New SOLs -- the contrast between Arlington and Alexandria City's failing Public Schools

[Anonymous]

Let's just re-post this again, shall we?

Alexandria's FARMS is 53%

Arlington's FARMS is 32%


And yes, OP, my point is that poor kids do worse in school, across the board, across the US, for the past 60 years, in every district in every state. Every color of poor kid, too, so don't bait us with the "you hate brown kids" red herring. There are a handful of exceptions of course, like KIPP and KIPPesque intensive schools. And they're so notable for being exceptions that every time one emerges anywhere in the United States ... they have make a movie about it! Either a Superman documentary or a Miramax special with Edward James Olmos.

Of course I don't have the answer myself. but we're gonna keep you honest over there, and not let you deny 7 decades worth of data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's just re-post this again, shall we?

Alexandria's FARMS is 53%

Arlington's FARMS is 32%


And yes, OP, my point is that poor kids do worse in school, across the board, across the US, for the past 60 years, in every district in every state. Every color of poor kid, too, so don't bait us with the "you hate brown kids" red herring. There are a handful of exceptions of course, like KIPP and KIPPesque intensive schools. And they're so notable for being exceptions that every time one emerges anywhere in the United States ... they have make a movie about it! Either a Superman documentary or a Miramax special with Edward James Olmos.

Of course I don't have the answer myself. but we're gonna keep you honest over there, and not let you deny 7 decades worth of data.

You're still making excuses and rationalizing. Arlington schools with high FARMs dramatically outperformed ACPS. Which suggests something else is going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's just re-post this again, shall we?

Alexandria's FARMS is 53%

Arlington's FARMS is 32%


And yes, OP, my point is that poor kids do worse in school, across the board, across the US, for the past 60 years, in every district in every state. Every color of poor kid, too, so don't bait us with the "you hate brown kids" red herring. There are a handful of exceptions of course, like KIPP and KIPPesque intensive schools. And they're so notable for being exceptions that every time one emerges anywhere in the United States ... they have make a movie about it! Either a Superman documentary or a Miramax special with Edward James Olmos.

Of course I don't have the answer myself. but we're gonna keep you honest over there, and not let you deny 7 decades worth of data.

You're still making excuses and rationalizing. Arlington schools with high FARMs dramatically outperformed ACPS. Which suggests something else is going on.

Even in other areas of the state with comparable FARMS stats, Alex City still did worse. They even managed to do worse than Prince Edward County. That's really bad.

[Anonymous]

I think the plummeting Middle School math scores are a direct result of three things:

(1) ACPS is pressuring kids to accelerate their math courses so that 8th graders will take either Algebra 1 or Geometry. The District keeps crowing about the huge increases in the number of kids taking these Algebra I/Geometry in middle school. The result: somewhat lower pass rates for Alg. 1 and Geometry, because all the kids with even slightly above average math skills have been pressed to accelerate, and ATROCIOUS 8th grade math courses becaue only the kids at the bottom of the barrel are taking "8th Grade Math" anymore.

(2) ACPS was concerned about NCLB sanctions. Because of this, they were more focused on "teaching to the test" than other surrounding districts that didn't have to worry about NCLB sanctions. So, in the year that the test changed--the scores dropped much more heavily here.

(3) Everyday Math. I recognize that other surrounding districts use it, too. But it's shortcomings are even more problematic in a place like Alexandria. There's a reason this curriculum is nicknamed "Everynight Math." Parents are spending their evenings teaching their kids to memorize the math facts that are no longer stressed in this horrible curriculum. In places like Alexandria where you have a lot of poor families who aren't doing a lot of extra work with their kids at night and on weekends, the shortcomings of Everyday Math are exacerbated.

As an ACPS parent who has been trying to support the system, I am very disappointed by the article on ACPS's website that tries to put a positive spin on the district's test results and labels the drop in Math scores "expected" because of the new test. It should not have been expected that our scores fall that far below the state average--and the district better take some ACTION because of it.

[Anonymous]

I'm not only disappointed in acps's write-up, I'm insulted. Did they really think they could get away with that? Come on. I live in Alexandria with a three year old and I really wanted to be proud of a system that may have its challenges, but was aware of and dealt with them in a straight forward manner. If some posters here, including an acps middle school teacher, are able to proffer reasonable explanations behind the shocking score gap, then Acps should have provided reasons in its write up. It speaks volumes that they did not. What in the world were they thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the plummeting Middle School math scores are a direct result of three things:

(1) ACPS is pressuring kids to accelerate their math courses so that 8th graders will take either Algebra 1 or Geometry. The District keeps crowing about the huge increases in the number of kids taking these Algebra I/Geometry in middle school. The result: somewhat lower pass rates for Alg. 1 and Geometry, because all the kids with even slightly above average math skills have been pressed to accelerate, and ATROCIOUS 8th grade math courses becaue only the kids at the bottom of the barrel are taking "8th Grade Math" anymore.

(2) ACPS was concerned about NCLB sanctions. Because of this, they were more focused on "teaching to the test" than other surrounding districts that didn't have to worry about NCLB sanctions. So, in the year that the test changed--the scores dropped much more heavily here.

(3) Everyday Math. I recognize that other surrounding districts use it, too. But it's shortcomings are even more problematic in a place like Alexandria. There's a reason this curriculum is nicknamed "Everynight Math." Parents are spending their evenings teaching their kids to memorize the math facts that are no longer stressed in this horrible curriculum. In places like Alexandria where you have a lot of poor families who aren't doing a lot of extra work with their kids at night and on weekends, the shortcomings of Everyday Math are exacerbated.

As an ACPS parent who has been trying to support the system, I am very disappointed by the article on ACPS's website that tries to put a positive spin on the district's test results and labels the drop in Math scores "expected" because of the new test. It should not have been expected that our scores fall that far below the state average--and the district better take some ACTION because of it.

You just hit the nail on the head. Failure is expected in ACPS. Elsewhere in NOVA, excellence is expected. That's the fundamental difference. And it's a CULTURAL and INSTITUTIONAL problem moreso than a FARMs one.

[Anonymous]

what's the "pass rate" score/rate? is it 60%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the plummeting Middle School math scores are a direct result of three things:

(1) ACPS is pressuring kids to accelerate their math courses so that 8th graders will take either Algebra 1 or Geometry. The District keeps crowing about the huge increases in the number of kids taking these Algebra I/Geometry in middle school. The result: somewhat lower pass rates for Alg. 1 and Geometry, because all the kids with even slightly above average math skills have been pressed to accelerate, and ATROCIOUS 8th grade math courses becaue only the kids at the bottom of the barrel are taking "8th Grade Math" anymore.

(2) ACPS was concerned about NCLB sanctions. Because of this, they were more focused on "teaching to the test" than other surrounding districts that didn't have to worry about NCLB sanctions. So, in the year that the test changed--the scores dropped much more heavily here.

(3) Everyday Math. I recognize that other surrounding districts use it, too. But it's shortcomings are even more problematic in a place like Alexandria. There's a reason this curriculum is nicknamed "Everynight Math." Parents are spending their evenings teaching their kids to memorize the math facts that are no longer stressed in this horrible curriculum. In places like Alexandria where you have a lot of poor families who aren't doing a lot of extra work with their kids at night and on weekends, the shortcomings of Everyday Math are exacerbated.

As an ACPS parent who has been trying to support the system, I am very disappointed by the article on ACPS's website that tries to put a positive spin on the district's test results and labels the drop in Math scores "expected" because of the new test. It should not have been expected that our scores fall that far below the state average--and the district better take some ACTION because of it.

Does anyone know long has ACPS been using "Everyday Math"? I am an ACPS parent and I was told by a principal that these low scores would be making headlines, but she explained that it was due to a new math curriculum that did not teach to the test. Does this ring any bells for those of you more in-the-know?

[Anonymous]

I'm confused.

OP - what is your point here? That APSs outperform ACPSs? No shit. I don't think anybody has really said any differently here.

I think most everybody agrees that we'd like to see ACPSs do better.

But some people believe that despite lower test scores, their children will do just fine in the ACPSs and they in fact DO do just fine, especially in many of the elementary schools.

I just don't understand why some Arlington residents care this much about ACPSs. I mean, really - move on already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.

OP - what is your point here? That APSs outperform ACPSs? No shit. I don't think anybody has really said any differently here.

I think most everybody agrees that we'd like to see ACPSs do better.

But some people believe that despite lower test scores, their children will do just fine in the ACPSs and they in fact DO do just fine, especially in many of the elementary schools.

I just don't understand why some Arlington residents care this much about ACPSs. I mean, really - move on already.

It's ok that you've accepted your fate. Most people wouldn't consider those elementary school numbers to be acceptable and would be pushing the school board and administration to actually do something rather than make empty happy talk.

It's relevant b/c the question gets asked in this forum all the time about whether someone should buy in Alexandria City. Results in a lot of shouting. These are just new numbers to inform the discussion.

[Anonymous]

The irony (and tragedy) is that the kids who were scoring badly on the tests throughout the year were forced to give up an elective and take - more math. Most of the math teachers even stayed after school and held math labs several times a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.

OP - what is your point here? That APSs outperform ACPSs? No shit. I don't think anybody has really said any differently here.

I think most everybody agrees that we'd like to see ACPSs do better.

But some people believe that despite lower test scores, their children will do just fine in the ACPSs and they in fact DO do just fine, especially in many of the elementary schools.

I just don't understand why some Arlington residents care this much about ACPSs. I mean, really - move on already.

It's ok that you've accepted your fate. Most people wouldn't consider those elementary school numbers to be acceptable and would be pushing the school board and administration to actually do something rather than make empty happy talk.

It's relevant b/c the question gets asked in this forum all the time about whether someone should buy in Alexandria City. Results in a lot of shouting. These are just new numbers to inform the discussion.

Actually, I moved out of ACPS. So no - I didn't "accept" my fate. I was fine with the elementary schools and absolutely would not have sent my children to the middle schools. Still unsure about the high schools, but we moved to Fairfax Co. for a variety of reasons.

I also don't think people are generally accepting their fate. There is quite a lot of disgust within the community (we still own our house in the City of Alex.) with the school board and there is quite a vocal/active group of parents going to school board meetings and the like.

So why the axe to grind? The test scores are pretty easily accessible to potential buyers considering Alexandria. It IS a great place to live for a variety of reasons and most of the elementary schools are fine. There is a BIG problem with George Washington, but ACPSs are not all bad.

[Anonymous]

I am curious, what do you think is the BIG problem with GW?


I have my own ideas, of course, but what do you think they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's ok that you've accepted your fate. Most people wouldn't consider those elementary school numbers to be acceptable and would be pushing the school board and administration to actually do something rather than make empty happy talk.

It's relevant b/c the question gets asked in this forum all the time about whether someone should buy in Alexandria City. Results in a lot of shouting. These are just new numbers to inform the discussion.

Actually, I moved out of ACPS. So no - I didn't "accept" my fate. I was fine with the elementary schools and absolutely would not have sent my children to the middle schools. Still unsure about the high schools, but we moved to Fairfax Co. for a variety of reasons.

I also don't think people are generally accepting their fate. There is quite a lot of disgust within the community (we still own our house in the City of Alex.) with the school board and there is quite a vocal/active group of parents going to school board meetings and the like.

So why the axe to grind? The test scores are pretty easily accessible to potential buyers considering Alexandria. It IS a great place to live for a variety of reasons and most of the elementary schools are fine. There is a BIG problem with George Washington, but ACPSs are not all bad.

Arlington schools are overcrowded and there's going to be major redistricting within the next few years. Apparently it makes at least one Arlington poster feel better about the situation to compare Arlington and Alexandria SOL scores. If she gave us her address, we could send her a pacifier instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious, what do you think is the BIG problem with GW?


I have my own ideas, of course, but what do you think they are?

I wonder about this, too.
Hammond had some downward slides, but the drop at GW is so bad I'm honestly wondering if it is a typo?
GW1 Grade 8 Math from 77 to 7?!?!
GW2 Grade 8 Math from 77 to 13?!?!

Is the ACPS Middle School teacher still reading this thread? I'd love to get some thoughts from someone "on the ground".
Here's my guess, but I would love confirmation
There was a big push to get 8th grade to take Algebra, so the students left taking Math 8 are really struggling, hence the low scores?