Washington International Ranked # 3 in Region/Rigor & Results

[Anonymous]

Haven't read Mr. Matthew's Blog, but just read the article linked here from the Post. I did not know that students no longer need a teacher rec to take an AP class. I disagree with Mr. Mattews assertion that ," leaving AP placement up to teachers denies the opportunity to students who want to challenge themselves" . I think his theory, though admirable, that "if given the opportunity more kids would work hard" is based on the premise that there is no other motivation to taking an AP class than the pursuit of knowledge. That may have been true when Mr Mattews and I were in HS, but unfortunately, that is no longer true.

Unfortunately, in the uber competitive college admissions process we live in, there is one other very powerful motivator for students to take and get a good grade in an AP class: weighted GPA on a college application. That folks, has nothing to do with allowing education to be a great leveller in lower income neighborhoods, as Mr Mattews hopes, and EVERYTHING to do with the epidemic of cheating , and cramming ( both forms of intellectual disshonesty) prevalent among AP enrollees in today's High Schools. Like with " no child left behind" , even "honors" courses have lost out to teach to the test. Sadly, in some cases even schools buy into it by allowing anyone to sign up for an " Honors" or AP class, just to inflate their school's ranking on some shallow metric. Heck, it is a great way for a pricipal and educators to preserve their jobs, and why not? The kids don't even have to pass the exam, they just have to take it....

I say, lets go back to letting the professionals ( the educators) decide what students ( as they have been teaching them for years) demonstrate the kinds of intellectual curiosity, depth of thought, and original thinking to contribute to a class discussion in a meaninful way in an AP class. After all, it is the course work, the reading and the discourse in class that follows the reading and studying that is the heart of learning that goes on in an AP class, not the test score at end of the year. In other words," the great leveller" in education lies in the end product of a developed , educate mind , Mr. Matthews, not a test score, especially if one got it by cramming.

[Anonymous]

I thought only publics weighted the GPA for APs. I know my DC's private does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought only publics weighted the GPA for APs. I know my DC's private does not.

Read Matthews article ( the link is above) He is advocating for open enrollment on demand for AP classes in all schools in America. It is the reason he gives for why he invented his " competitiveness quotient". He is talking about all schools , all education, public and private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read Mr. Matthew's Blog, but just read the article linked here from the Post. I did not know that students no longer need a teacher rec to take an AP class. I disagree with Mr. Mattews assertion that ," leaving AP placement up to teachers denies the opportunity to students who want to challenge themselves" . I think his theory, though admirable, that "if given the opportunity more kids would work hard" is based on the premise that there is no other motivation to taking an AP class than the pursuit of knowledge. That may have been true when Mr Mattews and I were in HS, but unfortunately, that is no longer true.

Unfortunately, in the uber competitive college admissions process we live in, there is one other very powerful motivator for students to take and get a good grade in an AP class: weighted GPA on a college application. That folks, has nothing to do with allowing education to be a great leveller in lower income neighborhoods, as Mr Mattews hopes, and EVERYTHING to do with the epidemic of cheating , and cramming ( both forms of intellectual disshonesty) prevalent among AP enrollees in today's High Schools. Like with " no child left behind" , even "honors" courses have lost out to teach to the test. Sadly, in some cases even schools buy into it by allowing anyone to sign up for an " Honors" or AP class, just to inflate their school's ranking on some shallow metric. Heck, it is a great way for a pricipal and educators to preserve their jobs, and why not? The kids don't even have to pass the exam, they just have to take it....

I say, lets go back to letting the professionals ( the educators) decide what students ( as they have been teaching them for years) demonstrate the kinds of intellectual curiosity, depth of thought, and original thinking to contribute to a class discussion in a meaninful way in an AP class. After all, it is the course work, the reading and the discourse in class that follows the reading and studying that is the heart of learning that goes on in an AP class, not the test score at end of the year. In other words," the great leveller" in education lies in the end product of a developed , educate mind , Mr. Matthews, not a test score, especially if one got it by cramming.

The problem with many of the AP's is that there is very little time to have meaningful discussions in many AP classes. The pace that is necessary to cover the material leaves very little time to expand into any topic that the class finds interesting. My DD just took AP US History and the course consisted of a lot of reading, taking quizzes and learning how to write the essay. Covering the material from Colonial times to President Bush left very little time to talk about anything in depth. The AP exams take place in mid May so there is even less time to cover all the material.

[Anonymous]

Mathew's is a joke. Why does he consider himself an expert on education? His metric ( # of AP exams taken with no consideration of scores) is ridiculously simplistic and ultimately meaningless. Why does he have a weekly column in the Post? Does he own naked pictures of someone there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought only publics weighted the GPA for APs. I know my DC's private does not.

I have commented before on weighted GPAs. MCPS does weight for APs but they also provide the unweighted GPA. Selective colleges do their own GPA, usually unweighted and only core academic classes. So there is certainly motivation to do well in a class, AP or otherwise, for college admissions purposes but it is not about weighted grades. Most kids at our school don't pay any attention to the weighted GPA.

[Anonymous]

So if no one pays any attention to weighted GPAs, then why does the school create them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read Mr. Matthew's Blog, but just read the article linked here from the Post. I did not know that students no longer need a teacher rec to take an AP class. I disagree with Mr. Mattews assertion that ," leaving AP placement up to teachers denies the opportunity to students who want to challenge themselves" . I think his theory, though admirable, that "if given the opportunity more kids would work hard" is based on the premise that there is no other motivation to taking an AP class than the pursuit of knowledge. That may have been true when Mr Mattews and I were in HS, but unfortunately, that is no longer true.

Unfortunately, in the uber competitive college admissions process we live in, there is one other very powerful motivator for students to take and get a good grade in an AP class: weighted GPA on a college application. That folks, has nothing to do with allowing education to be a great leveller in lower income neighborhoods, as Mr Mattews hopes, and EVERYTHING to do with the epidemic of cheating , and cramming ( both forms of intellectual disshonesty) prevalent among AP enrollees in today's High Schools. Like with " no child left behind" , even "honors" courses have lost out to teach to the test. Sadly, in some cases even schools buy into it by allowing anyone to sign up for an " Honors" or AP class, just to inflate their school's ranking on some shallow metric. Heck, it is a great way for a pricipal and educators to preserve their jobs, and why not? The kids don't even have to pass the exam, they just have to take it....

I say, lets go back to letting the professionals ( the educators) decide what students ( as they have been teaching them for years) demonstrate the kinds of intellectual curiosity, depth of thought, and original thinking to contribute to a class discussion in a meaninful way in an AP class. After all, it is the course work, the reading and the discourse in class that follows the reading and studying that is the heart of learning that goes on in an AP class, not the test score at end of the year. In other words," the great leveller" in education lies in the end product of a developed , educate mind , Mr. Matthews, not a test score, especially if one got it by cramming.

The problem with many of the AP's is that there is very little time to have meaningful discussions in many AP classes. The pace that is necessary to cover the material leaves very little time to expand into any topic that the class finds interesting. My DD just took AP US History and the course consisted of a lot of reading, taking quizzes and learning how to write the essay. Covering the material from Colonial times to President Bush left very little time to talk about anything in depth. The AP exams take place in mid May so there is even less time to cover all the material.

This post above proves my point that AP classes should not be open to any student, but only those with a proven academic track record who are recommended by teachers. I took AP History 30 years ago. My teacher would have absolutely refused to teach anyone in my class how to write an essay, excuse me, "the essay" . I assume above poster means the essay that will be on the AP exam. This kind of "teaching to the test " is a corruption of education. The way I remember it, you were selected to be in the class for the critical thinking and writing skills you had already demonstrated. The purpose of AP/Honors was to provide kids who did not need to be spoon fed and opportunity for discourse at the college level. Strong writing, reading comprehension skills were a pre-rec. There were not any quizes, just reading, then an hour long debate in class next day about the 100 or so pages we all read the night before. There were papers ( 3 pages min due once a week) and one 20 page paper for the term. I remember my teacher saying the first day of class, " you are not a group that is going to get a lot of feed back in terms of grades... you must all do work capable of earning an A or a B or you will be asked to drop the class " " If your work is not up to that , or you do not participate meaningfully to class discussion, you will be asked to leave". " this is what is meant by an Honors class in this school"