How did well rounded kids with high stats fare this year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dd, also top 5% and 1570, ordinary ECs, no STEM awards, is going to Michigan in STEM. Wanted a big school east of the Mississippi so didn’t apply any higher than that.

My boy with similar stats and strong ECs (no awards) is also headed to Michigan, which was his top choice. LSA with a STEM major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd has very good stats (top 5% and 1570 SAT). She does writing, art and also has decent research, presidential volunteer gold. She has good awards in writing and scholastic art awards. She will probably apply for a dual major (English and Stem). How do such kids fare in admissions at top 20 schools.

If aiming for engineering at a top school make sure she has at least BC Calc (preferably junior year with something more advanced senior year) and physics (preferably AP). People here are reacting to the fact that you articulated her humanities portfolio and didn't mention STEM-related stuff, so she may not seem to schools like a good fit for engineering (just based on what you wrote; of course you didn't write everything).

But engineering programs are requirement-heavy and requirements begin in the first semester (because courses build on each other). So she needs to apply to the engineering school and not the humanities program-- it's easy to transfer out of engineering and a pain to transfer in to engineering.

Also, I've heard from former AOs that they really don't consider the second major listed. They read your application through the lens of the major you list first. I'm not sure how that would work, though, given that a lot of universities have direct entry into engineering programs (so she'd need to apply to the engineering school), but based on your description here, her profile/awards don't really 'fit' engineering.

None of this is fatal, but if she's not doing something STEM-y this summer, it might be a good time to do that. (Better yet, something STEMy related to the arts-- like design something or other. That would give a great hook to somehow link the two together in applications so that AOs view the art part of her interest as an asset and something that makes sense.

Thank you, this is very helpful. She will be Physics C, Linear Algebra and third year of CS at her school in senior year in addition to AP Spanish, Advanced English courses. She will do Beaverworks program this summer. She is also interning at a startup this summer. But her STEM profile is not as strong. - op

If she’s in the top 5%, with this rigor and decent ECs, she should have no problem getting into a T20. There’s no need to have national awards unless you’re targeting HYPSM.

I didn’t read all of the reddit profiles shared above. But 2 of the 3 I clicked on were hooked. They’re irrelevant here.

The Penn legacy got into a bunch of other ivies. Clearly it was not the legacy that did it in those other schools. What was it?

What were the other hooks?

-The Penn legacy had lots of strong ECs, including a national level niche sport (also, undersubscribed major). She got into multiple Ivies and waitlisted by a couple, despite the slightly low GPA. As I pointed out above, the OP’s goal is “only” a T20, those ECs are unnecessary.

-The second and third ones are both First Gen URM, a GIGANTIC hook;

-Didn’t read the rest.

[Anonymous]

Just go for it. DC, English major, was accepted early to one of the HYP. Public HS. Essays were very good. As a rising senior, now is the time to begin reflecting and brainstorming.

I saw a lot of his friends get into T20s this year. Just normal, bright kids who were busy doing what they liked to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd has very good stats (top 5% and 1570 SAT). She does writing, art and also has decent research, presidential volunteer gold. She has good awards in writing and scholastic art awards. She will probably apply for a dual major (English and Stem). How do such kids fare in admissions at top 20 schools.

If aiming for engineering at a top school make sure she has at least BC Calc (preferably junior year with something more advanced senior year) and physics (preferably AP). People here are reacting to the fact that you articulated her humanities portfolio and didn't mention STEM-related stuff, so she may not seem to schools like a good fit for engineering (just based on what you wrote; of course you didn't write everything).

But engineering programs are requirement-heavy and requirements begin in the first semester (because courses build on each other). So she needs to apply to the engineering school and not the humanities program-- it's easy to transfer out of engineering and a pain to transfer in to engineering.

Also, I've heard from former AOs that they really don't consider the second major listed. They read your application through the lens of the major you list first. I'm not sure how that would work, though, given that a lot of universities have direct entry into engineering programs (so she'd need to apply to the engineering school), but based on your description here, her profile/awards don't really 'fit' engineering.

None of this is fatal, but if she's not doing something STEM-y this summer, it might be a good time to do that. (Better yet, something STEMy related to the arts-- like design something or other. That would give a great hook to somehow link the two together in applications so that AOs view the art part of her interest as an asset and something that makes sense.

Thank you, this is very helpful. She will be Physics C, Linear Algebra and third year of CS at her school in senior year in addition to AP Spanish, Advanced English courses. She will do Beaverworks program this summer. She is also interning at a startup this summer. But her STEM profile is not as strong. - op

If she’s in the top 5%, with this rigor and decent ECs, she should have no problem getting into a T20. There’s no need to have national awards unless you’re targeting HYPSM.

I didn’t read all of the reddit profiles shared above. But 2 of the 3 I clicked on were hooked. They’re irrelevant here.

The Penn legacy got into a bunch of other ivies. Clearly it was not the legacy that did it in those other schools. What was it?

What were the other hooks?

-The Penn legacy had lots of strong ECs, including a national level niche sport (also, undersubscribed major). She got into multiple Ivies and waitlisted by a couple, despite the slightly low GPA. As I pointed out above, the OP’s goal is “only” a T20, those ECs are unnecessary.

-The second and third ones are both First Gen URM, a GIGANTIC hook;

-Didn’t read the rest.

Huh? Do you not know how to read this standard Reddit format?

The 2nd one:
⁠Hooks (Recruited Athlete, URM, First-Gen, Geographic, Legacy, etc.): None

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd has very good stats (top 5% and 1570 SAT). She does writing, art and also has decent research, presidential volunteer gold. She has good awards in writing and scholastic art awards. She will probably apply for a dual major (English and Stem). How do such kids fare in admissions at top 20 schools.

If aiming for engineering at a top school make sure she has at least BC Calc (preferably junior year with something more advanced senior year) and physics (preferably AP). People here are reacting to the fact that you articulated her humanities portfolio and didn't mention STEM-related stuff, so she may not seem to schools like a good fit for engineering (just based on what you wrote; of course you didn't write everything).

But engineering programs are requirement-heavy and requirements begin in the first semester (because courses build on each other). So she needs to apply to the engineering school and not the humanities program-- it's easy to transfer out of engineering and a pain to transfer in to engineering.

Also, I've heard from former AOs that they really don't consider the second major listed. They read your application through the lens of the major you list first. I'm not sure how that would work, though, given that a lot of universities have direct entry into engineering programs (so she'd need to apply to the engineering school), but based on your description here, her profile/awards don't really 'fit' engineering.

None of this is fatal, but if she's not doing something STEM-y this summer, it might be a good time to do that. (Better yet, something STEMy related to the arts-- like design something or other. That would give a great hook to somehow link the two together in applications so that AOs view the art part of her interest as an asset and something that makes sense.

Thank you, this is very helpful. She will be Physics C, Linear Algebra and third year of CS at her school in senior year in addition to AP Spanish, Advanced English courses. She will do Beaverworks program this summer. She is also interning at a startup this summer. But her STEM profile is not as strong. - op

If she’s in the top 5%, with this rigor and decent ECs, she should have no problem getting into a T20. There’s no need to have national awards unless you’re targeting HYPSM.

I didn’t read all of the reddit profiles shared above. But 2 of the 3 I clicked on were hooked. They’re irrelevant here.

The Penn legacy got into a bunch of other ivies. Clearly it was not the legacy that did it in those other schools. What was it?

What were the other hooks?

-The Penn legacy had lots of strong ECs, including a national level niche sport (also, undersubscribed major). She got into multiple Ivies and waitlisted by a couple, despite the slightly low GPA. As I pointed out above, the OP’s goal is “only” a T20, those ECs are unnecessary.

-The second and third ones are both First Gen URM, a GIGANTIC hook;

-Didn’t read the rest.

The 3rd one is gay. That’s it. That’s not a hook.
Seriously your condescending attitude is not warranted.

And the OP wants a niche major too (English). So helpful imo.
I’d like to see more comps like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd has very good stats (top 5% and 1570 SAT). She does writing, art and also has decent research, presidential volunteer gold. She has good awards in writing and scholastic art awards. She will probably apply for a dual major (English and Stem). How do such kids fare in admissions at top 20 schools.

If aiming for engineering at a top school make sure she has at least BC Calc (preferably junior year with something more advanced senior year) and physics (preferably AP). People here are reacting to the fact that you articulated her humanities portfolio and didn't mention STEM-related stuff, so she may not seem to schools like a good fit for engineering (just based on what you wrote; of course you didn't write everything).

But engineering programs are requirement-heavy and requirements begin in the first semester (because courses build on each other). So she needs to apply to the engineering school and not the humanities program-- it's easy to transfer out of engineering and a pain to transfer in to engineering.

Also, I've heard from former AOs that they really don't consider the second major listed. They read your application through the lens of the major you list first. I'm not sure how that would work, though, given that a lot of universities have direct entry into engineering programs (so she'd need to apply to the engineering school), but based on your description here, her profile/awards don't really 'fit' engineering.

None of this is fatal, but if she's not doing something STEM-y this summer, it might be a good time to do that. (Better yet, something STEMy related to the arts-- like design something or other. That would give a great hook to somehow link the two together in applications so that AOs view the art part of her interest as an asset and something that makes sense.

Thank you, this is very helpful. She will be Physics C, Linear Algebra and third year of CS at her school in senior year in addition to AP Spanish, Advanced English courses. She will do Beaverworks program this summer. She is also interning at a startup this summer. But her STEM profile is not as strong. - op

If she’s in the top 5%, with this rigor and decent ECs, she should have no problem getting into a T20. There’s no need to have national awards unless you’re targeting HYPSM.

I didn’t read all of the reddit profiles shared above. But 2 of the 3 I clicked on were hooked. They’re irrelevant here.

The Penn legacy got into a bunch of other ivies. Clearly it was not the legacy that did it in those other schools. What was it?

What were the other hooks?

-The Penn legacy had lots of strong ECs, including a national level niche sport (also, undersubscribed major). She got into multiple Ivies and waitlisted by a couple, despite the slightly low GPA. As I pointed out above, the OP’s goal is “only” a T20, those ECs are unnecessary.

-The second and third ones are both First Gen URM, a GIGANTIC hook;

-Didn’t read the rest.

YOU ARE WRONG

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd has very good stats (top 5% and 1570 SAT). She does writing, art and also has decent research, presidential volunteer gold. She has good awards in writing and scholastic art awards. She will probably apply for a dual major (English and Stem). How do such kids fare in admissions at top 20 schools.

If aiming for engineering at a top school make sure she has at least BC Calc (preferably junior year with something more advanced senior year) and physics (preferably AP). People here are reacting to the fact that you articulated her humanities portfolio and didn't mention STEM-related stuff, so she may not seem to schools like a good fit for engineering (just based on what you wrote; of course you didn't write everything).

But engineering programs are requirement-heavy and requirements begin in the first semester (because courses build on each other). So she needs to apply to the engineering school and not the humanities program-- it's easy to transfer out of engineering and a pain to transfer in to engineering.

Also, I've heard from former AOs that they really don't consider the second major listed. They read your application through the lens of the major you list first. I'm not sure how that would work, though, given that a lot of universities have direct entry into engineering programs (so she'd need to apply to the engineering school), but based on your description here, her profile/awards don't really 'fit' engineering.

None of this is fatal, but if she's not doing something STEM-y this summer, it might be a good time to do that. (Better yet, something STEMy related to the arts-- like design something or other. That would give a great hook to somehow link the two together in applications so that AOs view the art part of her interest as an asset and something that makes sense.

Thank you, this is very helpful. She will be Physics C, Linear Algebra and third year of CS at her school in senior year in addition to AP Spanish, Advanced English courses. She will do Beaverworks program this summer. She is also interning at a startup this summer. But her STEM profile is not as strong. - op

If she’s in the top 5%, with this rigor and decent ECs, she should have no problem getting into a T20. There’s no need to have national awards unless you’re targeting HYPSM.

I didn’t read all of the reddit profiles shared above. But 2 of the 3 I clicked on were hooked. They’re irrelevant here.

The Penn legacy got into a bunch of other ivies. Clearly it was not the legacy that did it in those other schools. What was it?

What were the other hooks?

-The Penn legacy had lots of strong ECs, including a national level niche sport (also, undersubscribed major). She got into multiple Ivies and waitlisted by a couple, despite the slightly low GPA. As I pointed out above, the OP’s goal is “only” a T20, those ECs are unnecessary.

-The second and third ones are both First Gen URM, a GIGANTIC hook;

-Didn’t read the rest.

Huh? Do you not know how to read this standard Reddit format?

The 2nd one:
⁠Hooks (Recruited Athlete, URM, First-Gen, Geographic, Legacy, etc.): None

Apologies for misreading the posts. Perhaps this was telling me it’s time for me to leave this forum.

Best wishes everyone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consider applying as a prospective English major instead of as a double English-STEM

This is terrible advice. A double major English STEM is rare and gold!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just go for it. DC, English major, was accepted early to one of the HYP. Public HS. Essays were very good. As a rising senior, now is the time to begin reflecting and brainstorming.

I saw a lot of his friends get into T20s this year. Just normal, bright kids who were busy doing what they liked to do.

Congrats!! Did your child have national awards or programs?

[Anonymous]

You guys are missing that they said engineering is the other major. If it were Physics, it would be fine to apply in English and just take Physics classes. But in most universities, applying to Engineering is a whole different school and required courses begin freshman year. I think you need to list engineering as the first major (English is fine to list as second but they won't pay a lot of attention to it.). If you apply as English first, you'd need to do an internal trnasfer into engineering once at the university and that might mean doing 'catch up' for freshman level engineering courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing that they said engineering is the other major. If it were Physics, it would be fine to apply in English and just take Physics classes. But in most universities, applying to Engineering is a whole different school and required courses begin freshman year. I think you need to list engineering as the first major (English is fine to list as second but they won't pay a lot of attention to it.). If you apply as English first, you'd need to do an internal trnasfer into engineering once at the university and that might mean doing 'catch up' for freshman level engineering courses.

OP just said “STEM.” The engineering major was a class of 26 student reporting results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing that they said engineering is the other major. If it were Physics, it would be fine to apply in English and just take Physics classes. But in most universities, applying to Engineering is a whole different school and required courses begin freshman year. I think you need to list engineering as the first major (English is fine to list as second but they won't pay a lot of attention to it.). If you apply as English first, you'd need to do an internal trnasfer into engineering once at the university and that might mean doing 'catch up' for freshman level engineering courses.

OP just said “STEM.” The engineering major was a class of 26 student reporting results.

This is correct, she is not applying for engineering, it will probably be Physics and English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing that they said engineering is the other major. If it were Physics, it would be fine to apply in English and just take Physics classes. But in most universities, applying to Engineering is a whole different school and required courses begin freshman year. I think you need to list engineering as the first major (English is fine to list as second but they won't pay a lot of attention to it.). If you apply as English first, you'd need to do an internal trnasfer into engineering once at the university and that might mean doing 'catch up' for freshman level engineering courses.

OP just said “STEM.” The engineering major was a class of 26 student reporting results.

This is correct, she is not applying for engineering, it will probably be Physics and English.

Is there a specific area of Physics and a specific area of English?

Northwestern, Brown, Yale, and Amherst love kids like this. Does your kid want an open curriculum or not? Study your HS data to see which school might be most advantageous for you early.

At Brown, you pick 2 concentrations in the application (so Physics and English (or Literary Arts, Brown's separate creative writing concentration). Even better she could design an independent concentration like Physics and Narrative - to really stand out in the pool).

Yale typically needs some "standout" element in the app - something uncommon or high achievement. Not sure Scholastic meets that bar.
If they do, see how she might tie both subjects together (note you list 3 academic areas of interest in the Yale app),:
https://humanities.yale.edu/
https://frankeprogram.yale.edu/about-us

In terms of strengthening her profile:

Your DD should embody the combination of both subjects (rather than just saying she wants to study both).
Examples might include:
- a sustained science-writing project, like a Substack, column, or similar that translates real physics (ideally tied to actual research she's done or coursework) into a compelling narrative;
- a creative collection: essays, short fiction, or poetry built around physics concepts (like Alan Lightman's Einstein's Dreams, note: Lightman is literally a physicist-novelist, so if she doesn't know his work, she should);
or
- a teaching project where she uses storytelling to make physics intuitive for younger students, with real materials and real audiences.

She needs to start on something concrete now, though.

[Anonymous]

I have a well rounded similar kid. He wants to go to Penn. he is excellent in every way. However, he has no national or international awards. Not sure if he will ED to Penn.

Our well regarded public sends a few kids to ivies and if you are at the top 10%, which my son is, they get into T20 schools and UVA. Penn will be a reach but I think he will get in somewhere decent whether it is T10 or T30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing that they said engineering is the other major. If it were Physics, it would be fine to apply in English and just take Physics classes. But in most universities, applying to Engineering is a whole different school and required courses begin freshman year. I think you need to list engineering as the first major (English is fine to list as second but they won't pay a lot of attention to it.). If you apply as English first, you'd need to do an internal trnasfer into engineering once at the university and that might mean doing 'catch up' for freshman level engineering courses.

OP just said “STEM.” The engineering major was a class of 26 student reporting results.

This is correct, she is not applying for engineering, it will probably be Physics and English.

Is there a specific area of Physics and a specific area of English?

Northwestern, Brown, Yale, and Amherst love kids like this. Does your kid want an open curriculum or not? Study your HS data to see which school might be most advantageous for you early.

At Brown, you pick 2 concentrations in the application (so Physics and English (or Literary Arts, Brown's separate creative writing concentration). Even better she could design an independent concentration like Physics and Narrative - to really stand out in the pool).

Yale typically needs some "standout" element in the app - something uncommon or high achievement. Not sure Scholastic meets that bar.
If they do, see how she might tie both subjects together (note you list 3 academic areas of interest in the Yale app),:
https://humanities.yale.edu/
https://frankeprogram.yale.edu/about-us

In terms of strengthening her profile:

Your DD should embody the combination of both subjects (rather than just saying she wants to study both).
Examples might include:
- a sustained science-writing project, like a Substack, column, or similar that translates real physics (ideally tied to actual research she's done or coursework) into a compelling narrative;
- a creative collection: essays, short fiction, or poetry built around physics concepts (like Alan Lightman's Einstein's Dreams, note: Lightman is literally a physicist-novelist, so if she doesn't know his work, she should);
or
- a teaching project where she uses storytelling to make physics intuitive for younger students, with real materials and real audiences.

She needs to start on something concrete now, though.

I really appreciate you posting such a detailed response with stuff she can actually do, i will pass it on to my daughter. Thank you so much.