Abortion and Gay Marriage

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think I already know the answer to this- but is there a single republican candidate who I can live with on these issues? I can't find the abortion policies of Romney or Hunstman on their sites...

To get back to the original question, I think Obama is the closest pro-choice, pro-gay rights republican we have today.

Well, as long as Reps don't make to big a fuss, and he doesn't have to promote legislation in those directions.

[Anonymous]

Funny how nobody calls their wanted baby a fetus when they gush over sonogram pictures. "Wow, look how cute my fetus is." Nobody shops on the "fetus registry" at Babies R Us. It's only the children we don't want that we try to dehumanize.

[takoma]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how nobody calls their wanted baby a fetus when they gush over sonogram pictures. "Wow, look how cute my fetus is." Nobody shops on the "fetus registry" at Babies R Us. It's only the children we don't want that we try to dehumanize.

My wife and I talk to our cats and call them our babies.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how nobody calls their wanted baby a fetus when they gush over sonogram pictures. "Wow, look how cute my fetus is." Nobody shops on the "fetus registry" at Babies R Us. It's only the children we don't want that we try to dehumanize.

The stuff on a registry is not for the fetus, but for the baby. You don't see the mother jamming the gifts up her uterus do you?

[Anonymous]

only the abolitionists called slaves "people". only the anti-abortionists call fetus' "babies"

[takoma]

Anonymous wrote:only the abolitionists called slaves "people". only the anti-abortionists call fetus' "babies"

Remember the Constitution? It was slave-holding southerners who added that "three fifths of all other Persons" should be counted in determining representation. "Persons" is not exactly "people", but close enough.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how nobody calls their wanted baby a fetus when they gush over sonogram pictures. "Wow, look how cute my fetus is." Nobody shops on the "fetus registry" at Babies R Us. It's only the children we don't want that we try to dehumanize.

The stuff on a registry is not for the fetus, but for the baby. You don't see the mother jamming the gifts up her uterus do you?

Ewww, Jeff. You're really missing the point and frankly resorting to being quite tacky in your response to an important point I'm making about the language people use. We often use words that are intended to make ourselves feel better about our actions. When we want the baby, we talk about visiting the OB and using the doppler to hear the baby's heartbeat. We don't talk about the fetus's heartbeat, unless the baby is unwanted. Oops, we don't even mention -- in fact we go out of our way not to think about it -- that the fetus has a heartbeat when the child is unwanted.

I think you were the one who brought up miscarriage. I did miscarry rather far into a pregnancy (not seeking your sympathy here). When that happened I wasn't sad about losing my fetus, I was sad about the death of my baby.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Ewww, Jeff. You're really missing the point and frankly resorting to being quite tacky in your response to an important point I'm making about the language people use.

You talk about a fetus registry and Jeff is being tacky.

He addressed your point perfectly. You suggest that a fetus must be a baby because we buy gifts through a baby registry before birth. The alternative view is that a baby registry (or whatever they call it) is for gifts for a future baby, not for a fetus, or pre-baby, or unborn child, or whatever you want to call it. As Jeff points out, you don't give the gifts to the baby before it's born. You might buy your "baby" gift and then have no baby to give it to b/c of miscarriage or death a birth.

You go to the department store to shop from a wedding registry. So an engagement is a marriage?

Anonymous wrote:We often use words that are intended to make ourselves feel better about our actions. When we want the baby, we talk about visiting the OB and using the doppler to hear the baby's heartbeat. We don't talk about the fetus's heartbeat, unless the baby is unwanted. Oops, we don't even mention -- in fact we go out of our way not to think about it -- that the fetus has a heartbeat when the child is unwanted.

Who's this "we?" You weren't there at my sonograms. My best recollection is that the doc said, "Do you want to hear the heartbeat?" I'm guessing you haven't had an abortion, so you have no idea what women who do avoid thinking about.

Anonymous wrote:I think you were the one who brought up miscarriage. I did miscarry rather far into a pregnancy (not seeking your sympathy here). When that happened I wasn't sad about losing my fetus, I was sad about the death of my baby.

OK - so you thought of it as a baby. I think we could have guessed that. Opinions and perspectives differ on that issue, so your individual attitude says nothing about human nature in this area.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Ewww, Jeff. You're really missing the point and frankly resorting to being quite tacky in your response to an important point I'm making about the language people use. We often use words that are intended to make ourselves feel better about our actions. When we want the baby, we talk about visiting the OB and using the doppler to hear the baby's heartbeat. We don't talk about the fetus's heartbeat, unless the baby is unwanted. Oops, we don't even mention -- in fact we go out of our way not to think about it -- that the fetus has a heartbeat when the child is unwanted.

I think you were the one who brought up miscarriage. I did miscarry rather far into a pregnancy (not seeking your sympathy here). When that happened I wasn't sad about losing my fetus, I was sad about the death of my baby.

What you describe is certainly a common phenomenon. However, language is used inaccurately in many different circumstances. As a previous poster mentioned, he refers to his cats as his babies. Some people actually refer to material objects -- a car for example -- as their baby. A lay person probably doesn't refer to a fetus's heartbeat, but a medical doctor likely does. The Republican Party devotes a tremendous amount of energy thinking of how to use language to their benefit. Hence, the "death tax", "death panels", the "fair tax", etc. When I hear abortion opponents refer to abortion as "killing babies", I am inclined to believe they are choosing that phrase due to its emotional impact. Your explanation may be that they simply feel more positively about fetuses. Regardless, of which of us is correct, technically, the fetus is still a fetus.