what exactly is illegal about polygamy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But why do you care if an 80 year old gets a 16 year old? As long as its not my daughter. Most women won't want that kind of relationship, so many women will leave along with their boyfriends. The clannishness has to do with the taboo nature. If it were more out in the open, there would be better choices for these women. WRT to the lonely young men, they can come out and meet tons of availabel women.

I don't think you get how this works.

The 16 year olds don't have boyfriends. they have been brought up their whole lives to think that there is not choice and that if they disobey they will burn in hell for all eternity. The clannishness is not to do with the taboo nature, it is integral to the whole deal. Do you think these 16 year olds would sign up for this system unless they had been brought up in a very rigid, controlled system? Of course not. The system survives by keeping them ignorant and in fear. Legalisation would do nothing to change that, it would just allow it to become much more prevalent.

Of course I care what happens to 16 year olds that are not my daughter. It is called civilization.

Thank you for describing the reality of the situation so well. Others needed to hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But why do you care if an 80 year old gets a 16 year old? As long as its not my daughter. Most women won't want that kind of relationship, so many women will leave along with their boyfriends. The clannishness has to do with the taboo nature. If it were more out in the open, there would be better choices for these women. WRT to the lonely young men, they can come out and meet tons of availabel women.

I don't think you get how this works.

The 16 year olds don't have boyfriends. they have been brought up their whole lives to think that there is not choice and that if they disobey they will burn in hell for all eternity. The clannishness is not to do with the taboo nature, it is integral to the whole deal. Do you think these 16 year olds would sign up for this system unless they had been brought up in a very rigid, controlled system? Of course not. The system survives by keeping them ignorant and in fear. Legalisation would do nothing to change that, it would just allow it to become much more prevalent.

Of course I care what happens to 16 year olds that are not my daughter. It is called civilization.

Thank you for describing the reality of the situation so well. Others needed to hear it.

BUUUT, who cares!
I mean, I might not want to be married to your husband any more than they want your husband, and you don't want their lives. TONS of 16 year olds get involved with the "wrong" person. Look, if coercion is their MO, then that is sad, but not illegal if she is 16 or older. It is not my job to chase around everyone who is in a situation that I would not like for myself. I care more about the women who are at risk of being killed by their monogamous spouses.
Polygamy is not my cup of tea, just like MANY other types of relationships, gay or what ever. But it is NONE of my business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But why do you care if an 80 year old gets a 16 year old? As long as its not my daughter. Most women won't want that kind of relationship, so many women will leave along with their boyfriends. The clannishness has to do with the taboo nature. If it were more out in the open, there would be better choices for these women. WRT to the lonely young men, they can come out and meet tons of availabel women.

I don't think you get how this works.

The 16 year olds don't have boyfriends. they have been brought up their whole lives to think that there is not choice and that if they disobey they will burn in hell for all eternity. The clannishness is not to do with the taboo nature, it is integral to the whole deal. Do you think these 16 year olds would sign up for this system unless they had been brought up in a very rigid, controlled system? Of course not. The system survives by keeping them ignorant and in fear. Legalisation would do nothing to change that, it would just allow it to become much more prevalent.

Of course I care what happens to 16 year olds that are not my daughter. It is called civilization.

Thank you for describing the reality of the situation so well. Others needed to hear it.

BUUUT, who cares!
I mean, I might not want to be married to your husband any more than they want your husband, and you don't want their lives. TONS of 16 year olds get involved with the "wrong" person. Look, if coercion is their MO, then that is sad, but not illegal if she is 16 or older. It is not my job to chase around everyone who is in a situation that I would not like for myself. I care more about the women who are at risk of being killed by their monogamous spouses.
Polygamy is not my cup of tea, just like MANY other types of relationships, gay or what ever. But it is NONE of my business.

It should be more than not your "cup of tea." These girls are basically under mind-control. TONS of women get raped, too. That doesn't make it right. Not expecting you to chase people around, but the situation should cause far more concern than you're suggesting. Just as we should be concerned about 16 year olds on the streets, prostituting themselves, getting involved with drugs, these young women basically have no choice. They're programmed from a very young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seeing the Sister Wives on NBC yesterday prompted me to think about their show....
What exactly is illegal in the U.S. - isn't it multiple marriages? As in, multiple documents marriages?
What is illegal about a man living with many women and children, in which only one is his legal wife?
Assuming no illegalities on tax returns, official school records, etc.

Since no one actually answered your question, I was curious and found this about Utah law -

"The state law reads: "A person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another person." "

From http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/sister-wives-polygamist-family-speaks-bigamy-investigation/story?id=13075534&page=2

So apparently if the Sister Wives husband had not actually legally married any of the women he lives with, he'd be in the clear. Unless Utah has common law marriage.

[Anonymous]

Could someone please send some more wives my way? I could really use some help managing my husband and sharing the work. No one under the age of 25 though. They're too much work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They usually get raided for welfare fraud. The polygamous compouds in Utah and the west apply for welfare benefits for all the kids on the grounds that they have no source of male support (no marriage).

why is that fraud?

It is fraud because the women will apply for benefits and claim that they don't know who the father is or where he is. She knows where he is, and he has an income. She is often living in the same household with him (and lots of other women) as one family, and his income (and the income of other family members), is required on welfare applications. Basically, the wives represent themselves as single mothers with dependent children.

The other issue is that, even aside from the fraud, most polygamist men simply cannot support the multitude of wives and children without government benefits. These families can only exist due to government subsidy. Not sure if this is really different from all the other families that cannot exist without government benefits, though.

They should be eligible if they can't support the kids.

But their husbands can definitely support the kids, so they are filing fraudulent applications. The United Effort Plan (Fundamentalist Mormon Church) has huge funds. You are only eligible for welfare if neither parent can support his/her child. And you are only eligible for a limited time (Remember Welfare-to-Work? It's not just for poor inner city women).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
BUUUT, who cares!
I mean, I might not want to be married to your husband any more than they want your husband, and you don't want their lives. TONS of 16 year olds get involved with the "wrong" person. Look, if coercion is their MO, then that is sad, but not illegal if she is 16 or older. It is not my job to chase around everyone who is in a situation that I would not like for myself. I care more about the women who are at risk of being killed by their monogamous spouses.
Polygamy is not my cup of tea, just like MANY other types of relationships, gay or what ever. But it is NONE of my business.

The test is not "whether you would like the situation yourself", the test is one of public policy and meaningful consent. I have no problem with gay marriage etc. One issue with polygamy is that it creates a system where these 16 year olds have no meaningful consent, since they are brought up to believe that they have no choice in the matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Polygamy is in the bible. So it is biblical
It is in the old and the new testament

There are polygamist men who are able to support their wives and children. Some that don't. There are wives who are able to support their children, and ones that do not.

Animal sacrifice is in the bible. So is ritualistic stoning...I'm not sure what your point is.

[Anonymous]

This is the 21:45 poster. A quick google search on "polygamist arrested" yielded some results. Just on one page, a few were arrested for tampering with evidence after a teen called and reported abuse. The others were arrested for having sex with underage girls. There was one case in Canada that said someone was arrested for polygamy, but prior similar cases had been thrown out of court because the defense claims they are practicing their religion.

There was nothing said about government assistance fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
BUUUT, who cares!
I mean, I might not want to be married to your husband any more than they want your husband, and you don't want their lives. TONS of 16 year olds get involved with the "wrong" person. Look, if coercion is their MO, then that is sad, but not illegal if she is 16 or older. It is not my job to chase around everyone who is in a situation that I would not like for myself. I care more about the women who are at risk of being killed by their monogamous spouses.
Polygamy is not my cup of tea, just like MANY other types of relationships, gay or what ever. But it is NONE of my business.

The test is not "whether you would like the situation yourself", the test is one of public policy and meaningful consent. I have no problem with gay marriage etc. One issue with polygamy is that it creates a system where these 16 year olds have no meaningful consent, since they are brought up to believe that they have no choice in the matter.

I think that any teen brought up in a religious compound does not have many choices in their life. But, we can't go breaking up those places because of freedom of religion. I'm certain they do more harm than good, but it is not the job of government to do something until they start stockpiling weapons or marrying 12 year olds. Even if it was legal, I think these places thrive as separatists. Not all polygamists are living with hundreds of children on a Utah or Texas compound. I'm sure there are some that are relatively normal members of society. The ones that are getting arrested are not being arrested for polygamy. (see my prior post about google search)

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting to see how the polygamist family structure in the U.S. contexts mentioned here compare to those of other cultures.

In West Africa, at least, I know that each woman has her own household---sometimes individual homes on a shared compound or separate homes spread across an urban environment. The husband must be able to provide certain basics before taking on a new wife, who is then pretty much on her own to start a small business to provide for all of the extras. But I don't know how any sort of bride pride or dowry factors into these situations or if there are other conditions that go along with additional marriages.

In Muslim traditions, I believe there's a limit on the number of wives a man may have (4) and there may be the requirement that he provide equivalent settings for each wife and similar opportunities for the children of each wife.

[Anonymous]

But their husbands can definitely support the kids, so they are filing fraudulent applications. The United Effort Plan (Fundamentalist Mormon Church) has huge funds. You are only eligible for welfare if neither parent can support his/her child. And you are only eligible for a limited time (Remember Welfare-to-Work? It's not just for poor inner city women).

Yeah - the $$ that is allocated to the children is put into the master fund. The church leaders (think Warren Jeffs) controls the master fund. Definitely read "Under the Banner of Heaven." Really good book.

[Anonymous]

"Polygamy is in the bible. So it is biblical
It is in the old and the new testament "

Where is it in the New Testament?

[Anonymous]

Gnarly old men & lucious young women? Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the 21:45 poster. A quick google search on "polygamist arrested" yielded some results. Just on one page, a few were arrested for tampering with evidence after a teen called and reported abuse. The others were arrested for having sex with underage girls. There was one case in Canada that said someone was arrested for polygamy, but prior similar cases had been thrown out of court because the defense claims they are practicing their religion.

There was nothing said about government assistance fraud.

I think you just answered your own question. If people are arrested for welfare fraud, they are not arrested for polygamy.