Brent or EL Haynes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP at Brent with a 1st & 4th grader. We, too, got into a Deal feeder for 3rd grader and I don't regret not taking it at all (I understand why someone else might, but I don't). Deal is great, sure, but we are just really pleased with Brent and I figure I'll worry about this year right now and the future later. It does help that we are OOB at Brent and are IB for Stuart Hobson which I certainly do see as a better option than either Jefferson or EH. I am mildly nervous, but everything else has worked out ok so far, so I will make sure I do everything we can do and not panic.

Brent 4th grade parent here. Yes, we are opposite of you. We are OOB for SH and IB for Brent. I think I would feel more comfortable if we were like you and had SH at least as a fallback but without that I think we have to bail. Brent has been great and why we decided to keep our child there but the future is looming!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP at Brent with a 1st & 4th grader. We, too, got into a Deal feeder for 3rd grader and I don't regret not taking it at all (I understand why someone else might, but I don't). Deal is great, sure, but we are just really pleased with Brent and I figure I'll worry about this year right now and the future later. It does help that we are OOB at Brent and are IB for Stuart Hobson which I certainly do see as a better option than either Jefferson or EH. I am mildly nervous, but everything else has worked out ok so far, so I will make sure I do everything we can do and not panic.

Brent 4th grade parent here. Yes, we are opposite of you. We are OOB for SH and IB for Brent. I think I would feel more comfortable if we were like you and had SH at least as a fallback but without that I think we have to bail. Brent has been great and why we decided to keep our child there but the future is looming!

Could you bail to Watkins and then your still in the neighborhood, and also in a SH feeder pattern? Closer than driving across town to Hyde/Stoddert/Key/Mann (note that this the order in my mind of ease of entry).

[Anonymous]

I agree.

[Anonymous]

4th grade parent here again -- I can't imagine sending him to Watkins. I know people on the Hill love it but I don't find it acceptable. Plus my goal is to not have him in Stuart Hobson but I guess we will see. We will do the lottery and you guys are making me think I should at least put Watkins down so we do have a fallback. I am not that worried about the drive across town. Lots of our neighbors are doing it already so there are carpool options though I know it won't be easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with the 4th grader again. Now we are really feeling the pressure. We got a spot in 3rd grade at a Deal feeding school and regret not taking it. This year we didn't get anything except Hardy feeders so we didn't take them. We will do lottery again next year and we may take a Hardy feeder just to get out. In the end, those years pass quickly and frankly I can't imagine Jefferson or EH being viable options for most of the Brent children within the next 5 years.

Moving kids around like chess pieces in those formative elementary school years, whatever the MS prospects, does them a disservice, academically and socially. Had you moved your child, you could now easily be on this thread telling us how that was a mistake. You did the right thing; and the truth is that you just don't know what's right until you actually get there. Children are different. I have one who I suspect would not do well at a massive and bustling environment like Deal, as magnificent an image as is painted, and another one I can easily see fit right in. Picking the right elementary school is not about middle schools. It's about where your child can develop a lasting academic foundation and meaningful connections for a lifetime to come.

Also, having been at the "frontier" of some school transformation movements, let me add that any school can become viable options in no time. (And they can go down the tube in no time, too, for that matter.) Their success hinges on you working with them.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanking you for good information. We have decided to go to Brent. We are not worried about middle schools because we will be leaving country again in 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanking you for good information. We have decided to go to Brent. We are not worried about middle schools because we will be leaving country again in 5 years.

I enjoyed this thread, especially the sense of closure in hearing the OP's decision. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with the 4th grader again. Now we are really feeling the pressure. We got a spot in 3rd grade at a Deal feeding school and regret not taking it. This year we didn't get anything except Hardy feeders so we didn't take them. We will do lottery again next year and we may take a Hardy feeder just to get out. In the end, those years pass quickly and frankly I can't imagine Jefferson or EH being viable options for most of the Brent children within the next 5 years.

Moving kids around like chess pieces in those formative elementary school years, whatever the MS prospects, does them a disservice, academically and socially. Had you moved your child, you could now easily be on this thread telling us how that was a mistake. You did the right thing; and the truth is that you just don't know what's right until you actually get there. Children are different. I have one who I suspect would not do well at a massive and bustling environment like Deal, as magnificent an image as is painted, and another one I can easily see fit right in. Picking the right elementary school is not about middle schools. It's about where your child can develop a lasting academic foundation and meaningful connections for a lifetime to come.

Also, having been at the "frontier" of some school transformation movements, let me add that any school can become viable options in no time. (And they can go down the tube in no time, too, for that matter.) Their success hinges on you working with them.

Yes, that is why we stuck with Brent for all these years. But I don't know if that was a good pick because of the middle school options. I think my child would have been just fine at another elementary school over the years with better middle school options. I was one of those folks who thought middle school was far off but not here we are a few months away from a lottery where I would like to figure out what we are doing. I don't want to toss him into 6th grade at a new school across town. I think having some friends go in from 5th grade will help.

Who the hell knows. I am sure I will do a huge disservice to my child regardless of school picks anyways.

But it was a very nice thread and thank you all for your insights!

[Anonymous]

In our family’s experience we have found it absolutely crucial to focus on and find a good MS. Even if it means uprooting from ES early. Our oldest daughter went to an ES school on the Hill. We didn’t think much about where she should go to MS and we just sent her to the feeder MS. She was a shy, yet decent student in ES. In MS she floundered and lost herself. Kids at the school were not as focused on academics as in her ES and the culture of the MS sort of led her astray. We kept trying to make things work, but in the end there’s only so much meeting with teachers, administrators, tutors and the like can do when the primary issue is the school itself (most importantly her classmates). It’s tough to build the ship once you’ve set sail. It’s not that there weren’t any good kids in the school; it’s just that there were too many kids who didn’t care about academics, and too many who were antagonistic to academic achievement. For what it is worth, she’s 20 now and she got herself back on track after enrolling in a different school for 8th grade. But we lost a valuable year in the process.

If kids come from good families they can weather a mid-level ES. But as they transition to MS it becomes very difficult to weather a sub-standard MS. From our family’s perspective there’s much more on the line in selecting a MS than there is with an ES.

We’ve been loosely following developments with Capitol Hill schools and I wish all of you the best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our family’s experience we have found it absolutely crucial to focus on and find a good MS. Even if it means uprooting from ES early. Our oldest daughter went to an ES school on the Hill. We didn’t think much about where she should go to MS and we just sent her to the feeder MS. She was a shy, yet decent student in ES. In MS she floundered and lost herself. Kids at the school were not as focused on academics as in her ES and the culture of the MS sort of led her astray. We kept trying to make things work, but in the end there’s only so much meeting with teachers, administrators, tutors and the like can do when the primary issue is the school itself (most importantly her classmates). It’s tough to build the ship once you’ve set sail. It’s not that there weren’t any good kids in the school; it’s just that there were too many kids who didn’t care about academics, and too many who were antagonistic to academic achievement. For what it is worth, she’s 20 now and she got herself back on track after enrolling in a different school for 8th grade. But we lost a valuable year in the process.

If kids come from good families they can weather a mid-level ES. But as they transition to MS it becomes very difficult to weather a sub-standard MS. From our family’s perspective there’s much more on the line in selecting a MS than there is with an ES.

We’ve been loosely following developments with Capitol Hill schools and I wish all of you the best of luck.

Very interesting points, and one of my fears as well (as the parent of an PKer who is in a great elementary charter with an untested middle school).

[Anonymous]

From the Post today:

But other numbers place the math results in a more sobering context. D.C. also has, by a wide margin, the nation’s highest proportion of 4th and 8th graders in the “below basic” category--and the lowest in proficient/advanced. Even allowing for the apples-to-oranges issue (comparing D.C., a city-state, to other states) the numbers are disturbing.

Forty percent of fourth graders are below basic, far behind Mississippi (28 percent) Louisiana (27 percent) California (26 percent) and Alabama (25 percent). Just 21 percent are proficient/advanced, again trailing Mississippi (25), Louisiana (26) and Alabama (28)

The numbers are worse in 8th grade with 52 percent below basic, again trailing Mississippi (42) Alabama (40) and Louisiana (37). The District is dead last in proficient/advanced (17 percent).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/closer-look-puts-dc-naep-math-scores-in-context/2011/11/02/gIQAH8uxfM_blog.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the Post today:

But other numbers place the math results in a more sobering context. D.C. also has, by a wide margin, the nation’s highest proportion of 4th and 8th graders in the “below basic” category--and the lowest in proficient/advanced. Even allowing for the apples-to-oranges issue (comparing D.C., a city-state, to other states) the numbers are disturbing.

Forty percent of fourth graders are below basic, far behind Mississippi (28 percent) Louisiana (27 percent) California (26 percent) and Alabama (25 percent). Just 21 percent are proficient/advanced, again trailing Mississippi (25), Louisiana (26) and Alabama (28)

The numbers are worse in 8th grade with 52 percent below basic, again trailing Mississippi (42) Alabama (40) and Louisiana (37). The District is dead last in proficient/advanced (17 percent).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/closer-look-puts-dc-naep-math-scores-in-context/2011/11/02/gIQAH8uxfM_blog.html

chilling stuff- but how does this relate to deciding between Brent and E.L. Haynes?

[Anonymous]

Here's what gets me about the piece in the Post. DCPS seems to be absolutely against any new selective admission schools beyond the few that we have (Banneker, SWW, etc). They argue that doing so well skim the best students and further weaken other schools. But as Turque points out in his Post blog, DC has, by far, the highest proportion of below basic students and the fewest proportion of students in the proficient category.

Thus, it would seem prudent to do SOMETHING to attract more able students, and a selective admission program would do that by stopping the hemorrhaging to charters, the suburbs, privates, and it would attract students from elsewhere. Right now almost all of the arrows point out - students leave DCPS as they get older but few enter DCPS as they get older.

But I guess it goes back to what someone else posted on one of the many Yu Yang threads: "Seems the fatal flaw of our city will always be its inability to let successful ventures flourish. It seems there is no way to grow success when the first hint of quality gets torn down no matter who is benefiting. It's ugly, immature and destructive. How does one repair a fatal flaw like this? "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Post today:

But other numbers place the math results in a more sobering context. D.C. also has, by a wide margin, the nation’s highest proportion of 4th and 8th graders in the “below basic” category--and the lowest in proficient/advanced. Even allowing for the apples-to-oranges issue (comparing D.C., a city-state, to other states) the numbers are disturbing.

Forty percent of fourth graders are below basic, far behind Mississippi (28 percent) Louisiana (27 percent) California (26 percent) and Alabama (25 percent). Just 21 percent are proficient/advanced, again trailing Mississippi (25), Louisiana (26) and Alabama (28)

The numbers are worse in 8th grade with 52 percent below basic, again trailing Mississippi (42) Alabama (40) and Louisiana (37). The District is dead last in proficient/advanced (17 percent).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/closer-look-puts-dc-naep-math-scores-in-context/2011/11/02/gIQAH8uxfM_blog.html

chilling stuff- but how does this relate to deciding between Brent and E.L. Haynes?

See 17:25 and 17:29.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what gets me about the piece in the Post. DCPS seems to be absolutely against any new selective admission schools beyond the few that we have (Banneker, SWW, etc). They argue that doing so well skim the best students and further weaken other schools. But as Turque points out in his Post blog, DC has, by far, the highest proportion of below basic students and the fewest proportion of students in the proficient category.

Thus, it would seem prudent to do SOMETHING to attract more able students, and a selective admission program would do that by stopping the hemorrhaging to charters, the suburbs, privates, and it would attract students from elsewhere. Right now almost all of the arrows point out - students leave DCPS as they get older but few enter DCPS as they get older.

But I guess it goes back to what someone else posted on one of the many Yu Yang threads: "Seems the fatal flaw of our city will always be its inability to let successful ventures flourish. It seems there is no way to grow success when the first hint of quality gets torn down no matter who is benefiting. It's ugly, immature and destructive. How does one repair a fatal flaw like this? "

Wow, this is completely misguided. Your proposed solution does nothing to address the real problem – that there is a significant number of DC students in middle school that are below basic. All you want to do is increase the denominator – add high-performing students to the mix to make the ratios look better. And to do this, you want to create schools that cater to high-performing students, without an ounce of concern for those who really need the help – the 40% that are below basic.

(Important note – I’m not opposed to magnet schools in theory – but to create them simply to make the numbers appear better? No.)

I take back my first statement – it’s not misguided, it’s abhorrent.