Is there a market for a cheaper no frills private school

[Anonymous]

Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

Their mission is to put tuition dollars towards best practices, small classes, great teachers, personal attention, strong curriculum, strong technology, and financial aid. What you won't see is a gym, a performing arts center, a climbing wall, astroturf, or a totally kitted out science lab. The goal is to keep the tuition in check, while providing the students with a top notch education. Exmissions are consistently strong (Sidwell, NCS, StA, Maret, GDS, etc), and the student and parent population are low-key and focus on substance, not flash.

My kids love Grace, and we deliberately did not want our kids to attend a school in the early years that looked more like an exclusive country club than an elementary school. We've been very happy. And yes, I even love the old graveyard next to the lower school.

[Anonymous]

and who would want to live in Atlanta? that's the answer. supply and demand

Atlanta proper (not the burbs) is a nice city with a reasonable amount to do and a diverse poplulation. Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:cheap, no frills private school = public school in wealthy counties

not really. despite the hype the public schools in the expensive zip code are mostly truly lacking.

[Anonymous]

Grace is on CT Ave just outside the beltway. Depending where in DC you are it could be pretty close. It costs $17k in kindergarten and goes up to $19k+ in middle school. BTW that is lower than last year--the school took a hard look at cost structure. It is religious but inclusive. Decidedly nonfancy facilities. Also a very warm and unpretentious community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

I don't see any Form 990s for Grace Episcopal. Are you sure it's not associated with a church?

[Anonymous]

Grace is to churchy for me. The school is not going to attract a large number of non-Christians, the diversity really matters a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're really interested in studying this, you should look closely that the public Form 990s that schools file. It's not as easy as saying "Let's just cut the expensive fancy stuff."

As an example, here is Maret's 2009 Form 990:http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/530/530211355/530211355_200906_990.pdf . Look especially at the summary on page 1, and the detailed breakdown of revenue & expenses on pages 10-11. Most large ongoing costs are pretty necessary to the functioning of the school, since they are linked to payroll for teachers and other people. So if you want to cut tuition to $19k, you need to find about $7m in "fat" you can cut from this budget.

Major items in Maret budget:
Tuition & fees: $17m
Salaries, benefits, payroll taxes, etc: $11.4m
Grants (financial aid?): $2.3m
Office, occupancy & other operating expenses: ~$1.2-1.6m
Depreciation: $1.2m
Interest payments on bonds: $845k
Other (?) expenses: $720k
+ various other costs
Total revenue less expenses: $1.9m

It seems like the biggest targets for cuts would be the number of teachers (which results in bigger classes and fewer specials), or grants & financial aid (which carries its own problems). I suspect either of those changes would harm morale among teachers, staff, and parents, which erodes the other positive qualities and dries up any donations from parents.

I'm not saying it's impossible to operate a no-frills school that offers high-quality education. And I'm not trying to deter discussion of the subject. But I don't think there are many easy solutions.

You could eliminate financial aid b/c at 19K a year, you would still have all kinds of diversity. Cut a school nurse, get a technician, get rid of some counselors, share teachers with other schools (art teacher works two private schools), class sizes up to 19-20 kids after 4th grade (best practices says it's OK after 4th grade)...

I'm an art teacher and I would only take a job like that if I were desperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

I don't see any Form 990s for Grace Episcopal. Are you sure it's not associated with a church?

Grace is affiliated with Grace Episcopal Church on Georgia Avenue in Silver Spring, and is considered an outreach of the church. That being said, the school doesn't receive any financial support from the church, and while they share a chaplain, the relationship is really in spirit only, so to speak. This is very different from parochial schools, who receive direct and significant financial support from the associated parish and congregation. It is an Episcopal school, but is very welcoming to families of all faiths. I challenge anyone to find a more diverse student body. There is a 15 minute chapel once a week at each campus, which also functions as an assembly and a time for school announcements. Not sure about the poster who said it was too "churchy". The curriculum certainly isn't Christian based, or biased, and the messages of the Chaplain in chapel are Golden Rule-type messages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

I don't see any Form 990s for Grace Episcopal. Are you sure it's not associated with a church?

Grace is affiliated with Grace Episcopal Church on Georgia Avenue in Silver Spring, and is considered an outreach of the church. That being said, the school doesn't receive any financial support from the church, and while they share a chaplain, the relationship is really in spirit only, so to speak. This is very different from parochial schools, who receive direct and significant financial support from the associated parish and congregation. It is an Episcopal school, but is very welcoming to families of all faiths. I challenge anyone to find a more diverse student body. There is a 15 minute chapel once a week at each campus, which also functions as an assembly and a time for school announcements. Not sure about the poster who said it was too "churchy". The curriculum certainly isn't Christian based, or biased, and the messages of the Chaplain in chapel are Golden Rule-type messages.

That said, it is a model low priced school, just wish the academics were stronger and more best practices, not sure what they do for math. Still, take out the name "episcopal" and there would be more people interested.

[Anonymous]

25K for a k-8 is still high in my eyes. I think that 19 K is starting to sound reasonable.

[Anonymous]

10:20 and 10:42 nailed it: if a non-religious school charges $19K, then parents will get what they pay for: larger classes, limited extras, and teachers with one eye on openings at better-paying privates.

Drives me nuts what we pay to send two to a Big 3 yet I am no fool on what it costs to run a quality independent - and I am not talking about infrastructure. I want great teachers in my kids' classrooms and I want fabulous teachers for art, music, PE and science. That is going to cost money. FWIW, I am not interested in schools "sharing" teachers - unless a teacher wanted that arrangement. But very few folks find "share" jobs to be all that great.

[Anonymous]

pp, I disagree. I think that it is easy to do for the K-8 schools, and sometimes I think that the kids in the K-12 schools are being ripped off. There is no 3rd grader who appreciates a bug fancy gym. I would prefer a cost separation. Norwood is K-8 and about 25 K, my kids go there and there is TONS of fat to trim, and the school could use that building more to rent out space on the weekends and so on. The lawns do not need that much attention, and other landscaping could be scaled back. There are some under worked staff members too. The place looks like a country club. The head of all of these schools do quite well too...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

I don't see any Form 990s for Grace Episcopal. Are you sure it's not associated with a church?

Grace is affiliated with Grace Episcopal Church on Georgia Avenue in Silver Spring, and is considered an outreach of the church. That being said, the school doesn't receive any financial support from the church, and while they share a chaplain, the relationship is really in spirit only, so to speak. This is very different from parochial schools, who receive direct and significant financial support from the associated parish and congregation. It is an Episcopal school, but is very welcoming to families of all faiths. I challenge anyone to find a more diverse student body. There is a 15 minute chapel once a week at each campus, which also functions as an assembly and a time for school announcements. Not sure about the poster who said it was too "churchy". The curriculum certainly isn't Christian based, or biased, and the messages of the Chaplain in chapel are Golden Rule-type messages.

That said, it is a model low priced school, just wish the academics were stronger and more best practices, not sure what they do for math. Still, take out the name "episcopal" and there would be more people interested.

I've had three kids there, and I'm not sure what you are basing your opinions on. The academics are rigorous in the upper school, and graduates go on the the big name schools or top public magnets. They use Everyday Math, which I am not in love with, but the teachers have the latitude to augment and differentiate within the classroom. The lower school is NAEYC accredited and follows the responsive classroom model. I suppose if it weren't Episcopal, it might attract more Agnostics? Atheists? Non-Christians? Maybe. But the religious aspect is about as low key as it can get, and frankly, I like the daily serving of good citizenship and moral fiber it provides. Unless you've had children there, I'm not sure how you can speak to what actually happens in the school.

[Anonymous]

Another parent who would transfer her kids in a minute if there were a strong option out there for less than $20K. Hope someone with a plan out there is watching this thread. Facilities are nice, but beside the point. Ever been inside TJ? And it's the best in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grace Episcopal in MD is following that model, although it does have a religious component, it is not financially tied with the Church.

I don't see any Form 990s for Grace Episcopal. Are you sure it's not associated with a church?

Grace is affiliated with Grace Episcopal Church on Georgia Avenue in Silver Spring, and is considered an outreach of the church. That being said, the school doesn't receive any financial support from the church, and while they share a chaplain, the relationship is really in spirit only, so to speak. This is very different from parochial schools, who receive direct and significant financial support from the associated parish and congregation. It is an Episcopal school, but is very welcoming to families of all faiths. I challenge anyone to find a more diverse student body. There is a 15 minute chapel once a week at each campus, which also functions as an assembly and a time for school announcements. Not sure about the poster who said it was too "churchy". The curriculum certainly isn't Christian based, or biased, and the messages of the Chaplain in chapel are Golden Rule-type messages.

That said, it is a model low priced school, just wish the academics were stronger and more best practices, not sure what they do for math. Still, take out the name "episcopal" and there would be more people interested.

I've had three kids there, and I'm not sure what you are basing your opinions on. The academics are rigorous in the upper school, and graduates go on the the big name schools or top public magnets. They use Everyday Math, which I am not in love with, but the teachers have the latitude to augment and differentiate within the classroom. The lower school is NAEYC accredited and follows the responsive classroom model. I suppose if it weren't Episcopal, it might attract more Agnostics? Atheists? Non-Christians? Maybe. But the religious aspect is about as low key as it can get, and frankly, I like the daily serving of good citizenship and moral fiber it provides. Unless you've had children there, I'm not sure how you can speak to what actually happens in the school.

I am sure that it is a fine school, but there is always room for improvement, that goes for Sidwell too. Look, there is a subset of parents who want private schools for strong academics and specials, not the snob appeal. The best practices dictate the most efficient way to do this, but I am not sure the expensive or cheap schools are doing it the best way. The point here is that it would be nice to find a relatively inexpensive way to do it right.