General advice for a hardworking, smart kid but without an academic passion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are his ECs? Favorite subjects?

EC: Top player on high school sports team & outside sport as well, volunteers with the special olympics and officer at the best buddies club at school. Works as a coach and referee. Favorite subjects are the social sciences (AP Gov, history classes). Favorite subjects tend to be very teacher-dependent. One year it might be math and another year it's history.

ECs are weak -- sports don't help much if not an athletic recruit. Try to get him a substantive summer experience, perhaps by volunteering in area of interest (i.e. working on a political campaign). Also needs some leadership. Is he a member of any clubs where he can run for a senior position or student government?

I’ve seen kids with these ECs and 3.7/3.8uw and 32/33 get into Wake / Tulane/ uMiami and SMU - using an ED option and listing humanities major.

Other than for engineering, which is its only direct admit major, Waks doesn’t consider major. As for all schools, Naviance/scoir is typically the best for school specific admission stats.

Most schools don’t consider major but they read your application with the major in mind. If all of the boys from your HS are Econ and you’re history, that might matter.

Esp with a weaker EC profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are his ECs? Favorite subjects?

EC: Top player on high school sports team & outside sport as well, volunteers with the special olympics and officer at the best buddies club at school. Works as a coach and referee. Favorite subjects are the social sciences (AP Gov, history classes). Favorite subjects tend to be very teacher-dependent. One year it might be math and another year it's history.

My kids sounds very similar, although he's not not very good at math. Special Olympics is one of his very favorite things. He's decided he wants to be an occupational therapist, although if he was better at math, I think he'd have chosen Physical Therapist.

He decided to apply to dual degree programs where he can continue on to the OTD, and complete both degrees in one year less. Those degrees tend to be offered at regional universities, so his list of acceptances isn't one that DCUM would love, but he's thrilled with here he got in, and excited to go. He plans to major in Psychology.

Where is he going? Psych is oversubscribed at top schools.

He hasn't decided yet, but has several good options. He's gotten in anywhere he applies. He will end up at a school that DCUM doesn't love, because those are the schools that have the combined degree program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look for the strongest academics/school you can get into with a well-rounded liberal arts education and the best student-teacher ratio, where professors teach more than half of their classes. Look for real engagement with professors and active advising.

May lead you to SLACs?

Where does he hope to live post-graduation?

Given his lack of an academic hook and strengths in math, consider statistics or even possibly even sociology?

Yes. Hope he gets into UVA or W&M, if not Wake is the best one from your list, OP. Wesleyan could work too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My junior is hardworking and smart, but doesn't have an academic passion yet. He has ruled out the hard sciences and engineering. He is good at math but doesn't think he wants to focus on it. Writing is more of a struggle but one he works at and has gotten better at. He is extremely social and when he takes career tests, they point him towards working with people such as coaching, teaching, or politics. He is also interested in business but not exactly sure what that means...

Academically, he'll apply to UVA and W&M but they're in our "low reach" category...other schools on the list are Villanova, Wake Forest, Pitt, Delaware...also considering playing his sport at a Division 3 school such as Franklin & Marshall or Wesleyan.

In general, what advice do BTDT parents have for a kid like this in the college search? Should we be drilling down on schools' general education requirements to make sure he'll get a broad range of classes before declaring a major (although I'd imagine all colleges have that)? Should we be digging into how strong freshman/sophomore year advising is (my older son went to Syracuse with a declared area of interest but I was not impressed with their freshman advising tbh). Are there schools that make more sense or less sense for a kid like this?

thanks.

go to a school that doesn't make you declare a major for 1st 2 years.

[Anonymous]

Does he generally enjoy academics (in which case the suggestion to explore for a year or two at a large LAC/small university before declaring a major makes sense), or does he think they're mostly BS and prefer action (in which case business programs make more sense)?

[Anonymous]

Pick an academic area of interest that threads well with his ECs, course rigor, teacher recommenders, AP scores. It’s great if the result is multidisciplinary.

He needs a story that creates cohesion in his application. Chances are you’ll discover his real interests along the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the great things about Pitt is their rolling admissions. If he applies in August, he should have an answer sometime in September or early October. It takes a lot of the pressure off to have a solid option in hand.

OP - yes this is our plan!

We can afford to be full pay anywhere but he's very practical and thinks he should definitely go to UVA or W&M if he gets in. I don't feel quite as strongly about that.

ED1UVA and ED2 W&M

OP here. See, I am worried UVA will not provide the teaching and advising my kid needs. The vibe I get there is kids should feel lucky to be there and they oughta figure it out for themselves...so I'd prefer he apply EA instead of ED to give him some time to consider other options, go to admitted students days, etc.

C'mon, OP, be serious. UVA has one of the highest first year retention rates and four year graduation rates in the country. It's up there with the Ivies and other top privates on these very important metrics. And it offers just about everything. If your kid gets in (which is unlikely) he'll get through it just fine. Almost every kid who goes there does.

[Anonymous]

He sounds perfect for Wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

It seems like his ECs veer towards coaching/teaching. Is it possible to double major in education & business?

Maybe not to become a teacher but to create an education-related business

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My junior is hardworking and smart, but doesn't have an academic passion yet. He has ruled out the hard sciences and engineering. He is good at math but doesn't think he wants to focus on it. Writing is more of a struggle but one he works at and has gotten better at. He is extremely social and when he takes career tests, they point him towards working with people such as coaching, teaching, or politics. He is also interested in business but not exactly sure what that means...

Academically, he'll apply to UVA and W&M but they're in our "low reach" category...other schools on the list are Villanova, Wake Forest, Pitt, Delaware...also considering playing his sport at a Division 3 school such as Franklin & Marshall or Wesleyan.

In general, what advice do BTDT parents have for a kid like this in the college search? Should we be drilling down on schools' general education requirements to make sure he'll get a broad range of classes before declaring a major (although I'd imagine all colleges have that)? Should we be digging into how strong freshman/sophomore year advising is (my older son went to Syracuse with a declared area of interest but I was not impressed with their freshman advising tbh). Are there schools that make more sense or less sense for a kid like this?

thanks.

Have him intern at a small business. Let him see what the day to day of running one is like. Find a school with good professional fraternities, or some similar constructive social outlets. Let him major in business, but make sure he reads books on networking, succeeding in college (e.g. how to win at college by Cal Newport), books on how to succeed as an employee/intern (promoted by Bozi Dar), etc.

Interns and consultants have a lot in common in that no one in the host business really knows what they're meant to do, they just need to get results/solutions that look good to management, so books on consulting can often benefit interns in non-consulting positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the great things about Pitt is their rolling admissions. If he applies in August, he should have an answer sometime in September or early October. It takes a lot of the pressure off to have a solid option in hand.

OP - yes this is our plan!

We can afford to be full pay anywhere but he's very practical and thinks he should definitely go to UVA or W&M if he gets in. I don't feel quite as strongly about that.

ED1UVA and ED2 W&M

OP here. See, I am worried UVA will not provide the teaching and advising my kid needs. The vibe I get there is kids should feel lucky to be there and they oughta figure it out for themselves...so I'd prefer he apply EA instead of ED to give him some time to consider other options, go to admitted students days, etc.

C'mon, OP, be serious. UVA has one of the highest first year retention rates and four year graduation rates in the country. It's up there with the Ivies and other top privates on these very important metrics. And it offers just about everything. If your kid gets in (which is unlikely) he'll get through it just fine. Almost every kid who goes there does.

I don't know why you would write this, PP. I have a kid at UVA who absolutely loves it there but I don't pretend he's having the same kind of high-touch experience that students at a SLAC do. He just doesn't. And while we are on the topic, most ivies aren't known for that either. And yes, in some ways, the structure at UVA is forcing him to mature and become more independent. But, in other ways, of course it is hurting him to have a lot more competition for on-campus jobs/internships/research, you name it. These would be extremely nice to have.

And that kid is my go-getter. I posted about my laid back HS junior, a kid who sounds very similar to OP's, last week and mentioned that I do not think UVA is the ideal place for him. Of course, if he is lucky enough to get in, he will commit immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the great things about Pitt is their rolling admissions. If he applies in August, he should have an answer sometime in September or early October. It takes a lot of the pressure off to have a solid option in hand.

OP - yes this is our plan!

We can afford to be full pay anywhere but he's very practical and thinks he should definitely go to UVA or W&M if he gets in. I don't feel quite as strongly about that.

ED1UVA and ED2 W&M

OP here. See, I am worried UVA will not provide the teaching and advising my kid needs. The vibe I get there is kids should feel lucky to be there and they oughta figure it out for themselves...so I'd prefer he apply EA instead of ED to give him some time to consider other options, go to admitted students days, etc.

C'mon, OP, be serious. UVA has one of the highest first year retention rates and four year graduation rates in the country. It's up there with the Ivies and other top privates on these very important metrics. And it offers just about everything. If your kid gets in (which is unlikely) he'll get through it just fine. Almost every kid who goes there does.

I don't know why you would write this, PP. I have a kid at UVA who absolutely loves it there but I don't pretend he's having the same kind of high-touch experience that students at a SLAC do. He just doesn't. And while we are on the topic, most ivies aren't known for that either. And yes, in some ways, the structure at UVA is forcing him to mature and become more independent. But, in other ways, of course it is hurting him to have a lot more competition for on-campus jobs/internships/research, you name it. These would be extremely nice to have.

And that kid is my go-getter. I posted about my laid back HS junior, a kid who sounds very similar to OP's, last week and mentioned that I do not think UVA is the ideal place for him. Of course, if he is lucky enough to get in, he will commit immediately.

And I don't know why you would write THAT. As a former professor of mine would say, you're answering a question I never asked. I never guaranteed the kid would have a "high touch" experience. She said he "needs" reaching and advising, as if neither is provided there and the kids flounder as a result. That is simply unsupported by the data and the outcomes.

I had two kids attend UVA. They both loved it. After the first year classes were very plenty small and when they needed advising they got it. I had another attend a top ranked SLAC -- picked over William & Mary because she thought it was too big -- and she loved it too and has no regrets but will admit it could be suffocating.

Sometimes a "high touch" experience can be too much of a good thing.

[Anonymous]

*teaching not reaching

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the great things about Pitt is their rolling admissions. If he applies in August, he should have an answer sometime in September or early October. It takes a lot of the pressure off to have a solid option in hand.

OP - yes this is our plan!

We can afford to be full pay anywhere but he's very practical and thinks he should definitely go to UVA or W&M if he gets in. I don't feel quite as strongly about that.

ED1UVA and ED2 W&M

OP here. See, I am worried UVA will not provide the teaching and advising my kid needs. The vibe I get there is kids should feel lucky to be there and they oughta figure it out for themselves...so I'd prefer he apply EA instead of ED to give him some time to consider other options, go to admitted students days, etc.

C'mon, OP, be serious. UVA has one of the highest first year retention rates and four year graduation rates in the country. It's up there with the Ivies and other top privates on these very important metrics. And it offers just about everything. If your kid gets in (which is unlikely) he'll get through it just fine. Almost every kid who goes there does.

I don't know why you would write this, PP. I have a kid at UVA who absolutely loves it there but I don't pretend he's having the same kind of high-touch experience that students at a SLAC do. He just doesn't. And while we are on the topic, most ivies aren't known for that either. And yes, in some ways, the structure at UVA is forcing him to mature and become more independent. But, in other ways, of course it is hurting him to have a lot more competition for on-campus jobs/internships/research, you name it. These would be extremely nice to have.

And that kid is my go-getter. I posted about my laid back HS junior, a kid who sounds very similar to OP's, last week and mentioned that I do not think UVA is the ideal place for him. Of course, if he is lucky enough to get in, he will commit immediately.

And I don't know why you would write THAT. As a former professor of mine would say, you're answering a question I never asked. I never guaranteed the kid would have a "high touch" experience. She said he "needs" reaching and advising, as if neither is provided there and the kids flounder as a result. That is simply unsupported by the data and the outcomes.

I had two kids attend UVA. They both loved it. After the first year classes were very plenty small and when they needed advising they got it. I had another attend a top ranked SLAC -- picked over William & Mary because she thought it was too big -- and she loved it too and has no regrets but will admit it could be suffocating.

Sometimes a "high touch" experience can be too much of a good thing.

UVA business is selective. It's very difficult to get in unless you're super pre-emptive with everything and on the ball with both academics, preparing for technical interviews, and networking.