The real "GT" issue in MCPS

[Anonymous]

In our home ES (western part of county but still very diverse population with a very large % of English language learners), the school administration does not "recommend" any student for HCG testing. I asked about this. Students are identified in 2nd grade as a part of Global Screening. All 3rd grade students, regardless of GT identification, are sent and application for the HGCs. The onus is on the parents to complete and submit an application. Any student for which an application is submitted will be tested for the HGC and a teacher recommendation will be submitted by the school to be evaluated as a part of their file. It sounds like this is yet another instance where not all elementary schools do things the same way. Based on previous comments, it sounds like some schools actually recommend students for testing - not the case at this school.

In any event, on the January testing date, students took the test for the HGC in our school library. The library was packed! There had to be at least 20 kids in there. To me, this speaks volumes. Everyone of these student's parents feel that they would be better served by attending a HGC. I believe this should send a STRONG message to the school principal in the MCPS administration that we aren't doing right by these kids. Based on the information meetings this past fall, we were told that we should only expect 1-3 kids per school to get into the HGC. Best case scenario three will get in and 17 will be left behind. Many of these 17 may also be highly qualified candidates but may not excepted due to lack of space or quota for our school, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question about the GT test. My DS tested in the 99 percentile of the 2nd grade global screening and was identified as "gifted and talented" according to that test. We chose not to have him take the January test b/c the GT center was inconvenient and we're happy with his home school. But this discussion makes me wonder: why didn't his home school recommend that we apply him to the GT center. I didn't know that schools actually recommended that some kids apply. (I'm happy with our decision, but I am curious now that I've read about recommendations on this thread).

They administered two tests. Do you know what they said about the other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I see the PP's point. You first try to argue about the definition of gifted then you turn around and want to talk about " differentiation for kids who need extra challenge in home schools." What PP is saying is that the forum is for GT. It might be good to keep on topic. My kids need challenge in the regular classroom--with the Ver. 2.0 (Is that what you call the student letter?) and I'd like to have a forum dedicated to that topic alone. There is a lot to discuss. And please don't bring your name calling and personal attacks here--it just makes you seem like you don't have anything useful left to say.

Why did you go around trying to argue GT defined kids who came prepared well if you just wanted to advocate for extra challenges for some of 'em?

I am not the PP who you are responding to. However, i see that people are thoroughly confused about this GT forum MCPS (Superintendent) is conducting. So, I called their office. They confirmed that this meeting is about all kids identified by MCPS at 2nd grade as "GT". They also categorically stated it is not about the magnet programs or HGCs. It is about the students that need additional challenge beyond the on-grade level curriculum. If you want to clarify please call 301-279-3145 and learn for yourself. So, acceleration in local schools, homogeneous and ability grouping, not enough magnet programs, differentiations and any topic related to high ability students is fair game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our home ES (western part of county but still very diverse population with a very large % of English language learners), the school administration does not "recommend" any student for HCG testing. I asked about this. Students are identified in 2nd grade as a part of Global Screening. All 3rd grade students, regardless of GT identification, are sent and application for the HGCs. The onus is on the parents to complete and submit an application. Any student for which an application is submitted will be tested for the HGC and a teacher recommendation will be submitted by the school to be evaluated as a part of their file. It sounds like this is yet another instance where not all elementary schools do things the same way. Based on previous comments, it sounds like some schools actually recommend students for testing - not the case at this school.

In any event, on the January testing date, students took the test for the HGC in our school library. The library was packed! There had to be at least 20 kids in there. To me, this speaks volumes. Everyone of these student's parents feel that they would be better served by attending a HGC. I believe this should send a STRONG message to the school principal in the MCPS administration that we aren't doing right by these kids. Based on the information meetings this past fall, we were told that we should only expect 1-3 kids per school to get into the HGC. Best case scenario three will get in and 17 will be left behind. Many of these 17 may also be highly qualified candidates but may not excepted due to lack of space or quota for our school, etc.

That is the point. The GT forum is the only chance to tell MCPS about the needs about these kids who need the HGC services. The problem is when other folks with their agenda try to take the forum hostage. It would be nice if the parents who took the test and qualified (even if they didn't get a sopt in the HGC) came to the forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our home ES (western part of county but still very diverse population with a very large % of English language learners), the school administration does not "recommend" any student for HCG testing. I asked about this. Students are identified in 2nd grade as a part of Global Screening. All 3rd grade students, regardless of GT identification, are sent and application for the HGCs. The onus is on the parents to complete and submit an application. Any student for which an application is submitted will be tested for the HGC and a teacher recommendation will be submitted by the school to be evaluated as a part of their file. It sounds like this is yet another instance where not all elementary schools do things the same way. Based on previous comments, it sounds like some schools actually recommend students for testing - not the case at this school.

In any event, on the January testing date, students took the test for the HGC in our school library. The library was packed! There had to be at least 20 kids in there. To me, this speaks volumes. Everyone of these student's parents feel that they would be better served by attending a HGC. I believe this should send a STRONG message to the school principal in the MCPS administration that we aren't doing right by these kids. Based on the information meetings this past fall, we were told that we should only expect 1-3 kids per school to get into the HGC. Best case scenario three will get in and 17 will be left behind. Many of these 17 may also be highly qualified candidates but may not excepted due to lack of space or quota for our school, etc.

Ugh ... my typos are horrible. Sorry!! Obviously I would not qualify for this forum - ha!

[Anonymous]

I'm a new PP but 13;18 is driving me nuts. MSPS certainly does decide who is GT since their definition seems to me to be MORE inclusive than the state's definition. (I will agree that the state's definition fits what I would normally think of as "gifted" kids but MCPS has a seperate definition spelled out and from what I have seen of their materials it seems to include BOTH truly top 1% gifted kids as well as many capable of working above grade level - hence why 40% of the county is judged to be "GT".)

I can certainly get that a parent of a truly tip-top "gifted" kid must be desperate about the fact that they are stuck in classes that simply cannot challenge them for most of ES. That must be very frustrating and should certainly be talked about at the forum.

But MCPS scheduled this forum and dedicated it to "GT". It makes 100% sense to use their definition of GT at THEIR OWN forum to address the also very serious problem of ability grouping which is almost as frustrating for parents on the eastern side. The PP who is battling this simply cannot live in east county or they would recognize that above grade level kids can similarly be very few and far between at many of the east county schools - making it VITAL that those kids get attention that helps them where they are at too - not simply where most of the class room is.

(yes, I have a caps problem. sorry!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question about the GT test. My DS tested in the 99 percentile of the 2nd grade global screening and was identified as "gifted and talented" according to that test. We chose not to have him take the January test b/c the GT center was inconvenient and we're happy with his home school. But this discussion makes me wonder: why didn't his home school recommend that we apply him to the GT center. I didn't know that schools actually recommended that some kids apply. (I'm happy with our decision, but I am curious now that I've read about recommendations on this thread).

Do you mean some school recommend that you apply????
How is this recommendation done anyway? Is it a written recommendation or a verbal, informal recommendation?
"Oh, by the way you should apply to HGC." type of thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I see the PP's point. You first try to argue about the definition of gifted then you turn around and want to talk about " differentiation for kids who need extra challenge in home schools." What PP is saying is that the forum is for GT. It might be good to keep on topic. My kids need challenge in the regular classroom--with the Ver. 2.0 (Is that what you call the student letter?) and I'd like to have a forum dedicated to that topic alone. There is a lot to discuss. And please don't bring your name calling and personal attacks here--it just makes you seem like you don't have anything useful left to say.

Why did you go around trying to argue GT defined kids who came prepared well if you just wanted to advocate for extra challenges for some of 'em?

I am not the PP who you are responding to. However, i see that people are thoroughly confused about this GT forum MCPS (Superintendent) is conducting. So, I called their office. They confirmed that this meeting is about all kids identified by MCPS at 2nd grade as "GT". They also categorically stated it is not about the magnet programs or HGCs. It is about the students that need additional challenge beyond the on-grade level curriculum. If you want to clarify please call 301-279-3145 and learn for yourself. So, acceleration in local schools, homogeneous and ability grouping, not enough magnet programs, differentiations and any topic related to high ability students is fair game.

Just email the Public Info Office [e-mail] and get something in writing. According to this poster, MCPS "confirmed that this meeting is about all kids identified by MCPS at 2nd grade as "GT"." That must mean those who go to HGCs too. How can they categorically say it is not about the magnet programs or HGCs??? Something doesn't smell right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question about the GT test. My DS tested in the 99 percentile of the 2nd grade global screening and was identified as "gifted and talented" according to that test. We chose not to have him take the January test b/c the GT center was inconvenient and we're happy with his home school. But this discussion makes me wonder: why didn't his home school recommend that we apply him to the GT center. I didn't know that schools actually recommended that some kids apply. (I'm happy with our decision, but I am curious now that I've read about recommendations on this thread).

I think that what the person who was referencing recommending kids for the HGC program meant was the process of teachers writing positive recommendations for students who apply. That recommendation is only part of the package that goes to those deciding who gets in.

Our home school did not suggest to us that DD apply. Her second grade teacher suggested it last year, but not in any official capacity. From what has been said by our principal about the 2nd grade gifted identification process and our own home school's "rigorous education", I suspect the administration really doesn't want to lose any of our high potential students to the HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a new PP but 13;18 is driving me nuts. MSPS certainly does decide who is GT since their definition seems to me to be MORE inclusive than the state's definition. (I will agree that the state's definition fits what I would normally think of as "gifted" kids but MCPS has a seperate definition spelled out and from what I have seen of their materials it seems to include BOTH truly top 1% gifted kids as well as many capable of working above grade level - hence why 40% of the county is judged to be "GT".)

I can certainly get that a parent of a truly tip-top "gifted" kid must be desperate about the fact that they are stuck in classes that simply cannot challenge them for most of ES. That must be very frustrating and should certainly be talked about at the forum.

But MCPS scheduled this forum and dedicated it to "GT". It makes 100% sense to use their definition of GT at THEIR OWN forum to address the also very serious problem of ability grouping which is almost as frustrating for parents on the eastern side. The PP who is battling this simply cannot live in east county or they would recognize that above grade level kids can similarly be very few and far between at many of the east county schools - making it VITAL that those kids get attention that helps them where they are at too - not simply where most of the class room is.

(yes, I have a caps problem. sorry!!)

Could you post the MCPS definition that seems to include BOTH truly top 1% gifted kids as well as many capable of working above grade level? It might be useful for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is the point. The GT forum is the only chance to tell MCPS about the needs about these kids who need the HGC services. The problem is when other folks with their agenda try to take the forum hostage. It would be nice if the parents who took the test and qualified (even if they didn't get a sopt in the HGC) came to the forum.

My DS in 4th grade, who is a highly gifted student (assesed by professionals) was not accepted into HGC. He is off the chart in reading and soaks any concept you teach him in 5 minutes. He irrirates the hell out of his 8th grade magnet school brother by discussing words and concepts at elder brother's level. He learns most things from internet, youtube, khanacademy, any other source he can lay his hands on. Very bored in class and disliked by teachers for blurting out answers. What good is it for me to advocate for more HGC, when he is not being challenged in his local school? How does it matter to my family even if the advocacy results in more magnet schools and no one gurantee that he will be accepted into it based on his capability? Would not he be better served if I advocate for appropriate acceleration in his local school, so that if it is implemented he would benifit whether he is in magnet school or local school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the point. The GT forum is the only chance to tell MCPS about the needs about these kids who need the HGC services. The problem is when other folks with their agenda try to take the forum hostage. It would be nice if the parents who took the test and qualified (even if they didn't get a sopt in the HGC) came to the forum.

My DS in 4th grade, who is a highly gifted student (assesed by professionals) was not accepted into HGC. He is off the chart in reading and soaks any concept you teach him in 5 minutes. He irrirates the hell out of his 8th grade magnet school brother by discussing words and concepts at elder brother's level. He learns most things from internet, youtube, khanacademy, any other source he can lay his hands on. Very bored in class and disliked by teachers for blurting out answers. What good is it for me to advocate for more HGC, when he is not being challenged in his local school? How does it matter to my family even if the advocacy results in more magnet schools and no one gurantee that he will be accepted into it based on his capability? Would not he be better served if I advocate for appropriate acceleration in his local school, so that if it is implemented he would benifit whether he is in magnet school or local school?

No one gives guarantees in public education. Sure people do advocate for acceleration in their local schools for the kids. No guarantee you will get that either. No harm done in advocating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just email the Public Info Office [e-mail] and get something in writing. According to this poster, MCPS "confirmed that this meeting is about all kids identified by MCPS at 2nd grade as "GT"." That must mean those who go to HGCs too. How can they categorically say it is not about the magnet programs or HGCs??? Something doesn't smell right.

That was my mistake in sentense formation. What I wanted say was "they categorically denied that the meeting is only about HGC or magnet programs". I do not have any personal agenda. You can call the number, that is number for chief of staff to Dr. Starr. You can always email and ask too, if you want something written.

[Anonymous]

To the PP incapable of following the earlier posted links to view for herself how MCPS describes GT...The link does not have a specific cut off percentage. My understanding is that MCPS keeps that secret. But it does describe the GT goals. Note that #3 is not the only point on this list and that it is broken out seperately from the first 2 points, meaning that those that are at the very top and qualify for magnets/HGC are part of the overall GT group but they are not the only kids in that grouping.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/policy/pdf/ioa.pdf

p. 4

"3. Program
To respond to the range of needs and abilities among gifted and talented students, every
school will have an appropriate, clearly defined and articulated program for gifted and
talented students.

a) Programming will be developed as needed in each K-8 school and in other settings.
Planning for gifted and talented will include special provisions for:

(1) Challenging instruction, flexible grouping, and scheduling arrangements that
allow time with intellectual peers for in-depth study in mathematics,
reading/language arts, science, social studies, and foreign language
(2) Communication of the program to parents

b) The Honors Program will be the vehicle for serving gifted and talented students in
all Grade 9-12 schools.

c) For students who require a markedly different programming, centers for highly
gifted and other special programs including magnet programs will continue to be
provided, and new programs will be developed as needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

a) Programming will be developed as needed in each K-8 school and in other settings.
Planning for gifted and talented will include special provisions for:

(1) Challenging instruction, flexible grouping, and scheduling arrangements that
allow time with intellectual peers for in-depth study in mathematics,
reading/language arts, science, social studies, and foreign language
(2) Communication of the program to parents

Sure would be nice if I saw any of that at our local ES.