Lance Armstrong is getting a raw deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ugh, are there no pro sports with clean stars? It's disgusting to me that we have no one for our children to really look up to.

I love sports, but if you really think about it, why should our children look up to professional athletes as any type of role models. They are talented entertainers. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't disagree, to be honest. I also don't disagree they should look up to their parents like another person said. But, as kids, you tend to watch sports and look for heroes. My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion). But, my point is, we tend to look up to/idolize our sports stars, whether it is warranted or not.

It is just sad to find out many years later that what we all believed was a heroic effort was not so heroic afterall. Those baseball records all have asterisks now, as will this, and many other sports "records."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

[Anonymous]

If everyone is doing it, then why are they only going after Armstrong so vehemently. Why not the other TdF winners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think cycling has been corrupted beyond help at this point. My teenage nephew is a nationally-ranked cyclist, and I fear for his health as he gets older and sucked into this culture. Parents can only protect a child for so long, and when "everyone else" is doing it and seeing results (and only getting caught sometimes), even the stalwarts fall.

As for Armstrong, I agree that there's a compelling case against him. One big problem is that if they strip the top guy of his medals b/c of doping, the awards will then just go to the 2nd most successful doper.

Hopefully your nephew can sign with Garmin-Sharp some day. Jonathan Vaughters runs a clean team!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can someone be "certain" he has doped, but he has NEVER failed a test? I don't think there has ever, in history, been an athlete under such a microscope. How could someone under such intense scrutiny pass every single test?

He has been consistent his entire career. No spikes, nothing-a steady achiever.

Apparently Marion Jones never failed a test either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If everyone is doing it, then why are they only going after Armstrong so vehemently. Why not the other TdF winners?

Uh, they have. Alberto Contador and Floyd Landis to name two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can someone be "certain" he has doped, but he has NEVER failed a test? I don't think there has ever, in history, been an athlete under such a microscope. How could someone under such intense scrutiny pass every single test?

He has been consistent his entire career. No spikes, nothing-a steady achiever.

I agree. This is BS to act as if we all "know."

As a parent, this is one of those things I mourn from our youth. Professional athletes were achievers but in a world separate from mine. I could admire Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron for what they did on and off the field. Today, the money and media coverage are 100x higher and our "heroes" wilt under the pressure.

We knew and loved Tiger Woods and his story until we found that, despite a decade of 24x7 coverage, we didn't know anything. There is not an athlete that I can point out to my son and say "that is a great person" because the next week it can all come crashing down. Lance Armstrong and Joe Paterno are two more that come to mind.

It's sad.

You shouldn't point out anyone that you don't know personally to your son as a "great person". Maybe a great athlete, performer, etc. but if you don't know them as a person, then you don't know if they are a great person. Without the coverage that we have now, how do we really know if the athletes from our youth were great people? Lance Armstrong is a great example of a cancer survivor, fund raiser, and bicycler. The drug issue has followed him for over a decade. I'm not surprised by this news at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wonder if I am the only one who thinks Lance Armstrong is getting a raw deal. I am prepared to be corrected but as far as I know he has never tested positive for doping, even though the USADA has tested his blood samples over and over. Now, years after his Tour de France is over, they have continued to test and retest and have still found nothing but have decided to ban him and strip him of his titles. He has appealed it and I am sure doing so has cost him money and has had an emotional impact. Yesterday he decided to stop the appeals and the USADA is acting like it is an admission of guilt and even acting like they have proven he was doping. He has been banned for life and his titles will be stripped.

I just think this is the epitome of unfair. I am totally opposed to doping but only if it is actually happening. If it isn't, I think an athlete's performance should stand on its own. During the time he is accused of doping, many cyclists were caught and received punishment. But they haven't proven he did anything and he is getting punished too. I just think this whole thing stinks so bad. Am I missing something?

I think you are missing some data. WADA used new testing methods for EPO on old samples and that is part of the case they were going to make before he gave up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

that is a whole different can of worms. and doesn't personally affect my daughter unless she truly becomes an elite gymnast competing at the int'l level.

Then there is also the constant pounding on young bodies and pressure to perform ever more dangerous moves in order to compete, as well as to compete through injury.

I didn't say it was a perfect sport, but at least no one is likely using illegal substances to enhance performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

that is a whole different can of worms. and doesn't personally affect my daughter unless she truly becomes an elite gymnast competing at the int'l level.

Then there is also the constant pounding on young bodies and pressure to perform ever more dangerous moves in order to compete, as well as to compete through injury.

I didn't say it was a perfect sport, but at least no one is likely using illegal substances to enhance performance.

Don't gymnasts use stuff and methods to delay puberty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

that is a whole different can of worms. and doesn't personally affect my daughter unless she truly becomes an elite gymnast competing at the int'l level.

Then there is also the constant pounding on young bodies and pressure to perform ever more dangerous moves in order to compete, as well as to compete through injury.

I didn't say it was a perfect sport, but at least no one is likely using illegal substances to enhance performance.

Don't gymnasts use stuff and methods to delay puberty?

Just near-starvation.

[Anonymous]

On one hand, the pressure to dope was intense in those days and my heart goes out to cyclists who felt they had to choose between having a career at all (the "domestiques" who support the stars) and riding clean. I certainly understand why Armstrong felt he had to dope. I think it would serve the sport best just to have a general amnesty for riders in that era because how would you know any of the runners-up were any cleaner than Armstrong. Jan Ullrich certainly wasn't! Marco Pantani either!

On the other hand, over the years there has been a fair bit of evidence coming out against Armstrong and his reaction has been to attack the people who were most likely telling the truth. Can you imagine saying this about Lance Armstrong back when everyone revered him? Not good for your career at all. (See Betsy and Frankie Andreu.)

Here's how soigneur Emma O'Reilly described the harassment she endured after reporting on suspected drug use by Lance:

http://bicycling.com/blogs/theselection/2011/04/27/emma-o%E2%80%99reilly-responds-to-strickland%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cendgame%E2%80%9D/

And I think it was at his 6th TdF win that he gave a speech on the podium implying that this showed you could win clean and people shouldn't be so cynical about cycling.

So I used to admire Lance and although I believed the Andreus' testimony that they heard him describe his drug use in his hospital room (back when he was fighting cancer), I had hoped he wasn't drugging anymore. But over the years I've watched as a guy I used to admire acted more and more like a bully towards people who had far less power than he did.

Of course, this is the problem with drugging. If you're accused, you have to admit or deny. It's hard to admit early in the process but if you wait till later you've lost a lot of credibility. David Millar admitted what he did and paid the price and he now has a cycling career. Jonathan Vaughters admitted after he retired from competition and then started a cycling team (Garmin-Sharp) that has a reputation for being successful and clean. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis denied and denied before finally admitting the truth, waiting so long to tell the truth that their careers are in tatters.

What bothers me about Lance is not so much that he denied, but that in doing so he acted like a jerk and hurt innocent people, when he is supposed to be this great guy who's fighting cancer. I know there are pps who admire Lance a lot and have a hard time believing he was involved in doping but folks there is a growing pile of evidence out there. Sorry to tell you that but it's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

that is a whole different can of worms. and doesn't personally affect my daughter unless she truly becomes an elite gymnast competing at the int'l level.

Then there is also the constant pounding on young bodies and pressure to perform ever more dangerous moves in order to compete, as well as to compete through injury.

I didn't say it was a perfect sport, but at least no one is likely using illegal substances to enhance performance.

Don't gymnasts use stuff and methods to delay puberty?

Not that I know of... But I did read that the fitness level of the rhythmic gymnastic does delay puberty. Overtraining can cause young girls to miss their periods or have irregular periods or can cause their periods to stop completely (especially in girls who have been intensely training in gymnastics for a majority of their lives).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He doped for 20 years, just like nearly everyone else in cycling. They had at least 10 former teammates who were eyewitnesses lined up ready to testify. They obviously had a very compelling case or he would not have given up his entire career and Tour victories. As for passing drug tests, he was simply better at it than others. I think it is still OK to admire him, but with your eyes open.

I totally agree with this. i think the sport knew what was going on and colluded with the athletes so they are equally culpable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter currently loves the US Women's Gymnastics team after watching them at the Olympics. Actually, that is likely one of the least corrupted sports (drug wise), in addition to tennis (I watched a lot of tennis as a kid - that is a good suggestion).

I see what you're saying regarding gymnastics and (most likely) very little drug use, but there is the issue of countries passing off very young girls as 16 year olds. That's not fun to explain either.

that is a whole different can of worms. and doesn't personally affect my daughter unless she truly becomes an elite gymnast competing at the int'l level.

Then there is also the constant pounding on young bodies and pressure to perform ever more dangerous moves in order to compete, as well as to compete through injury.

I didn't say it was a perfect sport, but at least no one is likely using illegal substances to enhance performance.

Don't gymnasts use stuff and methods to delay puberty?

Not that I know of... But I did read that the fitness level of the rhythmic gymnastic does delay puberty. Overtraining can cause young girls to miss their periods or have irregular periods or can cause their periods to stop completely (especially in girls who have been intensely training in gymnastics for a majority of their lives).

I think you mean artistic gymnastics. The requirement of 16 years old in olympic year has made most "women" gymnasts look at least like teenagers.