Disadvantages of a bilingual school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i just don't get it. if you aren't chinese, and don't speak chinese in the home, what's the point of sending your kid to YY? how will you help them with their homework? and do kids REALLY learn in another language when that language isn't spoken in the home? plus, chinese is a really tough language to learn. i'll be happy if my kid just takes up a foreign language by middle school, then studies abroad or something.

I'm not Chinese but speak another non-European language. I am bilingual and my parents don't speak much English. I learned it when we immigrated to the U.S. when I was 6. Took about 2 yrs to become fully bilingual and my parents did not help with English at all. While I don't expect my DC to become bilingual in Chinese in 2 yrs, I do expect it by 3rd grade after 5 yrs immersion. I learned English mostly by watching TV in English and school so that's what I'm planning to do for my child, Chinese tv and school. I don't plan to supporting Chinese at home but will certainly do so with English and Math. We are planning on taking DC to China over summers. My parents live in Asia now and go to China often. Funny enough, my parents would rather DC learn Chinese over our native language since Chinese is considered essential after English in Asia.

I think it is important to acquire a language early. One of my brothers is very gifted in languages and speaks/writes 8 including Greek and Latin but his accent in our native language is "off" since he came to the U.S. at 2 and had to relearn it as a teen. He lived and worked in our country as an adult and married a native speaker but that did not remedy his accent: His wife and friends sometimes tease him that he sounds like a "***** foreigner" although if a non-native speaker spoke like him they would be congratulated for speaking so well. Also, I remember learning English at 6 to be effortless as compared to my learning other languages in jr. high and in college.

[Anonymous]

The lower vocabulary is interesting. I see the real problem with some of the DC public immersion programs is that the quality of teachers is low and the peer group isn't high either. It would be better to supplement language with first rate tutors and intensive summer language programs than spending all day in that type of environment.

[Anonymous]

15:14 here. I disagree. I don't think the peer group or teachers matter much at 4, 5, 6 yrs old. For this age group, the thing that matters most is how many hours in a day and how regularly they are exposed to the target language. As long as the environment is enriched with the target language, the kids absorb it. Not at all like learning another language as an adult and no tutors necessary.

FWIW, at my Ivy uni, I and many other bilingual, trilingual, etc. kids tested out of the freshman English requirement.

[Anonymous]

But you probably didn't graduate from a DC public school. Well, if all you care about language is then you're right. Most of us want math, science, social studies, and English competence. The English teachers at "some" of these schools aren't good from what I hear. The quality of the overall program makes a huge difference IMHO.

Anonymous wrote:15:14 here. I disagree. I don't think the peer group or teachers matter much at 4, 5, 6 yrs old. For this age group, the thing that matters most is how many hours in a day and how regularly they are exposed to the target language. As long as the environment is enriched with the target language, the kids absorb it. Not at all like learning another language as an adult and no tutors necessary.

FWIW, at my Ivy uni, I and many other bilingual, trilingual, etc. kids tested out of the freshman English requirement.

[Anonymous]

At 4, 5, 6 yrs old, I don't care about math, science, social studies, etc. but primarily language. In our case, learning Chinese. DC can read in English and do simple math, addition, subtraction, so I don't care about English or Math instruction either. From prek to third grade, I primarily care about acquiring and being exposed to another language, playing/making friends and enjoying school so our bilingual charter will be more than adequate.

[Anonymous]

My concern is that after 3rd grade many families will leave the Chinese immersion if they are still not happy with the English piece. Plus the Chinese will get REALLY hard as other content areas are taught in the Chinese language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My concern is that after 3rd grade many families will leave the Chinese immersion if they are still not happy with the English piece. Plus the Chinese will get REALLY hard as other content areas are taught in the Chinese language.

I'm already hearing that some parents are upset at YY testing results as well as the decision to remove underperforming students from the immersion program.

[Anonymous]

I agree. We plan on leaving after 2/3rd. Simply don't know how the education will be in the later grades and not willing to risk it.

[Anonymous]

Ditto - we will definitely leave after 3rd grade unless they can really convince that the English instruction will be competitive with other schools.

[Anonymous]

Once of my concerns is that the school creates a bubble environment. We are willing to take the chance, but I worry that there will not be regular occasions to practice/use Chinese outside of the school.

[Anonymous]

Why would you put your child through 3 or 4 years of Chinese immersion if you "know" you will leave? It isn't some type of party trick or feather in your cap. Those children work really hard to learn Chinese. I'm flummoxed and saddened that you've already decided that you are okay with discarding that effort.

[Anonymous]

I believe that one disadvantage of immersion schools is that they give a false sense that your child will become bilingual just by going to the school. They will not- kids need to be immersed more fully than that.

[Anonymous]

You shouldn't have false expectations, but you should think of it as a trajectory. Your child probably has a better chance of gaining fluency in an L2 with more years of practice than fewer, no? If your child continues in some way through Middle School, HS, and College --c'mon. They'll get to a decent level if they put in the effort. Also, exposure to an L2 has a great effect on metacognition in children. Bilingual ed. has lots of issues, including the silly idea that in a few short years your child will emerge as a 'a balanced bilingual' (this concept is pretty much a fallacy; most of us will always have a dominant language, or a language preference/comfort depending on what we are trying to do in the moment).... but I would not worry about my child not getting somewhere with the language in programs like this.

[Anonymous]

My child was in a bilingual immersion program for 8 years. At the end of those 8 years he can read and comprehend at grade level in the other language. He can hear an essay read by an author in the other language and laugh appreciately at the jokes that pass completely over my head. He can learn math, social studies, geography, history, whatever, in the other language and get the concepts completely.

Is he fully biliterate and bilingual, as if he was born and raised outside the U.S.? No, the vocabulary for every day objects is not there, and no one in our family speaks the other language at home. So, no, after even 8 years, it wasn't enough for that level of fluency. However, his language skills are so much better than mine (I took the same language for 8 years, only I started at age 14) and his accent is almost native.

I think the best part is that his English skills are excellent, much better than the grade-level 2nd language skills. All other subjects, math and science, etc., are also fine. Social studies and geography are so much more enhanced by the presence of two cultures presented at the same time.

So I feel we got a great boost with no downsides, really. But if we had left after even 5 years, I don't think there would have been much benefit. You really have to sow the seeds and then wait for years for the harvest. You cannot rush the process. Parents who are upset that their kids haven't "flowered" after a couple of years of instruction in the 2nd language are expecting too much too early.

[Anonymous]

This resonates with me. We plan to stay at YY through at least 5th or 6th grade (i.e., 7 or 8 years; maybe 9 for DC2 if PS-3 really happens next year) unless the school turns into a freaking disaster or a very poor fit at the upper elementary level (neither of which seems likely at this point).

Anonymous wrote:My child was in a bilingual immersion program for 8 years. At the end of those 8 years he can read and comprehend at grade level in the other language. He can hear an essay read by an author in the other language and laugh appreciately at the jokes that pass completely over my head. He can learn math, social studies, geography, history, whatever, in the other language and get the concepts completely.

Is he fully biliterate and bilingual, as if he was born and raised outside the U.S.? No, the vocabulary for every day objects is not there, and no one in our family speaks the other language at home. So, no, after even 8 years, it wasn't enough for that level of fluency. However, his language skills are so much better than mine (I took the same language for 8 years, only I started at age 14) and his accent is almost native.

I think the best part is that his English skills are excellent, much better than the grade-level 2nd language skills. All other subjects, math and science, etc., are also fine. Social studies and geography are so much more enhanced by the presence of two cultures presented at the same time.

So I feel we got a great boost with no downsides, really. But if we had left after even 5 years, I don't think there would have been much benefit. You really have to sow the seeds and then wait for years for the harvest. You cannot rush the process. Parents who are upset that their kids haven't "flowered" after a couple of years of instruction in the 2nd language are expecting too much too early.