Do large class sizes in FCPS make you consider paying $25K for private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is in the above average program (AAP) also. 30 in class. Still getting a good education, about same as I got in regular school 25 years ago. Alot depends on the teacher you get.

I did not have a similar curriculum in 5th and 6th grades when I was in "regular school" 33 years ago. But I am pleased with most of the curriculum in the GT center. Not science, though. The FCPS science curriculum is a joke. We teach science at home.

My dd's AAP center has a science resource teacher and the kids have science every day. My dd is in a class of 32 this year, and she has learned and retained more this year than she ever has before. It has nothing to do with the size of her class and everything to do with her amazing teacher.

What grade? We have found that the amount of time devoted to science classwork differs from year to year, depending on the SOLs that year. 3rd and 5th grade? Lots of science. 4th and 6th grade? not so much.

I think we are at the same school as this poster, and my son had Science often (several times a week) in 3rd grade, every day in 4th, and now in 5th it is back to often.

[Anonymous]

Buy a homeschooling curriculum and spend 30 minutes a day teaching them on your own. We've been doing this with our kids and they are both several grade levels above the norm in reading and math.

Can you recommend a particular curriculum you purchased?

Not the PP, but for math we use Miquon, Singapore Challenging Word Problems, and we're starting to use the new Beast Academy for the lower grades, then switch to Art of Problem Solving for the older grades. There are tons of reading programs. The Rainbow Resource Catalog on-line has good descriptions of the different choices. With all the homeschoolers around here, you really don't need to send them to public school for them to socialize. We finish up our work quickly and we have tons of free time to play and be outside, while still being well ahead of the kids in public school.

[Anonymous]

This is a little off topic, but since I'm the OP, I guess it's o.k.

For those of you who do "home school" enrichment or fulltime, how do you avoid complete rebellion with your child/ren? How do you get through the power struggles and get the learning done quickly so that you have free time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Class size has no correlation to student achievment, FYI.

This is dead wrong. Do a little bit of research before making such a claim.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/cheri/upload/cheri_wp136.pdf

I've done plenty of research. The empirical research shows time and time again teaching methods matter, not class size, and that teachers generally don't change their methods based on class size. So proud that you can Google, but you skipped the more relevant literature.

There are some exceptions when lower income populations are involved, but that's not relevant to FCPS.

You're the one who's dead wrong. Don't chime in when you're ignorant of the facts.

Here's one meta analysis: http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/115/4/1239.short. Right in the abstract (since I know you wouldn't understand the report itself): "The estimates indicate that class size does not have a statistically significant effect on student achievement."

Or maybe you prefer: http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ431933&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ431933 Abstract: "Reduced class size may improve school tone and morale, but it is not an adequate policy alone for significantly accelerating student achievement"

Dutch study points out research from educators is different from that of economists: http://www1.fee.uva.nl/scholar/wp/wp04-99.pdf

I agree.

A rather comprehensive synthesis of over 800 meta-analyses relating to student achievement was published in 2009 by John Hattie (search Visible Learning). It clearly shows that class size does not have a significant effect on student achievement whereas factors like prior achievement and feedback seem to be truly consequential in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Private not an option for us, but we did make a decision to start our middle and youngest (next Fall) at our neighborhood school, after opting out for our oldest. Our oldest has never been in a class of under 25, and the past few years he has been at 29-30. (AAP 4th this year). Ds2 is in K this year, in a class of 16, and yes, it is a Title 1 school. His sister will follow him next Fall. Having had direct experience at both schools with large class size and small, we have found a much higher degree of differentiation at the school with smaller class size.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I have " heard and read" both sides of this argument but I have to say as a long- time parent volunteer I do think class size matters. And, I tell you where I think it matters...the kids in the middle. Top kids get pull- out or at the centers. Even if the centers are crowded those kids want to learn and do the work. The bottom kids get pulled out for remedial services. I have been in the room for years. Now finally out of elementary this year for all of mine. I don't know what the answer is - well ,money I guess. The studies can say all they want but every teacher my three kids had told me that the classes were large and they wish they were smaller. one or two also said that each year the classes get bigger yet they have to do much more testing, pull- out, paperwork on the bottom half. I had kids in all three so no ax to grind at any level. However, it was my middle one who got the least attention. He was lucky because we provided things at home. Anyway, we are moving on but I am a practical person and to me it is just common sense that smaller class size has an impact on learning. Study or no study! Do the best you can with what your school offers but don't pay 25k for elementary. Save it for high school if you need to.

[Anonymous]

PP - I agree with you wholeheartedly with the exception of not paying for private elementary. I think for K-1, it doesn't matter. However, for 2-5, it does. If your child is average and apt to get lost in the shuffle (as your argument states), paying for the opportunity for that child to get the attention and individuation that s/he deserves is worth every penny. By the time they get to high school, kids already have a good idea of what kind of student they are and how they fit in amongst their peers. If I can keep my average kid from thinking he's just average and that nobody gives a damn about what he's doing (i.e. doing enough to pass is ok), then private school tuition is money well spent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$25K? No. But I am going to send my child to private K at his current preschool to the tune of $8k. He will then move on to our neighborhood elementary FCPS.

Our plan.

Can pps elaborate on why they feel the extra one year in private will make a difference before going to public school 1st grade? I'm also considering the same; however I can't exactly articulate why I feel it's so important to DH.

[Anonymous]

One year isn't going to change a whole lot if your eventual plan is to put your child in public school. Perhaps you need to think bigger than just this one year.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't want to discredit smaller class sizes just because perhaps a curriculum or a great teacher is equal or more important. Engaging students and keeping teachers and students motivated to learn from each other takes multiple efforts which may include reduced class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Is anyone else annoyed that FCPS had $55 million extra this past year but we still are seeing huge class sizes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else annoyed that FCPS had $55 million extra this past year but we still are seeing huge class sizes?

No, $50 million is only ~2% of the budget. They try to come in just under budget so there is some wiggle room if something unexpected happens. Prudent budgeting.

[Anonymous]

And yet, I've had to go and argue against $2 million and $5 million cuts. 2% is a pretty large chunk of change for them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fairfax-county-school-board-often-has-millions-in-extra-cash-to-spend/2013/08/23/9a6a1c5e-fa06-11e2-9bde-7ddaa186b751_story_1.html

[Anonymous]

We live in Loudoun Co. and are strongly considering private school. We might be able to do public elementary if we opt for our neighborhood school which has small class sizes. However, for middle and high we are definitely considering private. I just don't want to send our kids to a "mega-school" with thousands of other students. I would prefer they be at a much smaller school where they don't get lost in the crowds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet, I've had to go and argue against $2 million and $5 million cuts. 2% is a pretty large chunk of change for them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fairfax-county-school-board-often-has-millions-in-extra-cash-to-spend/2013/08/23/9a6a1c5e-fa06-11e2-9bde-7ddaa186b751_story_1.html

Yes, but think of the uproar if they came in over budget. They aim to come in under.

DH and I do the same thing with our budget.