Full pay made a difference in admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you or your child were or are full pay, did it make a difference in admissions outcome? How do you know?

OP, it’s an almost impossible question to answer.

If you’re asking because your kid will be applying in the near future, and you’re in that space where you cannot easily afford the tuition but could if you go into some real debt, do NOT say that you do not need aid. Ask for it, apply for it and be upfront. Do not try to game the system by saying you do not need aid in the hope that this will be an advantage for admissions for your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written this several times on here but a family member of mine is the Director of Financial Aid at a top10 school and says that "need blind" at their school is indeed 100% need blind. Their office is handed a list of accepted students and they match aid packages to the students.

Development cases (giving above the cost of attendance) is a different situation as is the admissions committee preferentially admitting from private schools or expensive zip codes.

I don't doubt what you said. But there are many ways to do it before this step. A kid who spent most time taking care of 5 sibling and working 2 part time jobs vs one practicing equestrianism, who will need financial aid? I don't think they need to specially mark out who need who don't need. But most school will balance the backgrounds of selected students. That's how they can guarantee enough full pay.

I’ll bet being full-pay matters a lot more for students from households with income over about $150,000 than under.

Everyone in the admissions office will respect the kid who gets great stats while taking care of five siblings and holding a part-time jobs. That will be at least a little bit of a hook at any T30 school.

But the admissions and aid people might not have much pity for ordinary good students, who had ordinary nice lives in moderately high-income homes, but who just have parents who weren’t great savers. The admissions people may figure those students will get good aid at JMU or UMBC and pick a full-pay student with similar stats.

Yes that is true. It's why you should always apply ED if the NPC works for your family.
RD is not your friend if you need aid because of "class shaping".

100% this.....run the NPC. Don't hope and pray for late March.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written this several times on here but a family member of mine is the Director of Financial Aid at a top10 school and says that "need blind" at their school is indeed 100% need blind. Their office is handed a list of accepted students and they match aid packages to the students.

Development cases (giving above the cost of attendance) is a different situation as is the admissions committee preferentially admitting from private schools or expensive zip codes.

How do you reconcile this with what Lee Coffin says about Dartmouth's AO review process, labelling an application as "NN" = no need? It's just so AO are aware?
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/admissions-beat-s8e9-transcript

Or with this? Which apparently shows the B = budget positive (wish there was some evidence for this)?
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1315307.page

I do think not needing need, plus 2 other institutional priorities (legacy + undersubscribed major), can be a bump.

Wow, so AOs are need aware even at need blind schools? Dartmouth is no need blind then?

Emory is the only T25 private officially no longer need blind.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some schools have said they are need aware. Full pay should benefit

This. Why else would they be need aware?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you or your child were or are full pay, did it make a difference in admissions outcome? How do you know?

OP, it’s an almost impossible question to answer.

If you’re asking because your kid will be applying in the near future, and you’re in that space where you cannot easily afford the tuition but could if you go into some real debt, do NOT say that you do not need aid. Ask for it, apply for it and be upfront. Do not try to game the system by saying you do not need aid in the hope that this will be an advantage for admissions for your kid.

This because if you don't apply year 1, you can't circle back and say "oops, never mind I need aid." This is especially true at need aware institutions where the pot of aid is finite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written this several times on here but a family member of mine is the Director of Financial Aid at a top10 school and says that "need blind" at their school is indeed 100% need blind. Their office is handed a list of accepted students and they match aid packages to the students.

Development cases (giving above the cost of attendance) is a different situation as is the admissions committee preferentially admitting from private schools or expensive zip codes.

How do you reconcile this with what Lee Coffin says about Dartmouth's AO review process, labelling an application as "NN" = no need? It's just so AO are aware?
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/admissions-beat-s8e9-transcript

Or with this? Which apparently shows the B = budget positive (wish there was some evidence for this)?
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1315307.page

I do think not needing need, plus 2 other institutional priorities (legacy + undersubscribed major), can be a bump.

I wonder if B means something else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written this several times on here but a family member of mine is the Director of Financial Aid at a top10 school and says that "need blind" at their school is indeed 100% need blind. Their office is handed a list of accepted students and they match aid packages to the students.

Development cases (giving above the cost of attendance) is a different situation as is the admissions committee preferentially admitting from private schools or expensive zip codes.

How do you reconcile this with what Lee Coffin says about Dartmouth's AO review process, labelling an application as "NN" = no need? It's just so AO are aware?
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/admissions-beat-s8e9-transcript

Or with this? Which apparently shows the B = budget positive (wish there was some evidence for this)?
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1315307.page

I do think not needing need, plus 2 other institutional priorities (legacy + undersubscribed major), can be a bump.

Wow, so AOs are need aware even at need blind schools? Dartmouth is no need blind then?

Emory is the only T25 private officially no longer need blind.....

Washu and CMU

[Anonymous]

At most of our schools I don’t think it mattered. I will say I think it mattered at one - University of Richmond. No proof of course, but it’s VERY expensive and I have a hunch they go hunting for families who can afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even need blind schools that need full need and are blind in choosing applicants.. are NOT need blind in forming the CLASS.

That’s the fine print.

incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even need blind schools that need full need and are blind in choosing applicants.. are NOT need blind in forming the CLASS.

That’s the fine print.

incorrect.

Wrong. Listen to podcasts. Have you heard of class shaping?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but you can't buy your way in just by being full pay.

And you are wrong. Many schools were significantly harmed by Covid and are in financial arrears. My own college went $30M in the hole. Forbes reports that one small college a week is closing. Being full pay is definitely an advantage at these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but you can't buy your way in just by being full pay.

And you are wrong. Many schools were significantly harmed by Covid and are in financial arrears. My own college went $30M in the hole. Forbes reports that one small college a week is closing. Being full pay is definitely an advantage at these schools.

It's not "buying your way in." It's actually paying the cost of the service being provided, as opposed to being a freeloader.

[Anonymous]

No, my kid was admitted to all the schools she applied to and received merit aid at nearly all OOS schools.

Because of her major, she only applied to state schools, mostly state flagships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have written this several times on here but a family member of mine is the Director of Financial Aid at a top10 school and says that "need blind" at their school is indeed 100% need blind. Their office is handed a list of accepted students and they match aid packages to the students.

Development cases (giving above the cost of attendance) is a different situation as is the admissions committee preferentially admitting from private schools or expensive zip codes.

How do you reconcile this with what Lee Coffin says about Dartmouth's AO review process, labelling an application as "NN" = no need? It's just so AO are aware?
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/admissions-beat-s8e9-transcript

Or with this? Which apparently shows the B = budget positive (wish there was some evidence for this)?
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1315307.page

I do think not needing need, plus 2 other institutional priorities (legacy + undersubscribed major), can be a bump.

Wow, so AOs are need aware even at need blind schools? Dartmouth is no need blind then?

Emory is the only T25 private officially no longer need blind.....

I am surprised that Georgetown is not…

[Anonymous]

It 100% makes a difference. When you leave the box unchecked on the common app that says you don't need financial assistance, you go in a different bucket. Obviously it makes a difference.