Montgomery County board of education fraud on students and parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would like to know whether this "found money" is going to go towards education or to make up for cuts to health benefits that were cut by the City Council has an effort in cost-savings so that the $$ could go to education.

You have to ask? MCPS has already said it's NOT going to go to saving some of the aides or other classroom-impacting cuts they were planning to make. It's of course going to make sure that the relatively minor increase in health benefit costs to teachers won't go through. MCPS has acted in horrendously bad faith here.

Completely Agree. BOE is acting in bad faith.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I agree with everything you said about the benefits of transparency. Why don't you also start by signing on with your real name / id? Everyone on this board (myself included) is talking from behind anonymous ids which is a mask in itself? I think the opinions on this forum could have more impact if the people stating them are seen as well as heard.

Anonymous wrote:Again, PP here. You should be proud for being in the Union. I have no problem with Unions. The operative word is mouthpiece. Being a mouthpiece is fine too, but to me it implies that you not responding to or considering alternative view points that advance the debate. You are just taking an advocacy position that I don't think considers all sides.

Meanwhile, why is my take on transparency interesting? Are you against transparency? I personally am fed up with the lack of transparency, not just in MCPS, but in the country. This is about more than Parents Coalition. This is about democracy. It may not be efficient, but it is how we should operate as a society. Lack of transparency get's scientific research killed because it goes against the ruling party view (see Bush and climate research); lack of transparency allows this country to torture in secret and thus put our active troops at risk, encourage even more terrorism, and ruin our moral standing as a country; lack of transparency allows the financial and other large industries capture their regulators and transfer risk to the federal government through bailouts. In short, lack of transparency leads to bad decisions that benefit a few at the expense of the many. As a mouthpiece, you don't really address my issue on transparency. And I get that the CC probably has transparency issues too, but it is the BOE that I am worried about now.

So instead of talking about transparency, you just talk about how Promethean boards are great. I am open to hearing how great they are. Sell me on them. I am sure they would be supported as an investment if you could show that they improve teacher production (allowing fewer teachers=more cost savings) or improved outcomes (higher test scores). Unfortunately, I don't see it being sold to the public. Instead I see overcrowded classrooms and complaints that we don't have any money in the school budget. Aside from promethean boards, I list other examples to show a lack of transparency, so take your pick.

Finally, I am sorry my rhetoric is demoralizing to you, but your rhetoric is equally demoralizing to me as a parent and taxpayer. I think my kids have great teachers. I think MoCo has great teachers. I support having MoCo with among the highest compensated teachers of comparative school districts. I don't think anyone wants to change this. I don't know all the details of teacher comp, but I sense that this budget crisis is not going to get fully solved through tax increases/cuts to other non-MCPS programs to fully fund teacher comp. That leaves either some scaling back of benefits or some layoffs or a combination. This is not just happening in MCPS. This is happening in many industries and many other local governments. It is not going to change. The view of life before the financial crisis needs to be reexamined. You have to recognize that we are all scaling back, so raising taxes just passes the problem to someone else. Healthcare too is a national issue. We all face healthcare issues unless we can fix the national system we have in place. Complaining to the people who pay your salary is not going to help. As for teachers leaving, I know many good teachers who have left the profession over the years. It happens. Teaching is not for everyone and teachers are not paid well for all the great work they do. I do wish we could pay teachers more, but it is not going to happen in this economy.

Finally, let me say this about the BOE. I think there are no alternative voices on that body. We need less apple ballot and more diversity. The union should have a place at the table, but so should other stakeholders. MCPS needs better oversight.

AngryTeacher wrote:First of all, let me inform you that “union mouthpiece” is not a slam. WE ARE THE UNION. I pay my dues so that my school representative can share OUR views at meetings. Sadly, we’ve been disappointed by slimy politicians, such as Ervin, who have used teachers and students to climb. (One of my own students years ago worked on her campaign b/c Ervin had preached about equity across the board. Ha – laughable!) So we’re at fault for having faith in politicians who claim they have an educational platform?

Furthermore, your use of “transparency” is interesting, as it’s THE buzzword on the PC blog. I’m sick of Sartucci and her crew preaching about these “secret meetings” and relentlessly biting down on the purchases of these Prometheans. They are fabulous tools to use in the classroom. (Do the research yourself to see how they can transform bland lessons into interactive assignments.) Sadly, the non-educators - who haven’t a clue as to what works best in the classroom - are the ones blaming these boards for our economic downfall.

The bottom line is this: If education is NOT a priority, then end your argument. Although you claim you’re not “bring[ing] teachers down,” your rhetoric is demoralizing. Most people with our level of education (I have three degrees, and this is my second profession.) make more money. And while we don’t enter this profession thinking we’ll make it rich, one of the financial benefits is a nice retirement/healthcare plan. Now THAT’S slowly dissolving. Statistically, school systems hire more people on average than county governments do. So in order to keep and attract the best, healthcare is a priority for us.

Again – Play the blame game and you’ll force good teachers out of the profession. Just last week I found out that two more young teachers were leaving for good – both in special education.

Anonymous wrote:Angry Teacher / union mouthpiece -

Don't confuse all the issues.

BOE has some explaining to do. Trust is at stake. This has nothing to do with being anti-teacher. There are other transparency issues too around selecting a superintendent, school site selection, and promethean board spending. We are reaching a tipping point. Maybe the apple ballot is starting to loose it's appeal.

As for teachers, MOCO totally supports teachers as they are the highest paid in the area, including Fairfax. My guess is that this will continue even with more health care costs paid by teachers. I don't hear anyone saying let's bring our teachers down to the bottom of the distribution. MoCo will always pay teachers more than most counties in this area/country. By the way, most of us feel underpaid relative to the CEO/Lawyer/Wall Street Trader types. Why should teachers be immune from the economy unlike other hardworking professions.

[AngryTeacher]

Your first statement is contradictory. You claim I should be "proud" to be a union member, yet you refer to me as a mouthpiece. I think most people recognize that mouthpiece is derogatory in the connotative sense. I am not a "mouthpiece" for the union; I am the union. There's a difference.

As most educated people do, I also consider both sides. However, eventually EACH person supports ONE side of an issue. As a TAXPAYER living in Mo Co (Why is it that the public seems to forget teachers pay taxes?), I choose to support teachers. What the public can’t seem to comprehend is that by NOT supporting the backbone of this nation, children will suffer. It’s startling to read your statements, which come across as crass: “As for teachers leaving, I know many good teachers who have left the profession over the years. It happens.” And you see no impact upon students when good teachers leave b/c they can’t afford to live on their salaries? This is the main point. As a teacher, taxpayer, and most importantly, parent - yes, I find your statements to be demoralizing b/c you obviously don't see the big picture.

So continue to harp on the financial crisis. If education is NOT a priority, move on. You’ll start to see schools fall apart, as class sizes become larger and teachers face burn out at alarming rates. Fewer talented people will enter the profession. The gap between the “haves” and “have nots” will widen. People will move to “better counties,” and property values will go down even more. Speaking from experience, crime will increase because we won’t have enough talented and dedicated individuals to prevent kids from dropping out.

So harp on, my friend. With so little public support, it’s only a matter of time before the ship sinks.

Anonymous wrote:Again, PP here. You should be proud for being in the Union. I have no problem with Unions. The operative word is mouthpiece. Being a mouthpiece is fine too, but to me it implies that you not responding to or considering alternative view points that advance the debate. You are just taking an advocacy position that I don't think considers all sides.

Meanwhile, why is my take on transparency interesting? Are you against transparency? I personally am fed up with the lack of transparency, not just in MCPS, but in the country. This is about more than Parents Coalition. This is about democracy. It may not be efficient, but it is how we should operate as a society. Lack of transparency get's scientific research killed because it goes against the ruling party view (see Bush and climate research); lack of transparency allows this country to torture in secret and thus put our active troops at risk, encourage even more terrorism, and ruin our moral standing as a country; lack of transparency allows the financial and other large industries capture their regulators and transfer risk to the federal government through bailouts. In short, lack of transparency leads to bad decisions that benefit a few at the expense of the many. As a mouthpiece, you don't really address my issue on transparency. And I get that the CC probably has transparency issues too, but it is the BOE that I am worried about now.

So instead of talking about transparency, you just talk about how Promethean boards are great. I am open to hearing how great they are. Sell me on them. I am sure they would be supported as an investment if you could show that they improve teacher production (allowing fewer teachers=more cost savings) or improved outcomes (higher test scores). Unfortunately, I don't see it being sold to the public. Instead I see overcrowded classrooms and complaints that we don't have any money in the school budget. Aside from promethean boards, I list other examples to show a lack of transparency, so take your pick.

Finally, I am sorry my rhetoric is demoralizing to you, but your rhetoric is equally demoralizing to me as a parent and taxpayer. I think my kids have great teachers. I think MoCo has great teachers. I support having MoCo with among the highest compensated teachers of comparative school districts. I don't think anyone wants to change this. I don't know all the details of teacher comp, but I sense that this budget crisis is not going to get fully solved through tax increases/cuts to other non-MCPS programs to fully fund teacher comp. That leaves either some scaling back of benefits or some layoffs or a combination. This is not just happening in MCPS. This is happening in many industries and many other local governments. It is not going to change. The view of life before the financial crisis needs to be reexamined. You have to recognize that we are all scaling back, so raising taxes just passes the problem to someone else. Healthcare too is a national issue. We all face healthcare issues unless we can fix the national system we have in place. Complaining to the people who pay your salary is not going to help. As for teachers leaving, I know many good teachers who have left the profession over the years. It happens. Teaching is not for everyone and teachers are not paid well for all the great work they do. I do wish we could pay teachers more, but it is not going to happen in this economy.

Finally, let me say this about the BOE. I think there are no alternative voices on that body. We need less apple ballot and more diversity. The union should have a place at the table, but so should other stakeholders. MCPS needs better oversight.

AngryTeacher wrote:First of all, let me inform you that “union mouthpiece” is not a slam. WE ARE THE UNION. I pay my dues so that my school representative can share OUR views at meetings. Sadly, we’ve been disappointed by slimy politicians, such as Ervin, who have used teachers and students to climb. (One of my own students years ago worked on her campaign b/c Ervin had preached about equity across the board. Ha – laughable!) So we’re at fault for having faith in politicians who claim they have an educational platform?

Furthermore, your use of “transparency” is interesting, as it’s THE buzzword on the PC blog. I’m sick of Sartucci and her crew preaching about these “secret meetings” and relentlessly biting down on the purchases of these Prometheans. They are fabulous tools to use in the classroom. (Do the research yourself to see how they can transform bland lessons into interactive assignments.) Sadly, the non-educators - who haven’t a clue as to what works best in the classroom - are the ones blaming these boards for our economic downfall.

The bottom line is this: If education is NOT a priority, then end your argument. Although you claim you’re not “bring[ing] teachers down,” your rhetoric is demoralizing. Most people with our level of education (I have three degrees, and this is my second profession.) make more money. And while we don’t enter this profession thinking we’ll make it rich, one of the financial benefits is a nice retirement/healthcare plan. Now THAT’S slowly dissolving. Statistically, school systems hire more people on average than county governments do. So in order to keep and attract the best, healthcare is a priority for us.

Again – Play the blame game and you’ll force good teachers out of the profession. Just last week I found out that two more young teachers were leaving for good – both in special education.

Anonymous wrote:Angry Teacher / union mouthpiece -

Don't confuse all the issues.

BOE has some explaining to do. Trust is at stake. This has nothing to do with being anti-teacher. There are other transparency issues too around selecting a superintendent, school site selection, and promethean board spending. We are reaching a tipping point. Maybe the apple ballot is starting to loose it's appeal.

As for teachers, MOCO totally supports teachers as they are the highest paid in the area, including Fairfax. My guess is that this will continue even with more health care costs paid by teachers. I don't hear anyone saying let's bring our teachers down to the bottom of the distribution. MoCo will always pay teachers more than most counties in this area/country. By the way, most of us feel underpaid relative to the CEO/Lawyer/Wall Street Trader types. Why should teachers be immune from the economy unlike other hardworking professions.

[Anonymous]

As most educated people do, I also consider both sides. However, eventually EACH person supports ONE side of an issue. As a TAXPAYER living in Mo Co (Why is it that the public seems to forget teachers pay taxes?), I choose to support teachers.
Not the PP you're addressing, but here's the crux of the dispute, I think. It's fine that you support teachers, certainly given your self-interest. however, the rest of the taxpayers support education - which is not necessarily the same thing. Or rather, teachers are one part of education (albeit an important part). You apparently believe that the terms "support teachers" and "support education" are interchangable, and that conflation speaks volumes. Contrary to what you believe, it is possible to support education without accepting every proposal put forth by the union.

Your position, when confronted with the very real fiscal problems of the county (and the country as a whole), is to ignore those realities, predict the destruction of education in Montgomery County, and throw up the straw man that the poster doesn't make education a priority. When you attempt to paint everyone who disagrees with you as a someone who doesn't value education, it makes reasoned discussion difficult - and it makes you look silly.

[AngryTeacher]

So you believe that “ . . . it is possible to support education without accepting every proposal put forth by the union.” Then please propose how you can support education w/o supporting teachers.

I never said teachers and the concept of educating were one unit. One creates the other. You apparently don’t understand cause and effect.

To use an analogy, can you support freedom without supporting troops? So let’s win a war by eliminating half the tanks on the front. Or perhaps we can distribute helmets to every other soldier. Let’s arm soldiers with water pistols.

Children cannot learn without teachers. I’m not exaggerating when I say that we’re going to hell in a handbasket, as many good teachers are choosing to leave – with the subpar educators remaining to teach classes of 30+ students. You will never attract the best and the brightest with low pay and poor benefits. Martyrdom, by the way, is not a requirement of this job.

I am not the one who looks silly.

Anonymous wrote:As most educated people do, I also consider both sides. However, eventually EACH person supports ONE side of an issue. As a TAXPAYER living in Mo Co (Why is it that the public seems to forget teachers pay taxes?), I choose to support teachers.
Not the PP you're addressing, but here's the crux of the dispute, I think. It's fine that you support teachers, certainly given your self-interest. however, the rest of the taxpayers support education - which is not necessarily the same thing. Or rather, teachers are one part of education (albeit an important part). You apparently believe that the terms "support teachers" and "support education" are interchangable, and that conflation speaks volumes. Contrary to what you believe, it is possible to support education without accepting every proposal put forth by the union.

Your position, when confronted with the very real fiscal problems of the county (and the country as a whole), is to ignore those realities, predict the destruction of education in Montgomery County, and throw up the straw man that the poster doesn't make education a priority. When you attempt to paint everyone who disagrees with you as a someone who doesn't value education, it makes reasoned discussion difficult - and it makes you look silly.

[Anonymous]

AngryTeacher wrote:I am not the one who looks silly.

Yes, you do. You bring up many valid and important points, but they are getting lost amid all the ranting and doomsday scenarios.

[Anonymous]

Glad to know that the children are being held hostage by the political process and unions.

[Anonymous]

I was hoping the discussion would be about what is the best way to use the money surplus. Is it to bring back the teachers that MCPS let go (atleast that is what I had heard), etc.



Yes, you do. You bring up many valid and important points, but they are getting lost amid all the ranting and doomsday scenarios.

[Anonymous]

I fail to see how not increasing the teachers' contributions to their health insurance reduces class size? Angry Teacher, can you explain that to me? As I understand it, having a job is better than not having a job, and I'd expect there to be a line of teachers waiting to take the job of someone who "leaves the profession" because the insurance premiums went up. I know of two such teachers who are biding time for a permanent position substituting here and there.

I actually support higher teacher salaries and less administration and spending on frills, but that doesn't mean that anyone can ignore economic realities that are affecting most all of us, including the fact that my fed insurance premiums are going up, but my income is not.

I do have a dog in this fight because my spouse has gone back to school to become a teacher - a long time dream. I would like to see higher salaries and more teachers, but having been out there in the fight, we know the realities that have existed since 2008. And I have a child just entering the MoCo system in a newly renovated but already overcrowded school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Glad to know that the children are being held hostage by the political process and unions.

The Council has said it will authorize spending this surplus in educational programming. But so far MCPS says it's using it for employee health insurance.

[AngryTeacher]

uh huh - And this isn't the beginning of my doomsday scenario?
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=2953

I've already heard several parents complain about "these students" choosing their neighborhood school.

MCPS Elementary Schools to Hold Enrollment Option Meetings
May 6, 2011

Seven MCPS elementary schools held or are holding meetings this month to provide information about enrollment options that may be available to parents if the schools do not meet requirements under the federal No Child Left Behind law, or NCLB.

The meetings began this week and will continue next week. All meetings begin at 7 p.m. The meetings next week are:

May 9
- Roscoe Nix Elementary School
- Oak View Elementary School

May 10
- Harmony Hills Elementary School
- South Lake Elementary School

Meetings were held this week at Cresthaven Elementary School, Kemp Mill Elementary School and Sargent Shriver Elementary School. Parents who did not attend those meetings should contact the school for more information.

NCLB provides parents with the option to seek enrollment of their child/children in another designated school if their home Title I school has not demonstrated two years of sustained improvement in overall student performance. The schools listed above are awaiting the results of the 2010-2011 Maryland School Assessment (MSA), that are scheduled to be released this summer, to determine if they will be required to provide the School Choice Option for the next school year.

These identified Title I schools did not achieve Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) on the 2009-2010 MSA. If they do not meet the AYP targets in the same content area(s) on the 2010-2011 MSA, the School Choice Option will be offered.

An information packet, including notification about the meetings, has been mailed to parents. The federal Title I School Choice options for each of these Title I schools are listed on the MCPS website.

For additional information, please call Dr. Felicia E. Lanham Tarason, director, Division of Title I Programs, at 301-230-0660.

Anonymous wrote:

AngryTeacher wrote:I am not the one who looks silly.

Yes, you do. You bring up many valid and important points, but they are getting lost amid all the ranting and doomsday scenarios.

[Anonymous]

Typically the percentage of parents who to leave their "failing" school is small. Studies show that they are either satisfied/deterred by the logistics of away from the neighborhood school/don't want to give up all the resources their school is elligible for..

[Anonymous]

AngryTeacher wrote:uh huh - And this isn't the beginning of my doomsday scenario?
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=2953

I've already heard several parents complain about "these students" choosing their neighborhood school.


new to this particular thread of the conversation, but why is this a doomsday scenario?? The home schools don't appear to be progressing. If parents are interested enough or can do something about it by moving their children to other public schools that can handle an influx of children, then they should be allowed to do so. Perhaps the concentration of poverty, special needs, ESOL in those schools contributed to the lack of AYP and dispersing the concentration may make it likely for at least some of "these students" to get a good education. I am all for school choice for all people - not just people who can afford private - I went to a magnet school when I was little, and it was the best thing my parents could have ever done for me. Frankly the parents who are complaining about "these students" are racists, classists and xenophobes. Pure and simple.

[AngryTeacher]

I agree. Those parents are indeed racist. But what would you do, PP, if you had the chance to move your child to a hgh-performing school (probably located in a more desirable area)? NCLB is creating more racial tension, even though the intent was to close the gap. again - laughable

But let's list the issues here:
- In "failing" schools (by NCLB standards), parents are given the choice of moving their children to a high-performing school. OK - appears fair in print
However, let's see how many of these parents are in upper socioeconomic brackets and have the means to get what they want.
- What is morale like in the schools listed below? especially after the "Haves" abandon ship?
- On top of that, let's cut into teachers' steps, COLAs and benefits packages.
- Which teacher, working under those conditions, can continue to make progress with students? Furthermore, if you're a young, inexperienced teacher who is working two jobs, there is little time and energy left to plan and grade.

We are not martyrs.

So to the poster above (06/14/2011 11:56 ) who stated - "I fail to see how not increasing the teachers' contributions to their health insurance reduces class size." - where did I ever make that connection? If you review the blurbs above, you'll see how being able to live comfortably in the county in which you work can ATTRACT and RETAIN good teachers. This year alone, we've had 3 career-changers leave our school - and this is in addition to young, talented teachers who could find jobs with more pay and less red tape.

And my school is definitely not on the high-performing list.

Anonymous wrote:

AngryTeacher wrote:uh huh - And this isn't the beginning of my doomsday scenario?
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=2953

I've already heard several parents complain about "these students" choosing their neighborhood school.


new to this particular thread of the conversation, but why is this a doomsday scenario?? The home schools don't appear to be progressing. If parents are interested enough or can do something about it by moving their children to other public schools that can handle an influx of children, then they should be allowed to do so. Perhaps the concentration of poverty, special needs, ESOL in those schools contributed to the lack of AYP and dispersing the concentration may make it likely for at least some of "these students" to get a good education. I am all for school choice for all people - not just people who can afford private - I went to a magnet school when I was little, and it was the best thing my parents could have ever done for me. Frankly the parents who are complaining about "these students" are racists, classists and xenophobes. Pure and simple.

[Anonymous]

And my school is definitely not on the high-performing list.

I'm shocked.