Our stupid-ass PTA fought bigger classrooms and were shocked -- SHOCKED -- to see trailers show up.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the op. smaller classes are better. That is common sense, I don't need research to confirm. And so if they need trailers for more classes, who cares?

You seem to be mad at the PTA for lobbying for something sensible. Maybe some misplaced anger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the op. smaller classes are better. That is common sense, I don't need research to confirm. And so if they need trailers for more classes, who cares?

You seem to be mad at the PTA for lobbying for something sensible. Maybe some misplaced anger?

The problem is the research contradicts your "common sense." Your intuition is not accurate. Life is full of contradictions like this, which is why we do research. For centuries, intuition told people the world was flat and that sun revolved around the Earth.

It matters because if you don't have to hire more teachers to keep class sizes unnecessarily small, you could spend those resources on other needed things. A consultant just told the APS board this last week!

It also matters because if you lobby for smaller class sizes and then trailers show up to accomodate that, you really shouldn't go batshit crazy over the appearance of trailers. You certainly shouldn't compose a totally unhinged and petulant letter to everyone in the county that misspells the board chairwoman's name to demand they be moved without first consulting the rest of the parenting community. I know for a fact after making some phone calls to people in the system that they are being dismissed as a bunch of hysterical women. So, we'll be replacing them at the first opportunity, hopefully with a slade of dads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So, we'll be replacing them at the first opportunity, hopefully with a slade of dads.

I'm not sure a slade would be a benefit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/slade-smiley-deadbeat-dad-red-carpet_n_1400690.html

[Anonymous]

Cite your source.

Unlike the flat-earth folks, I have untaken a very scientific study in my own home which has shown that the more kids I have, the less time I have to spend with them individually. I think if you spent a day in a classroom of 32 seven year olds you'd have a different view. While class size alone will not solve all the problems, all things being equal, it's clearly better to have less kids per class than the insane 35 per class FFX is cramming in there. With your alledged research, why not just make one big class? They can all sit in the gym.

So you did have an ax to grind with the PTA. Maybe your PTA members are nuts, who knows. Maybe you drove them to it, I can see that happening. As a family that does lots of volunteering in the school and sports, it never fails to amaze me what pita sideline parents that do nothing are. I cant wait to see your PTA overrun with Dads, that will be a first. Good luck recruiting! Be sure to post after your elections and let us know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cite your source.

Sources cited earlier in thread. Try to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cite your source.

Unlike the flat-earth folks, I have untaken a very scientific study in my own home which has shown that the more kids I have, the less time I have to spend with them individually. I think if you spent a day in a classroom of 32 seven year olds you'd have a different view. While class size alone will not solve all the problems, all things being equal, it's clearly better to have less kids per class than the insane 35 per class FFX is cramming in there. With your alledged research, why not just make one big class? They can all sit in the gym.

So you did have an ax to grind with the PTA. Maybe your PTA members are nuts, who knows. Maybe you drove them to it, I can see that happening. As a family that does lots of volunteering in the school and sports, it never fails to amaze me what pita sideline parents that do nothing are. I cant wait to see your PTA overrun with Dads, that will be a first. Good luck recruiting! Be sure to post after your elections and let us know.

1) Class size doesn't matter. Teaching method does. So, yes, they can all sit in the gym and learn. We do this at the collegiate level, you know. They're called lecture halls.

2) Pretty sure a PTA full of Dads would be far more effective and efficient than one run by mommies.

[Anonymous]

I am a Jamestown parent. I'm happy with the PTA. Parental involvement is good. I don't have them, but I think their concerns about the placement of the trailers are valid. If their most egregious act is the incorrect spelling of a name there's no problem here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cite your source.

Unlike the flat-earth folks, I have untaken a very scientific study in my own home which has shown that the more kids I have, the less time I have to spend with them individually. I think if you spent a day in a classroom of 32 seven year olds you'd have a different view. While class size alone will not solve all the problems, all things being equal, it's clearly better to have less kids per class than the insane 35 per class FFX is cramming in there. With your alledged research, why not just make one big class? They can all sit in the gym.

So you did have an ax to grind with the PTA. Maybe your PTA members are nuts, who knows. Maybe you drove them to it, I can see that happening. As a family that does lots of volunteering in the school and sports, it never fails to amaze me what pita sideline parents that do nothing are. I cant wait to see your PTA overrun with Dads, that will be a first. Good luck recruiting! Be sure to post after your elections and let us

Quick nitpick! I have two kids who are in elementary school in McLean who have never had more than 24 kids in their class. Hope I didn't jinx myself! Continue on...

[Anonymous]

We had 21 in k, 25 in 1st grade, 27 in 2nd grade, and our 3rd grade AAP classes are expected to be 35.

Personally, I didnt find my two lecture hall classes in undergrad the pinncale of learning. My phD classes averaged around 15 and that was for good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Jamestown parent. I'm happy with the PTA. Parental involvement is good. I don't have them, but I think their concerns about the placement of the trailers are valid. If their most egregious act is the incorrect spelling of a name there's no problem here.

The sloppy spelling was the least of the mistake in that letter.

It was petulant, ineffectively combative, and, frankly since you think your concerns are valid, you should be very upset that the PTA dismissed your concerns as "gripes" in their letter. It was an embarrasing letter.

Those trailers are fine where they are. They should not be moved to the back field -- it's a safety issue and staff is worried, VALIDLY, about working back there at night when they have to work late.

Jamestown is the last of Arlington's schools to get trailers. No one else complained about it. The PTA is really and truly reactionary, infantile, and ineffective.

[Anonymous]

FINE, you lazy PP. See that "Search" function on the upper left-hand function? I ran the search for you. To wit:

I've done plenty of research. The empirical research shows time and time again teaching methods matter, not class size, and that teachers generally don't change their methods based on class size. So proud that you can Google, but you skipped the more relevant literature.

There are some exceptions when lower income populations are involved, but that's not relevant to FCPS.

You're the one who's dead wrong. Don't chime in when you're ignorant of the facts.

Here's one meta analysis: http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/115/4/1239.short. Right in the abstract (since I know you wouldn't understand the report itself): "The estimates indicate that class size does not have a statistically significant effect on student achievement."

Or maybe you prefer: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini...SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ431933 Abstract: "Reduced class size may improve school tone and morale, but it is not an adequate policy alone for significantly accelerating student achievement"

Dutch study points out research from educators is different from that of economists: http://www1.fee.uva.nl/scholar/wp/wp04-99.pdf


You are wrong, I am right. Please, in the future, don't post about things you don't understand.

Seriously? This is your extensive research? Did you even bother to read these studies?

Your strongest case is the first study. One. Study. Hardly the overwhelming facts you asserted.

Screaming the loudest doesn't make you right. Good research does. And you fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Jamestown parent. I'm happy with the PTA. Parental involvement is good. I don't have them, but I think their concerns about the placement of the trailers are valid. If their most egregious act is the incorrect spelling of a name there's no problem here.

The sloppy spelling was the least of the mistake in that letter.

It was petulant, ineffectively combative, and, frankly since you think your concerns are valid, you should be very upset that the PTA dismissed your concerns as "gripes" in their letter. It was an embarrasing letter.

Those trailers are fine where they are. They should not be moved to the back field -- it's a safety issue and staff is worried, VALIDLY, about working back there at night when they have to work late.

Jamestown is the last of Arlington's schools to get trailers. No one else complained about it. The PTA is really and truly reactionary, infantile, and ineffective.

I like your post, but I think Jamestown may only be the last to get trailers north of lee highway. There are plenty of aps schools still without trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

FINE, you lazy PP. See that "Search" function on the upper left-hand function? I ran the search for you. To wit:

I've done plenty of research. The empirical research shows time and time again teaching methods matter, not class size, and that teachers generally don't change their methods based on class size. So proud that you can Google, but you skipped the more relevant literature.

There are some exceptions when lower income populations are involved, but that's not relevant to FCPS.

You're the one who's dead wrong. Don't chime in when you're ignorant of the facts.

Here's one meta analysis: http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/115/4/1239.short. Right in the abstract (since I know you wouldn't understand the report itself): "The estimates indicate that class size does not have a statistically significant effect on student achievement."

Or maybe you prefer: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini...SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ431933 Abstract: "Reduced class size may improve school tone and morale, but it is not an adequate policy alone for significantly accelerating student achievement"

Dutch study points out research from educators is different from that of economists: http://www1.fee.uva.nl/scholar/wp/wp04-99.pdf


You are wrong, I am right. Please, in the future, don't post about things you don't understand.

Seriously? This is your extensive research? Did you even bother to read these studies?

Your strongest case is the first study. One. Study. Hardly the overwhelming facts you asserted.

Screaming the loudest doesn't make you right. Good research does. And you fail.

Seriously, it is.

More to the point: No evidence proves smaller class sizes correlate with achievement, except in very limited cirumstances that don't apply to an affluent area like Arlington.. That's the benchmark you're looking for and it does not exist. The onus is on proponents to class size to prove it makes a difference -- you cannot. Ergo, it's not worth the investment if funds could be allocated somewhere else more efficiently and effectively.