Which top colleges have a significant budget deficit? Which ones are red flags?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

I have appended the 2024 Forbes Financial Health Rankings next to the school. Most of these schools are very wealthy and will adjust tie spending if the nonsense form the administration continues. None of these schools are in long term danger though the experience at R1s will change if they have to start funding more of their own infrastructure costs. Of the 2 SLACs on this list Middlebury will have no issues at all, it is extremely wealthy and the main source of the budget drag has been addressed and the deficit is already down. Pitzer has a relatively small endowment and is tuition dependent. But with an under 25% acceptance rate they should not have any issues sourcing the students needed to keep budget intact and this is reflected in their Forbes grade. Penn State is not graded by Forbes since it is a public institution.

USC: $200 million A+
UChicago: $160 million A+
Stanford $140 million A+
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million A+
American U: $80 million B
GW: $76 million B+
NYU: $71 million B
Boston U: $30 million B
Middlebury: $14 million A+
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million A+
Brandeis: $2 million A-
Pitzer: $1.3 million A

I don’t think long-term health is the concern here.

For example, Middlebury had to cut benefits (including 401k contributions) for staff and wind down the Monterey institute (which undergrads had the opportunity to attend) to get their issues under control. That has a real impact on the experience even if the financial situation never spirals.

Here you go again.

Middlebury didn't have to do anything and didn't do anything that negatively affected student experience. They have been very open about the struggles of MIIS and are now winding it down. The cuts to benefits were insignificant though any cut is significant to those impacted.

Their debt load is smaller than that of Colby which is smaller and has a considerably smaller endowment (both total and per student) and it spends more money on student instruction than any of the NESCAC schools except Amherst, Bowdoin, and Williams.

The delusion is strong with this one.

There were protests about it, especially the benefit cuts. And the cuts aren’t done yet. They have a structural deficit that they are working to reduce. The school admits all of this and you are still in denial. Sad.

[Anonymous]

It does appear Midd has had financial defecits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

I have appended the 2024 Forbes Financial Health Rankings next to the school. Most of these schools are very wealthy and will adjust tie spending if the nonsense form the administration continues. None of these schools are in long term danger though the experience at R1s will change if they have to start funding more of their own infrastructure costs. Of the 2 SLACs on this list Middlebury will have no issues at all, it is extremely wealthy and the main source of the budget drag has been addressed and the deficit is already down. Pitzer has a relatively small endowment and is tuition dependent. But with an under 25% acceptance rate they should not have any issues sourcing the students needed to keep budget intact and this is reflected in their Forbes grade. Penn State is not graded by Forbes since it is a public institution.

USC: $200 million A+
UChicago: $160 million A+
Stanford $140 million A+
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million A+
American U: $80 million B
GW: $76 million B+
NYU: $71 million B
Boston U: $30 million B
Middlebury: $14 million A+
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million A+
Brandeis: $2 million A-
Pitzer: $1.3 million A

I don’t think long-term health is the concern here.

For example, Middlebury had to cut benefits (including 401k contributions) for staff and wind down the Monterey institute (which undergrads had the opportunity to attend) to get their issues under control. That has a real impact on the experience even if the financial situation never spirals.

Here you go again.

Middlebury didn't have to do anything and didn't do anything that negatively affected student experience. They have been very open about the struggles of MIIS and are now winding it down. The cuts to benefits were insignificant though any cut is significant to those impacted.

Their debt load is smaller than that of Colby which is smaller and has a considerably smaller endowment (both total and per student) and it spends more money on student instruction than any of the NESCAC schools except Amherst, Bowdoin, and Williams.

Nonetheless, by a quality defined as Faculty Resources, Middlebury placed after Wesleyan, Williams, Amherst, Colby, Trinity, Hamilton and Bowdoin in this analysis:

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/college-rankings/40750

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

I have appended the 2024 Forbes Financial Health Rankings next to the school. Most of these schools are very wealthy and will adjust tie spending if the nonsense form the administration continues. None of these schools are in long term danger though the experience at R1s will change if they have to start funding more of their own infrastructure costs. Of the 2 SLACs on this list Middlebury will have no issues at all, it is extremely wealthy and the main source of the budget drag has been addressed and the deficit is already down. Pitzer has a relatively small endowment and is tuition dependent. But with an under 25% acceptance rate they should not have any issues sourcing the students needed to keep budget intact and this is reflected in their Forbes grade. Penn State is not graded by Forbes since it is a public institution.

USC: $200 million A+
UChicago: $160 million A+
Stanford $140 million A+
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million A+
American U: $80 million B
GW: $76 million B+
NYU: $71 million B
Boston U: $30 million B
Middlebury: $14 million A+
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million A+
Brandeis: $2 million A-
Pitzer: $1.3 million A

I don’t think long-term health is the concern here.

For example, Middlebury had to cut benefits (including 401k contributions) for staff and wind down the Monterey institute (which undergrads had the opportunity to attend) to get their issues under control. That has a real impact on the experience even if the financial situation never spirals.

Here you go again.

Middlebury didn't have to do anything and didn't do anything that negatively affected student experience. They have been very open about the struggles of MIIS and are now winding it down. The cuts to benefits were insignificant though any cut is significant to those impacted.

Their debt load is smaller than that of Colby which is smaller and has a considerably smaller endowment (both total and per student) and it spends more money on student instruction than any of the NESCAC schools except Amherst, Bowdoin, and Williams.

Nonetheless, by a quality defined as Faculty Resources, Middlebury placed after Wesleyan, Williams, Amherst, Colby, Trinity, Hamilton and Bowdoin in this analysis:

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/college-rankings/40750

I wonder if WalletHub is including non-degree students (e.g., summer language school students) in the headcount, as USNews has started doing. This change had a big impact on Middlebury's USNews ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

It’s reported Chicago is $6 billion in debt

I don't have the time or energy to look it up but I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago has $6BN of debt outstanding between the university and the medical center. The headline figure might be scary and that could be on the high side but in isolation that number is absolutely meaningless. How much annual revenue do they have across those two? How much do they have in the endowment and other reserves? Comparing schools with academic medical centers baked into their financials with schools that don't is not apples to apples. Their finances are far from perfect but all of the alarmist posts are off base, and the numbers people are throwing out are pointless.

This is why you leave it to the professionals.

+1

Throwing random numbers, grades, and statements around on the internet without being properly informed and read is a bad idea. That goes for all schools.

$6 billion is not a random number ($6.4 billion to be exact). 60% of the endowment. https://provost.uchicago.edu/actions-budget?utm_source=chatgpt.com.
Their debt does include the medical center, but seems they have separate accounting for their budget, which is $128 million in deficit.

[Anonymous]

Stanford is in deep financial trouble and will go out of business any day now, don’t apply there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stanford is in deep financial trouble and will go out of business any day now, don’t apply there.

Stanford has a much bigger endowment than Chicago and is managing its debt better. It has a good rating. Chicago has much higher leverage, Columbia does also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stanford is in deep financial trouble and will go out of business any day now, don’t apply there.

Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT are also in deep financial trouble and all will go out of business any day now, don’t apply there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Budget deficit, which was OP’s original question, is much more important. Running a significant budget deficit means the university is not able to operate year-to-year within its means.

How does this work with donations? For example, let's say a university usually brings in $100mln in donations. Do they put that assumption into their budget, even if the donatinos are not pledges? If I were to think as a CPA (which I'm not), I would say they should not, since there's no guarantee they'll raise that kind of money. But operationally, it may be OK to assume that kind of money will come in.

In other words, are they assuming donations and they still have a budget deficit?

[Anonymous]

Many many parents are hurting as their kids didn’t get into their dream schools.. some are jealous and lash out .. it’s understandable.. Have empathy , folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

I have appended the 2024 Forbes Financial Health Rankings next to the school. Most of these schools are very wealthy and will adjust tie spending if the nonsense form the administration continues. None of these schools are in long term danger though the experience at R1s will change if they have to start funding more of their own infrastructure costs. Of the 2 SLACs on this list Middlebury will have no issues at all, it is extremely wealthy and the main source of the budget drag has been addressed and the deficit is already down. Pitzer has a relatively small endowment and is tuition dependent. But with an under 25% acceptance rate they should not have any issues sourcing the students needed to keep budget intact and this is reflected in their Forbes grade. Penn State is not graded by Forbes since it is a public institution.

USC: $200 million A+
UChicago: $160 million A+
Stanford $140 million A+
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million A+
American U: $80 million B
GW: $76 million B+
NYU: $71 million B
Boston U: $30 million B
Middlebury: $14 million A+
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million A+
Brandeis: $2 million A-
Pitzer: $1.3 million A

I don’t think long-term health is the concern here.

For example, Middlebury had to cut benefits (including 401k contributions) for staff and wind down the Monterey institute (which undergrads had the opportunity to attend) to get their issues under control. That has a real impact on the experience even if the financial situation never spirals.

Here you go again.

Middlebury didn't have to do anything and didn't do anything that negatively affected student experience. They have been very open about the struggles of MIIS and are now winding it down. The cuts to benefits were insignificant though any cut is significant to those impacted.

Their debt load is smaller than that of Colby which is smaller and has a considerably smaller endowment (both total and per student) and it spends more money on student instruction than any of the NESCAC schools except Amherst, Bowdoin, and Williams.

Nonetheless, by a quality defined as Faculty Resources, Middlebury placed after Wesleyan, Williams, Amherst, Colby, Trinity, Hamilton and Bowdoin in this analysis:

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/college-rankings/40750

I wonder if WalletHub is including non-degree students (e.g., summer language school students) in the headcount, as USNews has started doing. This change had a big impact on Middlebury's USNews ranking.

You're on the right track. They use the IPEDS 12 month number which includes the Summer programs and shows Middlebury as having about 4200 students. This has a big knock on effect in some of the calculations.

[Anonymous]

The financial ignorance demonstrated in this thread is frightening. There are numerous factors that go into a university's financial health. Yet the Einstein's around here zero in on one that feeds into their preferred narrative and obsess over it.

It is representative of the stupidity running America - people hear something on Fox News, take it at face value, and assume that the world is ending and Trump will save the day. Bless their hearts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It does appear Midd has had financial defecits.

It does, and it is also going to be fine. Look at the grades, not the deficit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does appear Midd has had financial defecits.

It does, and it is also going to be fine. Look at the grades, not the deficit.

Look at what they’re cutting and changing, not the propaganda from boosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're compiling a college list now with our junior. Some colleges we've come across and researched have significant budget deficits. We are trying to figure out which ones to worry about.

We know that a college budget deficit can be a significant red flag, particularly if the uni is a small, private, or regional college with a low endowment. And a structural, long-term deficit often leads to reduced academic quality, fewer student services, etc.

Here are the colleges with budget deficits that we are aware of (see below). Are we missing any others we should know about? Which ones to truly worry about (I'm assuming some big ones will figure it out with its endowment but not sure if that's smart thinking)?

Colleges with Budget Deficits (rough amounts reported from the past year):

USC: $200 million
UChicago: $160 million
Stanford $140 million
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million
American U: $80 million
GW: $76 million
NYU: $71 million
Boston U: $30 million
Middlebury: $14 million
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million
Brandeis: $2 million
Pitzer: $1.3 million

I have appended the 2024 Forbes Financial Health Rankings next to the school. Most of these schools are very wealthy and will adjust tie spending if the nonsense form the administration continues. None of these schools are in long term danger though the experience at R1s will change if they have to start funding more of their own infrastructure costs. Of the 2 SLACs on this list Middlebury will have no issues at all, it is extremely wealthy and the main source of the budget drag has been addressed and the deficit is already down. Pitzer has a relatively small endowment and is tuition dependent. But with an under 25% acceptance rate they should not have any issues sourcing the students needed to keep budget intact and this is reflected in their Forbes grade. Penn State is not graded by Forbes since it is a public institution.

USC: $200 million A+
UChicago: $160 million A+
Stanford $140 million A+
Penn State: $140 million
Harvard: $113 million A+
American U: $80 million B
GW: $76 million B+
NYU: $71 million B
Boston U: $30 million B
Middlebury: $14 million A+
WashU (St. Louis): $7 million A+
Brandeis: $2 million A-
Pitzer: $1.3 million A

I don’t think long-term health is the concern here.

For example, Middlebury had to cut benefits (including 401k contributions) for staff and wind down the Monterey institute (which undergrads had the opportunity to attend) to get their issues under control. That has a real impact on the experience even if the financial situation never spirals.

Here you go again.

Middlebury didn't have to do anything and didn't do anything that negatively affected student experience. They have been very open about the struggles of MIIS and are now winding it down. The cuts to benefits were insignificant though any cut is significant to those impacted.

Their debt load is smaller than that of Colby which is smaller and has a considerably smaller endowment (both total and per student) and it spends more money on student instruction than any of the NESCAC schools except Amherst, Bowdoin, and Williams.

The delusion is strong with this one.

There were protests about it, especially the benefit cuts. And the cuts aren’t done yet. They have a structural deficit that they are working to reduce. The school admits all of this and you are still in denial. Sad.

Delusional is what you are writing. Sad.

There was a tiny University Professors Union protest for an afternoon along with a small number of supportive students. People are always going to complain when they lose something and all Middlebury did was align their pension contributions to that of their peers. Middlebury does not have a structural deficit, they have has a small ongoing deficit mainly driven by MIIS which they are addressing. Borrowing at about 3.5% is a better long term strategy than raising their endowment draw. If they raised their draw to that of Colby they would actually have a surplus even with MIIS.