we know have gone. Big state schools can be a challenge for places like Sidwell where Bs are not uncommon. GPAs/scores will be important and the Sidwell name won't mean much when they are processing 20-30,000 applications. A 3.0 will look like a 3.0.

This is correct. As a 15-20%-er at Sidwell I went to a non-HYP Ivy.

Interesting -- as the parent of 2 recent grads, I'd say this sounds like a reasonably good summary of current admissions trends.

We love DC's Independant school, and are thriled with the education DC is getting, but Dc is not in private school to get into Harvard, as opposed to Univ of Michigan. DC is in private because we live in the District and DCPS is not an option.

[Anonymous]

The college admissions reps from the Ivies, and certain other small colleges that get a lot of applications from the well-known independent schools in this area, are very familiar with the schools (to the extent that I've seen an Ivy rep on a school visit greet a specific teacher and talk about that teacher's style in writing recommendation letters -- apparently the letters were unusually good/literate/interesting).

The 17:50 poster's stats look accurate to me. I'm more familiar with STA over the past few years and while some students admitted to Ivies/Stanford/MIT/Duke/UChicago etc. have "hooks" (sports, alumni child, under-represented minority), the majority of them are unhooked but just very strong students (grades/scores). The top 20% in the class does quite well in terms of admission to the most selective schools. Last year, as I recall, STA had 5 go to Harvard and 5 go to Yale, and I think this year something like 5 got into Harvard early action and 4 to Yale.

With that said, those top students would, I'm sure, do just as well out of the many good public schools in this area. But the poster who suggested that only 1-2 students per school can get into the most selective colleges is actually underestimating the number somewhat.

On the original "bottom half of the class" question, my sense is that Sidwell (and the other good local independents) does well -- they do have many smart kids with high board scores who are well-qualified to attend some of the many great colleges we're lucky enough to have in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I can see the reason for the confusion R/T my post. DS does not go to Sidwell, but another NW DC Independant school, where I said the average kid is an "A" student. There is no grade inflation at my DS's school. What I am saying is that, if you took 70% of the kids at DS's school and put them at any other school they would be in the top 10% of the class in terms of academic achievement. As an adult who went to public school where there was a broad range, its kind of obvious that DS's class is not an "average" group of kids. All you have to do is host a play date, its obvious . In short, its a fast crowd. Its like if you took the top kids from every local school around and sent them all to one school, then re-adjusted the curriculum so that you teach to that top 10% because that is the new "middle". Everyone is an A student. Its like giving the teachers all honors kids to work with and nothing else.

There are also kids there who are above average, but maybe not the CTY type. I imagine an average or just above average kid would have to work their ass off just to keep up ( this is based on my perpective as an adult who is asked to sign graded tests, essays, and , field "mom did you learn this in school " type questions. The answer is, no, not in 4th grade.

Maybe the "bottom half" of class still get s an A or two, but they work their ass off to get. Think Med school, think law school kind of working ass off, only they are 10, 11 years old. My point is, kids who get B's in such an environment are not unmotivated or as PP said, they are just in with a fast crowd and working as had as they can, and probably getting B's , once and a while an A, and the occasional C.
After a decade of that kind of applied study, any university would be lucky to have them.

But the point is, Sidwell and your own school are NOT the only schools where the kids work their asses off. You say your school is not Sidwell, but the kids are still working their asses off. In most of the top independent schools in the DMV area, it's fair to say that most kids are working their asses off. Public magnet and IB kids are working their asses off. Public school kids with long slates of APs are working their asses off.

Having just gone through the college admissions process, it seems pretty clear that working your ass off, for good grades and SATs, is just the *threshold* for admission to the most selective colleges. Harvard gets 33,000 applications from kids, most of whom have great grades and SATs and took the most challenging courses at their mostly competitive public and private schools. Colleges are looking for something even more - lopsided passions, national-level achievement, starting a business, sending thousands of dollars to a volunteer group. DC, who got into a top ivy, not only worked working her ass off, she had one of these additional accomplishments. Or there are hooks, like legacy or athletic.

So colleges are not going to give Sidwell, or any of the area independents for that matter, extra points for harder-than-usual work. If there's something going on, it would have to be because of the Sidwell name. That, I have no data on, except for the list above which I sort of wonder about, given what I've heard about recent Sidwell results and ED results from December. I wish Sidwell actually posted exmissions, like all the other independent schools in the area.

[Anonymous]

I wish Sidwell actually posted exmissions, like all the other independent schools in the area.

Sidwell's definitely not alone.

STA: Posts just a small portion of results from topc colleges.
NCS: Used to post, but seemingly now has decided to follow Sidwell's lead of silence.
Holton: Posts just a list of college names with no numbers for each.
Maret: No list that I can find.
GDS: No list that I can find.