Boys with August birthdays and Kindergarten at MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine has a K boy with an August bday and she recently told me he's having a lot of trouble and she may have to have him repeat K. He had been in highly regarded, 3-day-a-week preK program in Bethesda and knew his letters but not his letter sounds and did not know how to write more than his name.

My friend thought her son would be okay given that many people told her that it's normal for entering kindergarteners to be in this stage of pre-reading/writing. Well it apparently wasn't normal at his school and she said she got called in a few weeks into the school year by the teacher who told her her son was really far behind. The situation has been terrible for her son's self-esteem.

I'm not saying you should hold back your son, OP, but that it might be helpful to look at the demographics/abilities of the K students in your home school before making a decision. It really varies a great deal in MCPS.

This is really awful. I feel like some schools want the children in KG to already know what they are supposed to learn in KG.

It could be that the friend's son has a language-based learning disability, such as dyslexia. My son was the same way - knew the letter names, but couldn't do the sounds. Could NOT write. Was terrified to be near a pencil. Or sound out a word. We had lots of tears in K and 1st when it came to spelling HW.

The teachers simply don't know anything about language-based LDs. He was in 2nd grade before I finally raised hell when he had correct answers marked wrong on a science test due to spelling... even though the school has this policy about "spell to your best ability. It's okay to spell a word incorrectly... just sound it out!" I even asked the teacher "Do you think he could have dyslexia?" And she looked at me, point blank, and only said "Why would you think that?" BECAUSE HE COULDN'T SPELL! I then had him tested and all my thoughts were confirmed - 2 language based LDs.

So to the PP who said some schools want kids in KG to already know what they're going to learn... I submit that nearly every school has no idea what to do with kids who just can't "get it" on their own. We were repeatedly told that his delayed handwriting was "normal. Don't worry about it. Especially boys!" And that his inability to sound out unknown words or nonsense words was "typical for boys."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine has a K boy with an August bday and she recently told me he's having a lot of trouble and she may have to have him repeat K. He had been in highly regarded, 3-day-a-week preK program in Bethesda and knew his letters but not his letter sounds and did not know how to write more than his name.

My friend thought her son would be okay given that many people told her that it's normal for entering kindergarteners to be in this stage of pre-reading/writing. Well it apparently wasn't normal at his school and she said she got called in a few weeks into the school year by the teacher who told her her son was really far behind. The situation has been terrible for her son's self-esteem.

I'm not saying you should hold back your son, OP, but that it might be helpful to look at the demographics/abilities of the K students in your home school before making a decision. It really varies a great deal in MCPS.

This is really awful. I feel like some schools want the children in KG to already know what they are supposed to learn in KG.

It could be that the friend's son has a language-based learning disability, such as dyslexia. My son was the same way - knew the letter names, but couldn't do the sounds. Could NOT write. Was terrified to be near a pencil. Or sound out a word. We had lots of tears in K and 1st when it came to spelling HW.

The teachers simply don't know anything about language-based LDs. He was in 2nd grade before I finally raised hell when he had correct answers marked wrong on a science test due to spelling... even though the school has this policy about "spell to your best ability. It's okay to spell a word incorrectly... just sound it out!" I even asked the teacher "Do you think he could have dyslexia?" And she looked at me, point blank, and only said "Why would you think that?" BECAUSE HE COULDN'T SPELL! I then had him tested and all my thoughts were confirmed - 2 language based LDs.

So to the PP who said some schools want kids in KG to already know what they're going to learn... I submit that nearly every school has no idea what to do with kids who just can't "get it" on their own. We were repeatedly told that his delayed handwriting was "normal. Don't worry about it. Especially boys!" And that his inability to sound out unknown words or nonsense words was "typical for boys."

Every school? Based on two examples? And really, what does this have to do with OP? Should she hold her son back because he might have a language disability?

It is not "typical for boys" to not be able to match sounds with letters, once it has been taught. I can't imagine any teacher saying that, and if one did, then he or she was not being professional. I'm sorry that experience has turned you off, but I wouldn't automatically apply it to "nearly every school." There are plenty of interventions in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

I did the opposite. My DS has an August b-day and we decided to wait. There were several kids with August birthdays in his class who were close to his age. There was a broad range of skills - from learning letter sounds to full reading. They were broken into groups so the teacher would work on each particular skill level.

We made the right decision for us. My DS did come in at a high reading level but he is pushed by the other high performing kids. He is on the small side so he is average height and has a confidence that allows him to stretch himself. Where he is not being challenged, we work with him at home. On the flip side, he has a friend the same age who decided to go at the young age and he is doing fine as well. They are at the same reading and math level so his friend tends to be in the middle of the pack in class.

A September cutoff is an arbitrary date. The cuttoff date is different by county, by state. The district picks a time it feels, on a general basis, is the right time. However, if you are close to the cutoff then you need to decide if your child is ready, irrespective of the official date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine has a K boy with an August bday and she recently told me he's having a lot of trouble and she may have to have him repeat K. He had been in highly regarded, 3-day-a-week preK program in Bethesda and knew his letters but not his letter sounds and did not know how to write more than his name.

My friend thought her son would be okay given that many people told her that it's normal for entering kindergarteners to be in this stage of pre-reading/writing. Well it apparently wasn't normal at his school and she said she got called in a few weeks into the school year by the teacher who told her her son was really far behind. The situation has been terrible for her son's self-esteem.

I'm not saying you should hold back your son, OP, but that it might be helpful to look at the demographics/abilities of the K students in your home school before making a decision. It really varies a great deal in MCPS.

This is really awful. I feel like some schools want the children in KG to already know what they are supposed to learn in KG.

First off, I want to say that this kid will end up being fine. They've caught it early enough, and I'm sure the parents will be able to get the kid the help he needs before he leaves K.

So, I know this will sound kind of harsh, and I apologize in advance, but I see this as a parenting issue. What was this mom thinking?? Did she really think that a 3 day a week preschool program was going to be enough for her son to teach him what he needed? MCPS has a K readiness list that is publicly available on their website. Didn't your friend think it might be helpful to work on the letter sounds with her son?

I could see if this was a low-income family with 2 parents working long hours. They might not have the time to work with the kid at home. Or, if it's a family where English is a second language. They might not be able to teach the kid what he needs. But, you're saying that your friend lived in Bethesda, and used a 'well-regarded' preschool. If that is the case, I'm guessing that they are financially stable enough, and that the mom could have helped her kid before he reached this point.

I'm sure the little boy will do fine. But, this is a case where redshirting wouldn't have been the best answer. Really, the mom should have been helping this kid learn at home so that, regardless of his age, he would have been ready for K in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine has a K boy with an August bday and she recently told me he's having a lot of trouble and she may have to have him repeat K. He had been in highly regarded, 3-day-a-week preK program in Bethesda and knew his letters but not his letter sounds and did not know how to write more than his name.

My friend thought her son would be okay given that many people told her that it's normal for entering kindergarteners to be in this stage of pre-reading/writing. Well it apparently wasn't normal at his school and she said she got called in a few weeks into the school year by the teacher who told her her son was really far behind. The situation has been terrible for her son's self-esteem.

I'm not saying you should hold back your son, OP, but that it might be helpful to look at the demographics/abilities of the K students in your home school before making a decision. It really varies a great deal in MCPS.

This is really awful. I feel like some schools want the children in KG to already know what they are supposed to learn in KG.

This is the MCPS link regarding Kindergarten Readiness.

It actively encourages parents to teach their kids phonics.
E.g. Write letters on pieces of paper and put them in a paper bag. Have your child pull out a paper from the bag and say the name of the letter and the sound that it represents. Then have him/her say a word that begins with the same sound.

It's public information - what the county would like parents to do with their kids to get them ready.

PPs anecdote is ridiculous. It makes people think 'hey, I should redshirt my little boy so his self-esteem won't suffer'. When, in reality, this boy's mom just didn't do enough to help him get ready for K.

Unless, of course, there is a learning disability, which is a completely different issue. But, the PP doesn't mention a LD diagnosis, so I'm going on the assumption that this little boy did NOT have a LD.

[Anonymous]

MCPS is very bizarre. I almost feel as if they want the kid's educated outside the school so the school can enjoy high test scores without actually teaching.

The K curriculum is really easy and the majority of the class is completely bored learning how to count to 10. However, if your child isn't comfortable reading and writing several levels ahead of where they are teaching, its a problem that the school points out. We had a friend who moved here from out of state and they sent her 1st grader back to K because her writing skills were not as strong as the other kids. She was no where near behind based on national levels but she would require instruction. I really think MCPS can't manage the large class sizes, expect that kids just sit around and expect the kids to already know everything when its time for assessment.

We're all encouraged to make sure to supplement in everything (except math..math should not be learned in MD for some reason) but then the kids do nothing in school.

[Anonymous]

This is the link:
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/earlychildhood/kindergarten/GettingReadyForKindergarten.pdf

Just my two cents.... I think the true test of readiness is social/emotional readiness. I am sending my late summer birthday boy since he is socially able to keep up with kids that are older. He knows how to write his name, knows the letters, letter sounds, numbers, and can read some simple words. I do worry about him feeling bad about himself since he will probably be on the low end of abilities coming in, but hopefully he will catch up. Its so hard to know what the right thing to do is. We can only trust our gut and hope for the best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is very bizarre. I almost feel as if they want the kid's educated outside the school so the school can enjoy high test scores without actually teaching.

The K curriculum is really easy and the majority of the class is completely bored learning how to count to 10. However, if your child isn't comfortable reading and writing several levels ahead of where they are teaching, its a problem that the school points out. We had a friend who moved here from out of state and they sent her 1st grader back to K because her writing skills were not as strong as the other kids. She was no where near behind based on national levels but she would require instruction. I really think MCPS can't manage the large class sizes, expect that kids just sit around and expect the kids to already know everything when its time for assessment.

We're all encouraged to make sure to supplement in everything (except math..math should not be learned in MD for some reason) but then the kids do nothing in school.

But, to be honest, your kid is only in school for about 5-6 hours per day. Do you really think that's enough time for him/her to learn everything? That seems unreasonable. It's our job as parents to help the kids out.

Plus, at this age (3/4/5), kids are like sponges. They LOVE to learn. As parents, we're the perfect people to feed that need!

[Anonymous]

I have an end of the summer son (last week in August) and we are holding back. Although he can swing it academically, in general boys are behind in maturity that can be detrimental at each milestone ahead.

Every stage (not just the 4/5/6 yo) difference matters - puberty, driving, etc. It was best said to me do you want your 17 yo making a decision to get into a car with their friend who was drinking. Life decisions and maturity level are made during your teenage years. A little extra maturity will hopefully help out.

I am sure he would wind up fine if he went to K this year; we are just more comfortable waiting a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Every stage (not just the 4/5/6 yo) difference matters - puberty, driving, etc. It was best said to me do you want your 17 yo making a decision to get into a car with their friend who was drinking. Life decisions and maturity level are made during your teenage years. A little extra maturity will hopefully help out.

I also have an Aug birthday DS and we're sending him on time. I have heard this argument about maturity WRt driving, drinking, etc. but not sure what people mean.

My kid wil turn 17 when he turns 17. He can't drive before that whether he's a senior in HS or a junior in HS. It's based on grade not age. Are you assuming that if your child is the oldest in the class he will be more mature than his friends? What about having friends in different grades? In HS, I had friends from grades above and below me from being involved in drama and band. So, when I was a sophomore, I had senior friends that could drive already anyway.

I don't really think that redshirting ensure that your kid will be more 'mature' and make more 'mature' decisions regarding drinking/driving/sex. But that's totally just my opinion!

[Anonymous]

PP - meant it's based in age not grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Every stage (not just the 4/5/6 yo) difference matters - puberty, driving, etc. It was best said to me do you want your 17 yo making a decision to get into a car with their friend who was drinking. Life decisions and maturity level are made during your teenage years. A little extra maturity will hopefully help out.

I also have an Aug birthday DS and we're sending him on time. I have heard this argument about maturity WRt driving, drinking, etc. but not sure what people mean.

My kid wil turn 17 when he turns 17. He can't drive before that whether he's a senior in HS or a junior in HS. It's based on grade not age. Are you assuming that if your child is the oldest in the class he will be more mature than his friends? What about having friends in different grades? In HS, I had friends from grades above and below me from being involved in drama and band. So, when I was a sophomore, I had senior friends that could drive already anyway.

I don't really think that redshirting ensure that your kid will be more 'mature' and make more 'mature' decisions regarding drinking/driving/sex. But that's totally just my opinion!

+1

I have one son who was redshirted and the other who started school on time, despite a late birthday. Both have done very well, both intellectually and socially. They are both in high school.

Concerning having a boy who is one of the oldest in his class, I can tell you, it doesn't matter -- my sons peers/friends are not quite as old as he is (he's 18, they are 17) but they all hang out together and do the exact same things. Being a few months older than your peers doesn't put you at a different maturity level! However, my DS can now get into a lot more trouble than his friends if they do something illegal, simply because he IS considered an adult, while his friends are still considered juveniles. And what PP said about hanging out with kids from different grades is entirely true. One of my youngest's best friends is two grades above him.

The comments about puberty the PP mentioned have not been a factor AT ALL for my boys. The school my kids attend in MCPS has kids from all over the world, and when kids move here sometimes they are behind educationally, so it has not been unusual to find a two year range of ages within a grade level. By the time kids are in 7th grade, you have some boys going through puberty while others won't go through it until years later, so see boys ranging in height from below 5 feet to over 6 feet. My youngest is just now going through puberty and he says he has never been teased about his size. On the other hand, my other son went through puberty in 7th grade and was self-consious about being so much taller than his classmates.

You can't predict these things. When it comes to redshirting, focus more on where your child is now and where you think they will be in the next 3-5 years, instead of trying to guess what will happen to them in middle and high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Concerning having a boy who is one of the oldest in his class, I can tell you, it doesn't matter -- my sons peers/friends are not quite as old as he is (he's 18, they are 17) but they all hang out together and do the exact same things. Being a few months older than your peers doesn't put you at a different maturity level! However, my DS can now get into a lot more trouble than his friends if they do something illegal, simply because he IS considered an adult, while his friends are still considered juveniles. And what PP said about hanging out with kids from different grades is entirely true. One of my youngest's best friends is two grades above him.

This is an issue that I considered quite a bit. I feel like my DS is a bit of a 'follower'. And, I could totally see this happening, where he is 17 and has his driver's license, but his 16 yo friends do not. And, getting egged on by his younger friends and ending up in trouble!

This might not be a concern if your kid is more of a 'leader'!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You can't predict these things. When it comes to redshirting, focus more on where your child is now and where you think they will be in the next 3-5 years, instead of trying to guess what will happen to them in middle and high school.

Good advice. You can really never predict where you kid will be academically/socially/maturity wise in 10 years.

Look at where you boy is now. Is he at a level similar to other kids in his current preschool? Then, send him.

[Anonymous]

This is a very interesting thread and is trending the opposite of many others on the same topic. We have the same situation, DS with a very late August birthday and in the MCPS district. We decided to put him in a private pre-K rather then send him to K. Everyone told us to give him "the gift of time." So far, it has worked out.