why is there not outrage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In addition to ppl having balloon loans and adjustable loans they cannot afford, there are people perfectly capable of paying their mortgage and simply walking away from their homes b/c they now have negative equity.

People should be mad, they should be real mad at these people. It is disgusting and immoral behavior. From my vantage point working with these scumbags on a daily basis and cleaning up their mess, there are not words to describe my disgust for these parasites.

Isn't this called 'jingle mail' where the owners walk out and leave the keys in the mailbox? To me, a bad housing investment is no different than a bad tech stock investment 6 years ago. Sure, my DH lost his ass in Janus Olympus tech funds, but there was no way to simply BAIL on it, or somehow obfuscate his loss by leaving it for someone else to pay. There ought to be a way to structure home loans so that people cannot just walk away. Oh wait, there used to be! It was called 20% down payment!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't this called 'jingle mail' where the owners walk out and leave the keys in the mailbox? To me, a bad housing investment is no different than a bad tech stock investment 6 years ago. Sure, my DH lost his ass in Janus Olympus tech funds, but there was no way to simply BAIL on it, or somehow obfuscate his loss by leaving it for someone else to pay. There ought to be a way to structure home loans so that people cannot just walk away. Oh wait, there used to be! It was called 20% down payment!

I don't condone lying in order to get another home - these people should be punished - but I can certainly understand why people walk away from a house with negative equity. Buying a house and taking out a mortgage are not totally separate decisions. In a sense is really the bank that is buying the house until you can pay of the mortgage. The problem was that the banks/mortgage companies took huge risks by providing loans without 20 percent or more in downpayments. The mortgage companies/banks didn't care because they were bundling the mortgages up and selling them on. But the ponzi scheme that kept this all working was not so much about everyone being able to continue paying their mortgages but the appreciating home values, which meant if the banks had to foreclose they would get their money back.

So the root cause of this mess wasn't people buying houses they couldn't afford, it was financial companies providing loans when they didn't care whether they could be repaid or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the root cause of this mess wasn't people buying houses they couldn't afford, it was financial companies providing loans when they didn't care whether they could be repaid or not.

It was both the financial companies AND the borrowers. It takes two to tango, and there were plenty of us out there with enough common sense and financial responsibility to see past the realtors' and mortgage brokers' hype and realize that the loans were a bad deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to address a few comments. First 9:38. I am in foreclosures. I work with the banks and assess "value" to homes that are about to foreclosure. I also list distressed properties and work with homeowners in distress to try to re-negotiate terms or negotiate with the bank on short sales.

9:38, what you are describing has become increasingly common. There is a term for this called "buy and bail". It is an OUTRAGE and these people should be jailed. I personally think it is fraud and should be considered a felony. These people are pretending that they are renting out their original house the then stop the payments when they close on their new home. Banks have caught onto this scam. So, if you are planning on "renting" out your primary home and moving into a new home, you now have to have up to 30% equity on the original home. So, if you neighbor tried this today. Here is what his situation would look like today if he tried this:

-Original Home purchased at 600K
-Current value of original home 420K
-He would not be able to qualify for a second loan unless his original loan was paid down by 30%, which would allow a max loan value of 294K
This removes the incentive to try this scam (AKA FRAUD).

In addition to ppl having balloon loans and adjustable loans they cannot afford, there are people perfectly capable of paying their mortgage and simply walking away from their homes b/c they now have negative equity.

People should be mad, they should be real mad at these people. It is disgusting and immoral behavior. From my vantage point working with these scumbags on a daily basis and cleaning up their mess, there are not words to describe my disgust for these parasites.

Excuse my grammar and moments of incoherence in this post. Its hard to put words together when this topic comes up, as I get very angry. If you worked my job, you would need to take 2 showers just to clean the filth off your body after a day at work.

WHERE and HOW do I report my neighbor? I would love to see him charged with a felony.

The banks just don't have the resources right now to check into these things. They are in crisis mode right now. However, I completely agree, I think these people should be charged with fraud.


To the PP, I do not have the sympathy you have towards people walking away form their obligations. This creates suffering for ALL of us in the end. If everyone had your attitude, we would all be required to put a 40% down payment. Home ownership would only be for the wealthy. People who are walking away are spoiling it for all of us. There are many people still sitting in their homes and have negative equity and have not walked away. They have integrity and ethics.

You expunge these people of their responsibility and squarely lay all fault on the banks. Where is your sense of personal accountability?


People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character. -Emerson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't condone lying in order to get another home - these people should be punished - [b]but I can certainly understand why people walk away from a house with negative equity. Buying a house and taking out a mortgage are not totally separate decisions. In a sense is really the bank that is buying the house until you can pay of the mortgage.[/b] The problem was that the banks/mortgage companies took huge risks by providing loans without 20 percent or more in downpayments. The mortgage companies/banks didn't care because they were bundling the mortgages up and selling them on. But the ponzi scheme that kept this all working was not so much about everyone being able to continue paying their mortgages but the appreciating home values, which meant if the banks had to foreclose they would get their money back.

So the root cause of this mess wasn't people buying houses they couldn't afford, it was financial companies providing loans when they didn't care whether they could be repaid or not.

I disagree, particularly wiht what I have bolded. I think the banks should go after people with a vengance who are walking away who have the ability to pay. I think they should take their car, 401K, and garnish their wages.

i am someone who will most likely be underwater soon if this downward trend continues. I have something called integrity-look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There ought to be a way to structure home loans so that people cannot just walk away. Oh wait, there used to be! It was called 20% down payment!

I don't think is fair. I'm one of the people who did not pay a large downpayment. I got qualified for 0% down but in the end put down 3%. I did that loan so I could use the money in my savings to pay for closing costs. I did not take out a loan I can't afford. I can afford the payments without any problem. I didn't buy an expensive house. Not everyone who didn't pay 20% is scamming or trying to get something for nothing. My bank qualified me for a loan of almost $600,000 with no down payment required. I didn't jump at that, it would have been insane. Instead, I took out a loan for $230,000. One I know I can repay. My bank really, really wanted me to take out a larger loan and it makes me mad that they tried to talk me into that. They should be ashamed of themselves for that. I'm sure there were a lot of people who got talked into stuff they couldn't afford, because there's a feeling that the bank wouldn't let you do something you can't afford. And yes, people should know their own financial situations better, but I can see it being confusing. I had a friend I had to talk out doing a no downpayment loan where the interest rate would raise dramatically after 5 years. She could not understand it, and thought she could finally own a home, and she argued with me that "they wouldn't let me do it if it wasn't okay."

I don't think it's great that we're bailing people out, but I also don't think it's okay not to do something to keep our economy from collapsing. When the ship is sinking, let's not stand around arguing about who caused the hole, and refuse to fix the hole that wasn't our fault. Let's fix the hole so we don't all drown. And pass some regulations so this doesn't happen again.

[Anonymous]

The bosses of Freddie and Fannie made $24 million last year in salaries and bonuses. At Lehman, Chief Executive Officer Richard Fuld pulled down nearly $270 million over the past five years.

These people were gambling with other peoples money and taking all the upside.

At the end of the day they get to keep their ill-gotten gain.

Yet most of you people reserve all your outrage for those whose lose their homes?

Look at what has happened to your pension funds and investments: gambled away by Wall Street. These people knew exactly what they were doing, unlike many homeowners who bought into something they couldn't afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bosses of Freddie and Fannie made $24 million last year in salaries and bonuses. At Lehman, Chief Executive Officer Richard Fuld pulled down nearly $270 million over the past five years.

These people were gambling with other peoples money and taking all the upside.

At the end of the day they get to keep their ill-gotten gain.

Yet most of you people reserve all your outrage for those whose lose their homes?

Look at what has happened to your pension funds and investments: gambled away by Wall Street. These people knew exactly what they were doing, unlike many homeowners who bought into something they couldn't afford.

And let's not forget the AIG folks who had the $440,000 retreat after getting bailed out. The CEO received a $5 million bonus in 2007, "even as the company lost $5 billion in the 4th quarter of that year." Are you kidding me? A $5 million bonus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There ought to be a way to structure home loans so that people cannot just walk away. Oh wait, there used to be! It was called 20% down payment!

I don't think is fair. I'm one of the people who did not pay a large downpayment. I got qualified for 0% down but in the end put down 3%. I did that loan so I could use the money in my savings to pay for closing costs. I did not take out a loan I can't afford.

I'm the pp who posted this. What I meant was, back in the "old days" when you either put down 20% or paid PMI (before piggybacking become common), this was the failsafe way banks made sure they had positive equity in the home in case the buyer defaulted. It also worked the other way, to make sure the buyer didn't walk out on a deal without losing a LOT of money.

We put down 10% on our home when we bought in 2004. We couldn't have gotten in any other way. I'm not saying people who don't put down 20% are scammers or caused the problems based on not putting down 20%. Like you, we underbought even in the face of realtors trying to show us houses that were $200K more than we could afford.

Going forward, I think it should go back to either 20% down or PMI is required, and no piggybacks allowed. Will it be harder on my family? Yes. We'll have to save more money for a bigger down payment or cough up the PMI monthly. But will it be better for the fiscal health of the economy and the nation, and for me, knowing my neighborhood has a solid floor beneath it? Yes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
We put down 10% on our home when we bought in 2004. We couldn't have gotten in any other way. I'm not saying people who don't put down 20% are scammers or caused the problems based on not putting down 20%. Like you, we underbought even in the face of realtors trying to show us houses that were $200K more than we could afford.

Aah, okay, got it. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

WHERE and HOW do I report my neighbor? I would love to see him charged with a felony.

This won't get him criminal charges, but since he is a real estate agent you can report him to the licensing agency appropriate for the jurisdiction in which he is licensed and/or where you live. I am a Realtor (he may not be one, not all real estate agents are, there is a code of ethics involved) and this disgusts me as well. We are not allowed to lie on documents, so it can be proved he did this his livelihood could be in serious trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

WHERE and HOW do I report my neighbor? I would love to see him charged with a felony.

This won't get him criminal charges, but since he is a real estate agent you can report him to the licensing agency appropriate for the jurisdiction in which he is licensed and/or where you live. I am a Realtor (he may not be one, not all real estate agents are, there is a code of ethics involved) and this disgusts me as well. We are not allowed to lie on documents, so it can be proved he did this his livelihood could be in serious trouble.

Tell me where to report him in Loudoun County. I will do it today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

WHERE and HOW do I report my neighbor? I would love to see him charged with a felony.

This won't get him criminal charges, but since he is a real estate agent you can report him to the licensing agency appropriate for the jurisdiction in which he is licensed and/or where you live. I am a Realtor (he may not be one, not all real estate agents are, there is a code of ethics involved) and this disgusts me as well. We are not allowed to lie on documents, so it can be proved he did this his livelihood could be in serious trouble.

Tell me where to report him in Loudoun County. I will do it today.

Probably the DAR (Dulles Association of Realtors) and the NVAR (Northern Virginia Association of Realtors)

Contact Info for DAR http://www.dullesarea.net/index/contact.html

Contact info for NVAR http://www.nvar.com/standards/stdseth.lasso

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

WHERE and HOW do I report my neighbor? I would love to see him charged with a felony.

This won't get him criminal charges, but since he is a real estate agent you can report him to the licensing agency appropriate for the jurisdiction in which he is licensed and/or where you live. I am a Realtor (he may not be one, not all real estate agents are, there is a code of ethics involved) and this disgusts me as well. We are not allowed to lie on documents, so it can be proved he did this his livelihood could be in serious trouble.

I'm the poster who works foreclosures.

Actually what the neighbor did was CRIMINAL. Its fraud. He lied on his original loan. I have 2 rental properties, both of them were my primary residence at one time. Each time I qualified for a NEW loan for my new primary residence, I had to produce PROOF that the property I was leaving (and not selling) was already rented. I had to find tenants before I could sign on my new home. It was conditional. I will bet you 99:100 that this neighbor produced a FAKE lease agreement on the house he bailed on. He might have made up a name or he might have used a family member or friend to pretend. SHAME on the bank for not checking, they continue to be stupid idiots.

The poster could easily run a title search, which is a matter of public record at the county courthouse and contact the original bank and the new bank who holds his loan on the new house and inform them of the FRADULENT loan application he submitted. In big bold letters on any credit application it clearly states that it is a crime to lie on a loan application. I believe it is a federal violation.

Only problem, is that all of this is time consuming and the banks most likely do not have the resources to prosecute. However, in my line of work, I'm getting the feeling that the banks are now checking after people much more, they want to nail people. Particularly appraisers. I am getting requests fromt he banks asking me to assess value of a homes that were sold 2-4 years ago. They want to know if the appraisers were inflating home values, because, lets face it, the appraisers WERE in the pocket of the brokers and lenders and would give them ANY number they wanted. I suspect that they are going to go after there appraisers who carry personal liability for their line of work. I say good-nail them.

The poster might have some luck if she wants to put 10 or so hours into this. I would. I can't stand the sight of these scumbags. I would be that neighbor's worst nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It was both the financial companies AND the borrowers. It takes two to tango, and there were plenty of us out there with enough common sense and financial responsibility to see past the realtors' and mortgage brokers' hype and realize that the loans were a bad deal.

Families borrowing more than they should does not bring down the financial system. Irresponsible behavior and mispricing of risk by the financial companies does.