German court bans circumcision for non-medical reasons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW, I'm surprised Germany would enforce anything remotely anti Semitic

I'm not at all surprised. This just proves they have not come nearly as far as they may think they have. I find this ruling highly anti-semitic. I've been taught to always remember and never forget and THIS is why. Germany doesn't seem to be headed in the right direction.

REALLY PP? You think denying parents right to remove a body part from unconsenting children is akin to the holocaust?

Holy shit.

You are not jewish are you. It's obvious. The ruling infringes on the religious freedoms of ANY group who practices circumcision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, I have to disagree that it is rarely a religious thing. I have two Jewish friends that were really torn about the issue recently. They weren't strongly opposed to it, but didn't feel it was medically necessary, and probably wouldn't have done it but for the religious aspect.

This describes me.

Frankly, I'm appalled at the decision. Given Germany's history, they need to be bending backwards not to infringe on anyone's religious practice. This is especially true when the evidence of harm for male circumcision is mixed, at best (compared to the evidence of risk of female cutting, which is overwhelming).

Perhaps it is because of that history that they want to prevent unnecessary suffering and permanent harm (the evidence is pretty overwhelming that the cut portion will not grow back, isn't it), especially among innocent children without a say. When boys reach 18, they can decide. And, as previous PPs have noted, this ruling is going to protect many more Muslim boys than Jewish ones.

[Anonymous]

I know it is easy to think of this as anti-jewish or muslim but lets look at it this way. These countries are banning circumcision because THEY believe it is a human rights violation. If something is a human rights violation it doesn't make sense to have any exemptions religious or not because something doesn't automatically become less of a violation just because it has religious backing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WOW, I'm surprised Germany would enforce anything remotely anti Semitic

This +1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW, I'm surprised Germany would enforce anything remotely anti Semitic

I'm not at all surprised. This just proves they have not come nearly as far as they may think they have. I find this ruling highly anti-semitic. I've been taught to always remember and never forget and THIS is why. Germany doesn't seem to be headed in the right direction.

REALLY PP? You think denying parents right to remove a body part from unconsenting children is akin to the holocaust?

Holy shit.

You are not jewish are you. It's obvious. The ruling infringes on the religious freedoms of ANY group who practices circumcision.

Are you okay with female circumcision for religious reasons?

Oliver Wendell Holmes said: your rights end where mine begin.

Some fringe evangelicals believe that it is justifiable to kill an abortion doctor. They do this because their religion requires that they do all they can to save the innocent fetus. Likewise, the Jihad, is a religious mandate for some followers of Islam. Are you okay with that?

And no, I am not Jewish, though my best friend is Jewish and we've discussed this at length. As someone with a survivor grandparent, she'd slap your face for your appalling comparison.

http://www.beyondthebris.com/ http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:29, You have no idea what you are talking about. Circumcision is OFTEN if not ALWAYS about religion in my Jewish friends' circles. Many feel very conflicted abut it, but there is an inner pull to do this seemingly painful, possibly unuseful thing to your 8 day old. We are VERY conflicted, yet do it because of our faith. I am actually shocked by Germany's decision, and will bounce it off my German friend to see what he thinks...

"Seemingly" painful? How deep in denial are you?
It hurts. A lot. If you really doubt that, watch this is a video of a routine infant circumcision, done by a dr. in a medical setting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXVFFI76ff0

[Anonymous]

my understanding it is that the ban specifically states that Doctors can not perform circumcisions.

So they didn't ban circumcisions they banned doctors from performing them unless medically needed.

[Anonymous]

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/245097.page#2553671

the ban was posted about here also

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Germany has a population of 80 million. 200000 of them are jewish, and only half of them actually practice their religion. That's not even 1% of the country. Somehow I doubt that they made this decision to "get back at the jews"...

Why, exactly, do you think that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my understanding it is that the ban specifically states that Doctors can not perform circumcisions.

So they didn't ban circumcisions they banned doctors from performing them unless medically needed.

thanks for pointing that out, I missed that it's banning only doctors.
I'm conflicted about that. On one hand, I think it's a step in the right direction; on another, I'm concerned that parents who still want their children circumcised will have unqualified people do the surgery, to the detriment of the little boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my understanding it is that the ban specifically states that Doctors can not perform circumcisions.

So they didn't ban circumcisions they banned doctors from performing them unless medically needed.

thanks for pointing that out, I missed that it's banning only doctors.
I'm conflicted about that. On one hand, I think it's a step in the right direction; on another, I'm concerned that parents who still want their children circumcised will have unqualified people do the surgery, to the detriment of the little boys.

I'm vehemently anti-circumcision but in Jewish ceremonies it is already not performed by a doctor, it is performed by a Mohel. The protestors on this thread either don't get that or are just somehow furious that their religion is being curtailed simply by the notion that calling the abuse of little boys isn't going to happen in the name of MEDICINE anymore. So they'll have to just say my cult makes me do it when they talk about why they want to lop off part of the penis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my understanding it is that the ban specifically states that Doctors can not perform circumcisions.

So they didn't ban circumcisions they banned doctors from performing them unless medically needed.

thanks for pointing that out, I missed that it's banning only doctors.
I'm conflicted about that. On one hand, I think it's a step in the right direction; on another, I'm concerned that parents who still want their children circumcised will have unqualified people do the surgery, to the detriment of the little boys.

I'm vehemently anti-circumcision but in Jewish ceremonies it is already not performed by a doctor, it is performed by a Mohel. The protestors on this thread either don't get that or are just somehow furious that their religion is being curtailed simply by the notion that calling the abuse of little boys isn't going to happen in the name of MEDICINE anymore. So they'll have to just say my cult makes me do it when they talk about why they want to lop off part of the penis.

My brother (who is Jewish - although I am not) had his son circumcised by a mohel who was a doctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my understanding it is that the ban specifically states that Doctors can not perform circumcisions.

So they didn't ban circumcisions they banned doctors from performing them unless medically needed.

thanks for pointing that out, I missed that it's banning only doctors.
I'm conflicted about that. On one hand, I think it's a step in the right direction; on another, I'm concerned that parents who still want their children circumcised will have unqualified people do the surgery, to the detriment of the little boys.

I'm vehemently anti-circumcision but in Jewish ceremonies it is already not performed by a doctor, it is performed by a Mohel. The protestors on this thread either don't get that or are just somehow furious that their religion is being curtailed simply by the notion that calling the abuse of little boys isn't going to happen in the name of MEDICINE anymore. So they'll have to just say my cult makes me do it when they talk about why they want to lop off part of the penis.

By the way...super klassy argument.

[Anonymous]

Circumcision is barbaric and Germany realizes it.

I'm sure the parents of the boys who contracted Hep B in NYC from the mohel using his mouth on their sons' penises wish circs had been banned now too. One of the boys died, all in the name of religious fanatisicm.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618

[Anonymous]

Considering it prevents stds, hiv, utis, cancer then you should be able to get one by stating the above rather than religious reasoning.