Immersion and other language classes in schools. Which language and why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would choose Mandarin first as its harder to learn and the opportunities to learn it later on are minimal. You can learn Spanish anywhere as long as you put in the time.

I agree. Every MD I know picked up enough Spanish during their medical training to be able to work at major urban medical centers even if they had not known any Spanish prior to entering med school.

Those doctors may think that they speak Spanish well enough to get by, but their Spanish-speaking patients would probably disagree. I know many well educated bilingual adults (born and raised in this county by native speaking parents) who are not completely confident in their language skills because they only spoke Spanish at home while growing up (meaning their vocabulary is largely "home or kitchen" Spanish). Believe me, a doctor who is truly a fluent Spanish speaker (with a much more robust vocabulary and correct grammer) will have career opportunities in this country that other docs and healthcare professionals cannot imagine.

And to those who say I would choose _______ language over Spanish because I don't travel to Spanish speaking countries are really missing the point. It's the only foreign language that does NOT require one to travel outside this country to use. Spanish is quickly becoming the de facto second language in this country. Ignore this fact at your children's peril.

[Anonymous]

so agree 1:16...even fluent speakers of english as a second language are overwhelmed with technical vocabulary - mechanic, legal, medical. It's very difficult for both sides to understand each other in those areas between native speakers!

In our school spanish is so poorly taught - so we picked the language my child was interested in and take private classes (mandarin) but I agree that spanish is the truly most useful second language for US residents.

[Anonymous]

If you work in a service industry like healthcare, Spanish is the language which is most useful. I work in finance and in my field the most useful language is French. I have a friend from college who works in international trade based out of Hong Kong and he'll say the most useful is Mandarin; that's how he got his job after all.

Depends on the field and since it's impossible to know where your child will end up, go with the language you can support.

[Anonymous]

I disagree that Spanish is the only language in America that is used widely other than English. I see huge numbers of Indians, Arabs, French, and Chinese people around here and other areas of the US.

[Anonymous]

I don't know Spanish and don't miss not knowing it since I don't work in a service industry nor know any Spanish speakers who don't speak English. We chose Mandarin for our DC since it's the most difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I speak 5 languages -- some very useful, others fairly useless.

I would say that the best gift you can give your child is the knowledge that learning a language is not that hard. If you know three languages well, learning a fourth is easier -- there is often shared vocabulary and grammar, but moreover you'll have experience in how to learn and study a language.

Which languages do you find the most useful?

English, obviously But like I said -- when I met my (foreign) DH and realized I had to learn his language, it was a fun project -- not something to be scared about. Learning his native language (which is "useless" in business etc) is one of the best investments I've ever made, learning wise.

[Anonymous]

I have a working knowledge of Spanish, French, Russian, and Chinese (and one or two other languages that are more obscure).

For living in the US, Spanish is the way to go. You're much more likely to need it in every day scenarios compared to the others. At the same time, Spanish is relatively easy to learn compared to Russian and Chinese (uses Roman alphabet).

Forget French. It's great for intellectual reasons, but not that useful. Yes, I know many countries speak French, but even that's going out of style. For example, Rwanda changed their official language from French to English a couple years ago. You never see countries switching to French any more.

Russian is the lingua franca of most of Eastern Europe. I can get around in at least 20 countries with Russian, as the locals know it as a second or first language, or their own language is similar (Slavic).

Mandarin is the interesting one. First, the characters (referring to Simplified, not Traditional Chinese) do not map directly to spoken language. There are many dialects in China, and people may not be able to understand each other, but they can both understand the same characters. The reason is that the characters do not necessarily indicate pronunciation (yes, I know about pictophonetic characters but tell that to someone from Guangdong province). I'm assuming the schools teach standard Mandarin (putonghua). In terms of learning grammar, Chinese is actually pretty easy. Verbs are not declined, and there is no perfect tense. You basically have present and past tense only. The numbers are really easy also. Usefulness is the big question. If you plan to spend time in China or nearby countries, knowledge of Mandarin will be extremely useful as English skills are sorely lacking (this may be different in 20 years from now though). However, there are huge numbers of American children with Chinese parents who will get those jobs before any non-Chinese person due to more skills.

Ok, so that's not an answer. We're facing the same question also, though not for immersion. I'm leaning towards Spanish and then Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a working knowledge of Spanish, French, Russian, and Chinese (and one or two other languages that are more obscure).

For living in the US, Spanish is the way to go. You're much more likely to need it in every day scenarios compared to the others. At the same time, Spanish is relatively easy to learn compared to Russian and Chinese (uses Roman alphabet).

Forget French. It's great for intellectual reasons, but not that useful. Yes, I know many countries speak French, but even that's going out of style. For example, Rwanda changed their official language from French to English a couple years ago. You never see countries switching to French any more.

Russian is the lingua franca of most of Eastern Europe. I can get around in at least 20 countries with Russian, as the locals know it as a second or first language, or their own language is similar (Slavic).

Mandarin is the interesting one. First, the characters (referring to Simplified, not Traditional Chinese) do not map directly to spoken language. There are many dialects in China, and people may not be able to understand each other, but they can both understand the same characters. The reason is that the characters do not necessarily indicate pronunciation (yes, I know about pictophonetic characters but tell that to someone from Guangdong province). I'm assuming the schools teach standard Mandarin (putonghua). In terms of learning grammar, Chinese is actually pretty easy. Verbs are not declined, and there is no perfect tense. You basically have present and past tense only. The numbers are really easy also. Usefulness is the big question. If you plan to spend time in China or nearby countries, knowledge of Mandarin will be extremely useful as English skills are sorely lacking (this may be different in 20 years from now though). However, there are huge numbers of American children with Chinese parents who will get those jobs before any non-Chinese person due to more skills.

Ok, so that's not an answer. We're facing the same question also, though not for immersion. I'm leaning towards Spanish and then Chinese.

I agree with this, and I speak French! Totally useless when I worked on Wall Street and never came into play when I worked in BigLaw. My little anecdotes - friends whose language skills helped them with their careers spoke Spanish and Chinese. Both worked in global markets and both were native speakers. I think learning a second, third or fourth language is wonderful, but whether or not it will help you in a career over is a crap shoot. Like you said, there are so many native speakers in the US who have both linguistic and cultural knowledge (something that shouldn't be underestimated) of the language they speak, that non-native speakers will always be at a disadvantage. That said, we're teaching our LO Spanish, to start with, then we'll add more languages as we go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that Spanish is the only language in America that is used widely other than English. I see huge numbers of Indians, Arabs, French, and Chinese people around here and other areas of the US.

No one said that Spanish is the only foreign language that is used in this country. However, it is the most widely used foreign language in the US. This is not merely my opinion, it is simply a fact. If you don't like Spanish, for whatever reason, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You can teach your child Mandarin, Arabic, Urdu or whatever strikes your fancy. However, you will not find a more useful, everyday foreign language (in this country at least) than Spanish--sorry if that offends you.

And the service industries where speaking Spanish is helpful include: medicine/healthcare, law (as a lawyer, I know this first hand), international development work, social services, education (all levels), construction, etc. And your English fluency will take care of the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a working knowledge of Spanish, French, Russian, and Chinese (and one or two other languages that are more obscure).

For living in the US, Spanish is the way to go. You're much more likely to need it in every day scenarios compared to the others. At the same time, Spanish is relatively easy to learn compared to Russian and Chinese (uses Roman alphabet).

Forget French. It's great for intellectual reasons, but not that useful. Yes, I know many countries speak French, but even that's going out of style. For example, Rwanda changed their official language from French to English a couple years ago. You never see countries switching to French any more.

Russian is the lingua franca of most of Eastern Europe. I can get around in at least 20 countries with Russian, as the locals know it as a second or first language, or their own language is similar (Slavic).

Mandarin is the interesting one. First, the characters (referring to Simplified, not Traditional Chinese) do not map directly to spoken language. There are many dialects in China, and people may not be able to understand each other, but they can both understand the same characters. The reason is that the characters do not necessarily indicate pronunciation (yes, I know about pictophonetic characters but tell that to someone from Guangdong province). I'm assuming the schools teach standard Mandarin (putonghua). In terms of learning grammar, Chinese is actually pretty easy. Verbs are not declined, and there is no perfect tense. You basically have present and past tense only. The numbers are really easy also. Usefulness is the big question. If you plan to spend time in China or nearby countries, knowledge of Mandarin will be extremely useful as English skills are sorely lacking (this may be different in 20 years from now though). However, there are huge numbers of American children with Chinese parents who will get those jobs before any non-Chinese person due to more skills.

Ok, so that's not an answer. We're facing the same question also, though not for immersion. I'm leaning towards Spanish and then Chinese.

This is true but most Amercian born Chinese while they can speak Mandarin or Cantonese, more common, aren't literate. BIG difference. Also, it does not matter if whether a having a Chinese heritage is preferred. When the Chinese do business with foreigners, they are doing business with foreigners and don't expect "Chineseness" b/c non-native born Chinese aren't native born "Chinese". Literacy and ability to communication in Mandarin is the main thing and it doesn't matter whether you are a "Big Nose" or not.

[Anonymous]

Mom of bilingual kids here. Like several pp's have mentioned, it only makes sense to pick a language that you can support. And by support I don't mean that you actually need to speak the language yourself. DH and I are monolingual, but our kids are bilingual. I chose Spanish as their second language because I felt that it was easier for me to support outside of the immersion program they are in. I find it easier to find ways to engage them in the language outside of school without traveling to a Spanish speaking country. IMHO being in an immersion program will not produce bilingual/biliterate children without the outside exposure to the target language. It will likely lead to them being proficient, maybe, and that's not a bad thing if bilingualism isn't your goal. It takes a lot of effort to raise bilingual children, so I think the first step is to decide what the goal is and plan from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a working knowledge of Spanish, French, Russian, and Chinese (and one or two other languages that are more obscure).

For living in the US, Spanish is the way to go. You're much more likely to need it in every day scenarios compared to the others. At the same time, Spanish is relatively easy to learn compared to Russian and Chinese (uses Roman alphabet).

Forget French. It's great for intellectual reasons, but not that useful. Yes, I know many countries speak French, but even that's going out of style. For example, Rwanda changed their official language from French to English a couple years ago. You never see countries switching to French any more.

Russian is the lingua franca of most of Eastern Europe. I can get around in at least 20 countries with Russian, as the locals know it as a second or first language, or their own language is similar (Slavic).

Mandarin is the interesting one. First, the characters (referring to Simplified, not Traditional Chinese) do not map directly to spoken language. There are many dialects in China, and people may not be able to understand each other, but they can both understand the same characters. The reason is that the characters do not necessarily indicate pronunciation (yes, I know about pictophonetic characters but tell that to someone from Guangdong province). I'm assuming the schools teach standard Mandarin (putonghua). In terms of learning grammar, Chinese is actually pretty easy. Verbs are not declined, and there is no perfect tense. You basically have present and past tense only. The numbers are really easy also. Usefulness is the big question. If you plan to spend time in China or nearby countries, knowledge of Mandarin will be extremely useful as English skills are sorely lacking (this may be different in 20 years from now though). However, there are huge numbers of American children with Chinese parents who will get those jobs before any non-Chinese person due to more skills.

Ok, so that's not an answer. We're facing the same question also, though not for immersion. I'm leaning towards Spanish and then Chinese.

This is true but most Amercian born Chinese while they can speak Mandarin or Cantonese, more common, aren't literate. BIG difference. Also, it does not matter if whether a having a Chinese heritage is preferred. When the Chinese do business with foreigners, they are doing business with foreigners and don't expect "Chineseness" b/c non-native born Chinese aren't native born "Chinese". Literacy and ability to communication in Mandarin is the main thing and it doesn't matter whether you are a "Big Nose" or not.

she's fluent in Mandarin and got a decent job here in DC...

Madelyn Ross

Madelyn Ross is currently Director of China Initiatives at George Mason University, where she has worked on a variety of China-related programs and campus-wide educational initiatives since 2003. Prior to coming to Mason, she worked as an independent consultant to Asia-focused organizations and projects and spent nine years at The US-China Business Council, where she was editor of The China Business Review and Executive Director of The China Business Forum. Ms. Ross holds an M.A. in International Affairs from Columbia University and a B.A. in East Asian Studies from Princeton University. She also did graduate work at Fudan University in China, and has lived and worked in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Taipei.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a working knowledge of Spanish, French, Russian, and Chinese (and one or two other languages that are more obscure).

For living in the US, Spanish is the way to go. You're much more likely to need it in every day scenarios compared to the others. At the same time, Spanish is relatively easy to learn compared to Russian and Chinese (uses Roman alphabet).

Forget French. It's great for intellectual reasons, but not that useful. Yes, I know many countries speak French, but even that's going out of style. For example, Rwanda changed their official language from French to English a couple years ago. You never see countries switching to French any more.

Russian is the lingua franca of most of Eastern Europe. I can get around in at least 20 countries with Russian, as the locals know it as a second or first language, or their own language is similar (Slavic).

Mandarin is the interesting one. First, the characters (referring to Simplified, not Traditional Chinese) do not map directly to spoken language. There are many dialects in China, and people may not be able to understand each other, but they can both understand the same characters. The reason is that the characters do not necessarily indicate pronunciation (yes, I know about pictophonetic characters but tell that to someone from Guangdong province). I'm assuming the schools teach standard Mandarin (putonghua). In terms of learning grammar, Chinese is actually pretty easy. Verbs are not declined, and there is no perfect tense. You basically have present and past tense only. The numbers are really easy also. Usefulness is the big question. If you plan to spend time in China or nearby countries, knowledge of Mandarin will be extremely useful as English skills are sorely lacking (this may be different in 20 years from now though). However, there are huge numbers of American children with Chinese parents who will get those jobs before any non-Chinese person due to more skills.

Ok, so that's not an answer. We're facing the same question also, though not for immersion. I'm leaning towards Spanish and then Chinese.

This is true but most Amercian born Chinese while they can speak Mandarin or Cantonese, more common, aren't literate. BIG difference. Also, it does not matter if whether a having a Chinese heritage is preferred. When the Chinese do business with foreigners, they are doing business with foreigners and don't expect "Chineseness" b/c non-native born Chinese aren't native born "Chinese". Literacy and ability to communication in Mandarin is the main thing and it doesn't matter whether you are a "Big Nose" or not.

she's fluent in Mandarin and got a decent job here in DC...

Madelyn Ross

Madelyn Ross is currently Director of China Initiatives at George Mason University, where she has worked on a variety of China-related programs and campus-wide educational initiatives since 2003. Prior to coming to Mason, she worked as an independent consultant to Asia-focused organizations and projects and spent nine years at The US-China Business Council, where she was editor of The China Business Review and Executive Director of The China Business Forum. Ms. Ross holds an M.A. in International Affairs from Columbia University and a B.A. in East Asian Studies from Princeton University. She also did graduate work at Fudan University in China, and has lived and worked in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Taipei.

Thank you for posting that. My 8 year old son is absolutely in love with Chinese language and culture, and has been attending a local Chinese school for years on his own initiative(and is surrounded by Chinese-American children learning alongside him). I don't see any reason that he would lose out on jobs in the future because of the color of his skin.

[Anonymous]

I read several of the comments regarding Chinese as a language specifically used in Asian business dealings. Obviously, posters have limited their vision to Asian/American dealings.

My African-American child has been studying Chinese for 8 years with the goal towards somewhat fluency by the time graduating from college in four years. There are many avenues where a Chinese speaking African-American can have a tremendous advantage.

Looking at the bigger picture, I have directed my AA child towards China's increasing financial role and building of physical structures in Africa. There is absolutely no doubt that the knowledge of the language and culture (Africa and Chinese) will be a strong advantage should my AA child decide to work with American or any company who, along with China, are working with Africa.

It's the bigger global picture!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read several of the comments regarding Chinese as a language specifically used in Asian business dealings. Obviously, posters have limited their vision to Asian/American dealings.

My African-American child has been studying Chinese for 8 years with the goal towards somewhat fluency by the time graduating from college in four years. There are many avenues where a Chinese speaking African-American can have a tremendous advantage.

Looking at the bigger picture, I have directed my AA child towards China's increasing financial role and building of physical structures in Africa. There is absolutely no doubt that the knowledge of the language and culture (Africa and Chinese) will be a strong advantage should my AA child decide to work with American or any company who, along with China, are working with Africa.

It's the bigger global picture!!

I'm during the same thing for the exact same reason. I've lived in China, tons of Africans there, especially Nigerians and Ghanians learning to speak mandarin, fairly quickly too. I don't know how they do it.