Vincent Gray wants to raise your taxes

Anonymous
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:PP here. Having said that, my guess is that as DC continues to gentrify, a greater and greater share of homeless will be living in PG county. You seem to be arguing that as the population of very poor an homeless continues to grow in MD, that MD won't care about this problem, even though if we were to ignore the problem in DC, we'd be inviting all sorts of increased "social problems." Won't MD (and VA) also fund increased social spending in order to head-off these problems as their homeless population grows?


You still didn't get around to explaining "Step C" above. Yes, the ideas you present make sense and if you ruled the world, you could dictate that things happen as you prefer. But, as far as I know, you don't rule the world and -- if you are like me -- things rarely occur according to your preferences.

Mayor Gray had to put together a budget. He did that. He massively chopped human services. He included a small tax increase on incomes greater than $200,000. He didn't have the luxury of dreaming about what he would do in a perfect world (in which he was our beneficent dictator). He had to deal with the real world. So, he dealt with it. How would you deal with it?

I don't believe Gray's cuts or even more massive cuts will cause poor people to move to MD or VA and provoke increased services from those states. I think the poor will just suffer more and the rest of us will suffer from the increased social problems. To the extent that gentrification does push the poor in to VA and, more likely, MD, those states will not readily improve their services and the poor will just suffer more in their new locations and the people of MD and VA will suffer the resulting social problems. Maybe at some point all of us will achieve greater enlightenment and we will come up with a better solutions, but right now I think our preferred solution is to let other people suffer as long as we don't have to pay more taxes.


Sorry, I wasn't super clear on this: I don't have any problems with either the tax increase (other than that it's small) or the cuts to social services.

As far as your position--that DC should take care of everyone in the region who shows a need, regardless of whether MD or VA do--I disagree. We're doing quite a bit, certainly a hell of a lot more than any other jurisdiction. If we try to do more, we'll only do it worse. And bankrupt ourselves in the process.
jsteele
Site Admin Offline
Anonymous wrote:
As far as your position--that DC should take care of everyone in the region who shows a need, regardless of whether MD or VA do--I disagree. We're doing quite a bit, certainly a hell of a lot more than any other jurisdiction. If we try to do more, we'll only do it worse. And bankrupt ourselves in the process.


Well, that's not really my position. I never said that we should take care of everyone or try to do more. I just think we need to try to maintain what we have. It's undeniable that Gray's cuts are disproportionately aimed at the poor. Yet, almost all the the complaining will come from those who might have to pay an extra $200 or so in taxes.
Anonymous
Well, that's not really my position. I never said that we should take care of everyone or try to do more. I just think we need to try to maintain what we have. It's undeniable that Gray's cuts are disproportionately aimed at the poor. Yet, almost all the the complaining will come from those who might have to pay an extra $200 or so in taxes.


Not even sure if that's the case. Do you really think there are a lot of DC households making more than $200k who are going to complain about $200 per year. My guess is that most of the complaining you hear comes from teabagger types living in the exurbs, who like to complain on principle.

Though I definitely agree that the poor have more of a reason to complain.

I have mixed feelings on this issue--I think we should do more *nationally* to construct a comprehensive safety net, but I think a lot of what we do at the District level is counterproductive. Anyway, thanks for the sounding board.
Anonymous
I am crazy...........If you make 200k, 0.4% = .004, $200,000 x .004 = $200??
maybe $800 or $1000 for 250k ...
jsteele
Site Admin Offline
Anonymous wrote:I am crazy...........If you make 200k, 0.4% = .004, $200,000 x .004 = $200??
maybe $800 or $1000 for 250k ...


Google "marginal tax rates" and you will regain your sanity. The tax increase would only be applied to the 200,001st dollar and up. The first $200,000 would be taxed at lower rates.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I am crazy...........If you make 200k, 0.4% = .004, $200,000 x .004 = $200??
maybe $800 or $1000 for 250k ...


Good news. To you, this will look like a tax decrease. Apparently you have been overpaying for years.

The first $4200 you make, you pay $0.
Anything between $4200 and $10000, you pay an 4% on the additional amount over $4200
Anything between $10000 and $40000, you pay 6% on the additional amount over 10,000
Anything over $40,000 you pay 8.5% on the additional amount over 40,000
The proposal is that anything additional over $200,000 is taxed at 8.9%

A taxpayer who had taxable income of 40,000 (after deductions) doesn't pay 6%. They pay 5.1%

A taxpayer who had taxable income of $60,000 doesn't pay 8.5%. They pay 6.2%

So if you had taxable income of $250,000 (after your deductions), then in the old system you paid $19,882 in taxes. That's an overall rate of 7.95%
In the new system, you paid $20,082. That's an overall rate of 8.03% $200 more.



Anonymous
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am crazy...........If you make 200k, 0.4% = .004, $200,000 x .004 = $200??
maybe $800 or $1000 for 250k ...

Google "marginal tax rates" and you will regain your sanity. The tax increase would only be applied to the 200,001st dollar and up. The first $200,000 would be taxed at lower rates.

I think "I am crazy" is an example of a large percentage of people who believe that the minute they get into that higher tax bracket their overall tax rate makes a quantum jump upward. I would bet that most of them (probably including "crazy") are quite aware how taxes work, yet still have that same gut reaction when they don't force themselves to stop and think it through -- our thought processes are complex, and we don't always connect the dots.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:...
So if you had taxable income of $250,000 (after your deductions), then in the old system you paid $19,882 in taxes. That's an overall rate of 7.95%
In the new system, you paid $20,082. That's an overall rate of 8.03% $200 more.

And it might be worth adding that if your taxable income was 250K, you probably grossed something like 315K, so in terms of total income, your overall rate would be under 6.4%. We all owe Jeff our gratitude for starting this wonderful website that has cut your tax rate from 8.9% down to 6.4%, a decrease of over 28%!!!!
Anonymous
We make over $200K HHI, and in all honestly we probably spend more than $200/year at Starbucks. It's a very, very small sacrifice for us, and I'd imagine most other families that that HHI.

I'm wondering why taxes aren't going up for those who earn more than $300K, $400K, $500K and up.

Also, instead of taxing real estate transactions, DC would probably do better to increase property taxes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am crazy...........If you make 200k, 0.4% = .004, $200,000 x .004 = $200??
maybe $800 or $1000 for 250k ...

Google "marginal tax rates" and you will regain your sanity. The tax increase would only be applied to the 200,001st dollar and up. The first $200,000 would be taxed at lower rates.

I think "I am crazy" is an example of a large percentage of people who believe that the minute they get into that higher tax bracket their overall tax rate makes a quantum jump upward. I would bet that most of them (probably including "crazy") are quite aware how taxes work, yet still have that same gut reaction when they don't force themselves to stop and think it through -- our thought processes are complex, and we don't always connect the dots.


It's the "common sense" brigade. You don't have to know anything as long as your gut is telling you what to do. Also known as the modern GOP's base.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:We make over $200K HHI, and in all honestly we probably spend more than $200/year at Starbucks. It's a very, very small sacrifice for us, and I'd imagine most other families that that HHI.

I'm wondering why taxes aren't going up for those who earn more than $300K, $400K, $500K and up.

Also, instead of taxing real estate transactions, DC would probably do better to increase property taxes.


It may be a small sacrifice to you but it is a forced sacrifice. Thatt is the famous liberal line, it's just a small sacrifice. Well if that is what you want to do with your money go ahead, why force others to do it as well? D.C. takes a lot of money from its residents and gives very little in return and now they even want more.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We make over $200K HHI, and in all honestly we probably spend more than $200/year at Starbucks. It's a very, very small sacrifice for us, and I'd imagine most other families that that HHI.

I'm wondering why taxes aren't going up for those who earn more than $300K, $400K, $500K and up.

Also, instead of taxing real estate transactions, DC would probably do better to increase property taxes.


It may be a small sacrifice to you but it is a forced sacrifice. Thatt is the famous liberal line, it's just a small sacrifice. Well if that is what you want to do with your money go ahead, why force others to do it as well? D.C. takes a lot of money from its residents and gives very little in return and now they even want more.


Yes, and the GOP line is that any tax increase is the same. Senator X voted 91 times to increase taxes! Yes, but if he voted for bigger offsetting tax decreases, you can be sure the Republican attack ads won't mention that part.

You could be living in a state with no income taxes if you wanted to. You live in the district by choice. Let's see whether it is in your economic interest to move over that $200.
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