Dems not supporting Obama?

[Anonymous]

if not Israel then who is our ally in the middle east? Who else will back the US up, provide intelligence and fight terrorism in that part of the world? The Saudis? No maybe Lebannon, or no, wait, Iran? Egypt? Who? It is a little more complicated than just being a jewish issue.

Yes, I think most people get that it is a little more complicated than just being a Jewish issue. And I think most people get that Israel is our most reliable ally in a tense region.

My beef is that I don't think that Israeli interests and US interests are always one and the same. I think there are many examples of when US interests have been placed second to Israel's through the US's own policies. I also happen to be against - on a moral level - the treatment meted out to the Palestinians, and I think that the US is one of the few players who could actually force change on that level.

To boot, I think it is very difficult to have any real, honest discussion in this country that involves Israel.

Call me a fan of Mearsheimer and Walt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if not Israel then who is our ally in the middle east? Who else will back the US up, provide intelligence and fight terrorism in that part of the world? The Saudis? No maybe Lebannon, or no, wait, Iran? Egypt? Who? It is a little more complicated than just being a jewish issue.

We wouldn't have the cataclysmic hostility of the Middle Eastern Arabs and Muslims if the US didn't disproportionately support Israel at all cost! In the 1950s, prior to the US' unquestioning support of Israel, the Middle East was very pro-American.

Well, how about Egypt? Why not Saudi Arabia? They also receive significant US aid and is a relatively stable country. I hope the current administration doesn't start another war in the Middle East by stirring up the hornet's nest with Iran. The other countries (Columbia, Egypt) who receive significant US aid are required to spend a portion of the money on products (military equipment) from American companies and they receive the funds in tranches. Israel has received $140 Billion since 2002, have no requirements to spend their money with American companies for their military gear, and get it all up front, and not in installments like other countries. So they even earn interest on the aid they receive. With any other entity, politicians big and small would question why. Why not? There's really no substantial discussion among the US civilians or the politicians on the point of supporting Israel because everyone is afraid to be called anti-semitic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

if not Israel then who is our ally in the middle east? Who else will back the US up, provide intelligence and fight terrorism in that part of the world? The Saudis? No maybe Lebannon, or no, wait, Iran? Egypt? Who? It is a little more complicated than just being a jewish issue.

My beef is that I don't think that Israeli interests and US interests are always one and the same. I think there are many examples of when US interests have been placed second to Israel's through the US's own policies. I also happen to be against - on a moral level - the treatment meted out to the Palestinians, and I think that the US is one of the few players who could actually force change on that level.

To boot, I think it is very difficult to have any real, honest discussion in this country that involves Israel.

Call me a fan of Mearsheimer and Walt.

Yes, thank you for your point. I also believe that Israeli interests are placed ahead of the US interest. Thank you Mearsheimer & Walt for educating the public because there would be very little chance that the average non-PhD candidate or professor would have learned any of this information.

[Anonymous]

I COMPLETELY agree with the last few posts. I also think it's very difficult to have a discussion about support for Israel without being called an anti-Semite. I suppose it's similar to feelings people have about discussing racism. No-one wants to be called a bigot for expressing feelings which do not arise out of bigotry but out of reasonable questioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Over the weekend I was with my husband's Ohio relatives. All lifelong Dems. All voted for Hillary in the primary. Although they did not come out and say it, it was pretty clear that they are queasy about Obama because he's African-American. Not thrilled that I am related to these people by marriage, but there it is. They are not idealogues so it would not shock me if they voted for McCain.

The same is true of my DH's midwestern family...their words are, "there's just something about Obama" that is holding them back from throwing their full support behind him. Makes me sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the weekend I was with my husband's Ohio relatives. All lifelong Dems. All voted for Hillary in the primary. Although they did not come out and say it, it was pretty clear that they are queasy about Obama because he's African-American. Not thrilled that I am related to these people by marriage, but there it is. They are not idealogues so it would not shock me if they voted for McCain.

The same is true of my DH's midwestern family...their words are, "there's just something about Obama" that is holding them back from throwing their full support behind him. Makes me sad.

What makes you think that "something" is racism? Couldn't it be something else? Are they de facto racists because they're from the midwest? I don't really follow your logic here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the weekend I was with my husband's Ohio relatives. All lifelong Dems. All voted for Hillary in the primary. Although they did not come out and say it, it was pretty clear that they are queasy about Obama because he's African-American. Not thrilled that I am related to these people by marriage, but there it is. They are not idealogues so it would not shock me if they voted for McCain.

The same is true of my DH's midwestern family...their words are, "there's just something about Obama" that is holding them back from throwing their full support behind him. Makes me sad.

What makes you think that "something" is racism? Couldn't it be something else? Are they de facto racists because they're from the midwest? I don't really follow your logic here.

Because I know my ILs and I know what they mean by "something." Sorry I was unclear about that. And no, they are not de facto racists because they are from the midwest. I didn't mean to imply that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the weekend I was with my husband's Ohio relatives. All lifelong Dems. All voted for Hillary in the primary. Although they did not come out and say it, it was pretty clear that they are queasy about Obama because he's African-American. Not thrilled that I am related to these people by marriage, but there it is. They are not idealogues so it would not shock me if they voted for McCain.

The same is true of my DH's midwestern family...their words are, "there's just something about Obama" that is holding them back from throwing their full support behind him. Makes me sad.

What makes you think that "something" is racism? Couldn't it be something else? Are they de facto racists because they're from the midwest? I don't really follow your logic here.

Because I know my ILs and I know what they mean by "something." Sorry I was unclear about that. And no, they are not de facto racists because they are from the midwest. I didn't mean to imply that.

15:18 here. Thanks for the clarifications.