MCPS Graduation Rate Drops to 88.7% for 2024-2025 School Year; Down from 91.85% Previous Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop passing kids who don’t show mastery of foundational skills. Those students almost always have low attendance rates too.

STFU stupid supremacist MAGA

Obviously a troll, but can you explain why you think this?

When schools offered wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. many kids mostly boys) had some life skills to fall back on if they dropped out. I don’t know why public schools fail to offer alternative paths for kids who aren’t academically inclined or motivated.

MCPS tends to centralize those programs, which does not mean they don't exist. There are plenty of kids doing half days at Thomas Edison and finishing HS with AA degrees in health sciences or child development, or partially through an apprenticeship in HVAC or carpentry.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/career-readiness/plans/hs-plans/

That’s great, but the trades haven’t been pushed as strongly as college. If a kid isn’t “college material “ because of grades (which may be due to other factors) MCPS doesn’t do a great job in pushing the trades as an alternative. Oftentimes, such kids fall through the cracks and stop attending school (while being kept on the books for funding purposes).

Also, centralized trade programs mean that they’re out of sight, out of mind. Unless peers or teachers notice and suggest that path (see above), at risk kids won’t notice those trade programs.

Honest question - do you have an MCPS high schooler? Because I do and hear about these programs all the time even as a parent whose kid is on a different path. You are basically saying that counselors don't tell kids about these programs, but do you have any experience behind that?

The decision to centralize programs allows MCPS to offer a more robust suite of programs. Instead of a kid being able to take maybe 2 years of shop at a regular high school (as was the case at my HS), they can earn and entire certification and be employable straight out of HS. That is objectively better for kids on a trades path.

Yes I do. Two kids in fact. And yes, counselors haven’t pushed trade school over college over the last couple of generations of kids. Today, the interest in the trades is actually coming from kids - but some counselors are still stuck in the past, particularly where their school administrators or central office still want a high college attendance rate after graduation. I’ve heard this first hand from one counselor.

Also, many MCPS high schools are very short on counselors, so they can’t adopt the required personal approach for individual kids. MCPS could use more counselors instead of administrators and consultants.

There's starting to be a focus on getting students college or CAREER ready. I just put the career in caps just to emphasize in the shift, not trying to shout or anything.

For example in Maryland Blueprint, the goal is to have 45 percent of students industry certified:
https://www.gwdb.maryland.gov/policy/gwdb2024blueprintgoalpolicyoverview.pdf

So you will likely see school systems shift there focus more towards CTE programs than before.

I've said it before in other posts, while I do somewhat see the value in this in getting students able to get a job after high school, I have issues with this as well. Where it basically makes students limited in their growth potential. With a good foundation and developed critical thinking skills of pursuing rigorous and wellrounded coursework, not only would students have the aptitude to learn and perform trades but they would eventually be able to pursue higher level pathways too. This is coming from someone who didn't initially understand the point and cost of college. So explored the trade school route for a little bit. Then realizing how stupid I was when seeing other people in the profession with no other option, while my option was to go back to college and have an easier and better life.

Ironically just a day or two ago they reaired the second to last episode of the George Lopez show, which showed the factory workers scared that they were losing their jobs and they had limited options. So it was important to the father that the son pursued his education. It was the same thing with the Cosby show in trying to stress the importance of education. Say what you will about Bill Cosy and George Lopez but both of their sitcoms tried to stress the importance of education.

I think we both agree that education is important, it’s just the form that education takes may differ. At my company, we have plenty of former enlisted military members. They went into the military because of the cost of college, to learn a trade/skill, and get the GI Bill if they wanted to go to college. Some went to college, while others used the company benefit to go. The military gave them the skills they needed to be successful. College was just to get past the hiring screener.

Yeah I agree.

My issue is that by having students career ready where they can earn a decent paying job out of high school, kind of gives them an easy way out.

And it takes a very motivated person to continue their education or career growth.

I see it a lot with people that work immediately out of college or even go to community colleges. Very few are able to keep the motivation to continue the advancement and usually just end up getting comfortable and settling. The motivated people are usually the exceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just gets better and better...

Did Covid affect these numbers? It often takes years to see the effects of educational interruption.

My guess is that covid inflated the numbers to start with and made it easier to pass and graduate. Now we're seeing the correction.

It may have also contributed to gaps in learning that made continuing education seem more challenging.

[Anonymous]

Mcps staff member here who used to assist kids getting into Edison. Back in the day, bad attendance was an rule out for them---which eliminates a sizable amount of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mcps staff member here who used to assist kids getting into Edison. Back in the day, bad attendance was an rule out for them---which eliminates a sizable amount of kids.

This doesn't surprise me at all. My guess is that attendance is even more important for "trade" programs than the traditional diploma track. If attendance is the issue, putting them into Edison and signing them up for a trade program. is not going to be some magic bullet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:70% of all professions have some sort of licensing exam. If kids are far behind academically they cannot pass these exams. Trades are typically very technical now. The days of dropping out of school and working in a factory or the trades is a thing of the past. We don’t have any technical schools in Montgomery Co that I can’t think of other than the programs at Edison High school.

If we are being honest, kids don’t really want to work hard outdoors or in factories these days. The want to sit and play on their phone. Can’t blame them. There is a lot of hopelessness out their among the middle class and lower middles class.

This is true. Doing well in trades requires perseverance and hard work and being smart - a high barrier for many kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mcps staff member here who used to assist kids getting into Edison. Back in the day, bad attendance was an rule out for them---which eliminates a sizable amount of kids.

I wonder if attendance still counts given that MCPS doesn’t seem to care about attendance anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And here are the grad rates by school:

LEA Name##School Name##Grad Rate
Montgomery##Poolesville High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Thomas S. Wootton High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Northwest High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Winston Churchill High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Walt Whitman High##94.94
Montgomery##Bethesda-Chevy Chase High##94.09
Montgomery##Sherwood High##93.75
Montgomery##Clarksburg High##93.57
Montgomery##Walter Johnson High##93.57
Montgomery##Damascus High##93.1
Montgomery##Richard Montgomery High##90.61
Montgomery##Col. Zadok Magruder High##90.33
Montgomery##Quince Orchard High##90.31
Montgomery##James Hubert Blake High##88.69
Montgomery##Rockville High##88.36
Montgomery##Seneca Valley High##86.84
Montgomery##Springbrook High##86.18
Montgomery##Paint Branch High##85.8
Montgomery##Montgomery Blair High##85.45
Montgomery##Albert Einstein High##85.25
Montgomery##Northwood High##85.11
Montgomery##Wheaton High##83.22
Montgomery##Watkins Mill High##82.53
Montgomery##Gaithersburg High##78.64
Montgomery##John F. Kennedy High##72.96
Montgomery##John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol##58.33
Montgomery##Stephen Knolls School##*
Montgomery##Rock Terrace School##*
Montgomery##Longview School##*


All MCPS:
Schools##88.77

The last several are special schools. So if those are excluded and assuming the schools with >=95 grad rates have close to 100 percent, the grad rate would be about 89.5

But other school systems have special schools too and I assume these special schools have always been included in the grad rate calculations?

Now do a side by side comparison of FARMS rates.

FARMS rate, Attendance Percent and Multi Lingual percentages are added and the columns are delimited by -- (double dashes):

School Name--Grad Rate--Attendance Pct--FARMS Pct--Multilingual Learner Pct
Poolesville High-->= 95.00--93--12.8--<= 5.0
Thomas S. Wootton High-->= 95.00--92.8--15.4--<= 5.0
Northwest High-->= 95.00--90.9--37.9--10.3
Winston Churchill High-->= 95.00--94.3--11.9--<= 5.0
Walt Whitman High--94.94--93.2--7.8--<= 5.0
Bethesda-Chevy Chase High--94.09--91.7--26--11.2
Sherwood High--93.75--92.1--23.8--<= 5.0
Clarksburg High--93.57--91.1--38.6--10.4
Walter Johnson High--93.57--92.3--21.1--8
Damascus High--93.1--89.8--32.9--7.5
Richard Montgomery High--90.61--91.9--31.3--13.5
Col. Zadok Magruder High--90.33--89--51--20
Quince Orchard High--90.31--89.2--40.5--17.2
James Hubert Blake High--88.69--88.6--57--19.7
Rockville High--88.36--89.5--50.5--19.4
Seneca Valley High--86.84--90.7--54.1--15.3
Springbrook High--86.18--89.4--64.9--27.6
Paint Branch High--85.8--92.1--54.7--12.9
Montgomery Blair High--85.45--90--47.6--20.4
Albert Einstein High--85.25--87.8--47--21.8
Northwood High--85.11--86.4--64.1--29.4
Wheaton High--83.22--88.9--60.7--26.2
Watkins Mill High--82.53--87.6--54.3--32.8
Gaithersburg High--78.64--84.9--62.1--32.4
John F. Kennedy High--72.96--85.8--60.5--37.2
John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol--58.33--86.5--58.8--*
Stephen Knolls School--*--70.7--32.3--*
Rock Terrace School--*--87.2--65.2--*
Longview School--*--76--*--50

All Montgomery Schools--88.77--93.8--44--25.9

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mcps staff member here who used to assist kids getting into Edison. Back in the day, bad attendance was an rule out for them---which eliminates a sizable amount of kids.

This doesn't surprise me at all. My guess is that attendance is even more important for "trade" programs than the traditional diploma track. If attendance is the issue, putting them into Edison and signing them up for a trade program. is not going to be some magic bullet.

Some trade programs actually have a mandated amount of training hours. If a student is absent they have to make up the hours somehow. For exampleAviation mechanic training has this requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of all professions have some sort of licensing exam. If kids are far behind academically they cannot pass these exams. Trades are typically very technical now. The days of dropping out of school and working in a factory or the trades is a thing of the past. We don’t have any technical schools in Montgomery Co that I can’t think of other than the programs at Edison High school.

If we are being honest, kids don’t really want to work hard outdoors or in factories these days. The want to sit and play on their phone. Can’t blame them. There is a lot of hopelessness out their among the middle class and lower middles class.

This is true. Doing well in trades requires perseverance and hard work and being smart - a high barrier for many kids

Success in life takes perseverance and drive. Nobody hands anything to you unless your family is rich - and even the. That’s no guarantee (eg Buffett’s kids).

You either have it in high school or life teaches it to you after. Dropping out won’t let you avoid this lesson. In fact, it often accelerates your race to the bottom. At that point, and without help or a role model, that’s where you stay.

Parents are critically important to kids graduating. Schools can’t do it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop passing kids who don’t show mastery of foundational skills. Those students almost always have low attendance rates too.

STFU stupid supremacist MAGA

Obviously a troll, but can you explain why you think this?

When schools offered wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. many kids mostly boys) had some life skills to fall back on if they dropped out. I don’t know why public schools fail to offer alternative paths for kids who aren’t academically inclined or motivated.

MCPS tends to centralize those programs, which does not mean they don't exist. There are plenty of kids doing half days at Thomas Edison and finishing HS with AA degrees in health sciences or child development, or partially through an apprenticeship in HVAC or carpentry.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/career-readiness/plans/hs-plans/

That’s great, but the trades haven’t been pushed as strongly as college. If a kid isn’t “college material “ because of grades (which may be due to other factors) MCPS doesn’t do a great job in pushing the trades as an alternative. Oftentimes, such kids fall through the cracks and stop attending school (while being kept on the books for funding purposes).

Also, centralized trade programs mean that they’re out of sight, out of mind. Unless peers or teachers notice and suggest that path (see above), at risk kids won’t notice those trade programs.

Honest question - do you have an MCPS high schooler? Because I do and hear about these programs all the time even as a parent whose kid is on a different path. You are basically saying that counselors don't tell kids about these programs, but do you have any experience behind that?

The decision to centralize programs allows MCPS to offer a more robust suite of programs. Instead of a kid being able to take maybe 2 years of shop at a regular high school (as was the case at my HS), they can earn and entire certification and be employable straight out of HS. That is objectively better for kids on a trades path.

Yes I do. Two kids in fact. And yes, counselors haven’t pushed trade school over college over the last couple of generations of kids. Today, the interest in the trades is actually coming from kids - but some counselors are still stuck in the past, particularly where their school administrators or central office still want a high college attendance rate after graduation. I’ve heard this first hand from one counselor.

Also, many MCPS high schools are very short on counselors, so they can’t adopt the required personal approach for individual kids. MCPS could use more counselors instead of administrators and consultants.

There's starting to be a focus on getting students college or CAREER ready. I just put the career in caps just to emphasize in the shift, not trying to shout or anything.

For example in Maryland Blueprint, the goal is to have 45 percent of students industry certified:
https://www.gwdb.maryland.gov/policy/gwdb2024blueprintgoalpolicyoverview.pdf

So you will likely see school systems shift there focus more towards CTE programs than before.

I've said it before in other posts, while I do somewhat see the value in this in getting students able to get a job after high school, I have issues with this as well. Where it basically makes students limited in their growth potential. With a good foundation and developed critical thinking skills of pursuing rigorous and wellrounded coursework, not only would students have the aptitude to learn and perform trades but they would eventually be able to pursue higher level pathways too. This is coming from someone who didn't initially understand the point and cost of college. So explored the trade school route for a little bit. Then realizing how stupid I was when seeing other people in the profession with no other option, while my option was to go back to college and have an easier and better life.

Ironically just a day or two ago they reaired the second to last episode of the George Lopez show, which showed the factory workers scared that they were losing their jobs and they had limited options. So it was important to the father that the son pursued his education. It was the same thing with the Cosby show in trying to stress the importance of education. Say what you will about Bill Cosy and George Lopez but both of their sitcoms tried to stress the importance of education.

I think we both agree that education is important, it’s just the form that education takes may differ. At my company, we have plenty of former enlisted military members. They went into the military because of the cost of college, to learn a trade/skill, and get the GI Bill if they wanted to go to college. Some went to college, while others used the company benefit to go. The military gave them the skills they needed to be successful. College was just to get past the hiring screener.

Being enlisted is not an easy lifestyle. And, the career field active duty does not always translate into a civilian job which is why so many struggle when they get out or retire. You make it sound easy but clearly you're family has never been enlisted.

[Anonymous]

My two cents from a title 1 school with high FARMs and high EML. Curriculum is suppressed and not covered to accommodate slow pace, lack of English proficiency, behavioral issues. All non EML kids are held down in order to keep up with the general slow pace. For example, while teacher explains or translates into Spanish the assignment, some kids who are done already are on Chromebooks, or just sit and wait. Science is regularly omitted in order to catch up Math. It is all done so "nobody is left behind" but then these rates show everybody is held back. Why not segregate EML learners and have them in English proficiency classes 1-2 years and then start them in kindergarten, etc. They will be older, but will be better prepared to absorb the material. Title I, if you read all available research is a total failure. It does not produce the outcome it is designed to do. EML and FARMS = Title I = lower graduation rates. The bigger irony is also that CKLA, designed especially to lift lower-income students up, is misused, butchered, or not used at all, in order for MCPS to put the word equity everywhere. The rot at MCPS is only going to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop passing kids who don’t show mastery of foundational skills. Those students almost always have low attendance rates too.

STFU stupid supremacist MAGA

Obviously a troll, but can you explain why you think this?

When schools offered wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. many kids mostly boys) had some life skills to fall back on if they dropped out. I don’t know why public schools fail to offer alternative paths for kids who aren’t academically inclined or motivated.

MCPS tends to centralize those programs, which does not mean they don't exist. There are plenty of kids doing half days at Thomas Edison and finishing HS with AA degrees in health sciences or child development, or partially through an apprenticeship in HVAC or carpentry.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/career-readiness/plans/hs-plans/

That’s great, but the trades haven’t been pushed as strongly as college. If a kid isn’t “college material “ because of grades (which may be due to other factors) MCPS doesn’t do a great job in pushing the trades as an alternative. Oftentimes, such kids fall through the cracks and stop attending school (while being kept on the books for funding purposes).

Also, centralized trade programs mean that they’re out of sight, out of mind. Unless peers or teachers notice and suggest that path (see above), at risk kids won’t notice those trade programs.

Honest question - do you have an MCPS high schooler? Because I do and hear about these programs all the time even as a parent whose kid is on a different path. You are basically saying that counselors don't tell kids about these programs, but do you have any experience behind that?

The decision to centralize programs allows MCPS to offer a more robust suite of programs. Instead of a kid being able to take maybe 2 years of shop at a regular high school (as was the case at my HS), they can earn and entire certification and be employable straight out of HS. That is objectively better for kids on a trades path.

Yes I do. Two kids in fact. And yes, counselors haven’t pushed trade school over college over the last couple of generations of kids. Today, the interest in the trades is actually coming from kids - but some counselors are still stuck in the past, particularly where their school administrators or central office still want a high college attendance rate after graduation. I’ve heard this first hand from one counselor.

Also, many MCPS high schools are very short on counselors, so they can’t adopt the required personal approach for individual kids. MCPS could use more counselors instead of administrators and consultants.

There's starting to be a focus on getting students college or CAREER ready. I just put the career in caps just to emphasize in the shift, not trying to shout or anything.

For example in Maryland Blueprint, the goal is to have 45 percent of students industry certified:
https://www.gwdb.maryland.gov/policy/gwdb2024blueprintgoalpolicyoverview.pdf

So you will likely see school systems shift there focus more towards CTE programs than before.

I've said it before in other posts, while I do somewhat see the value in this in getting students able to get a job after high school, I have issues with this as well. Where it basically makes students limited in their growth potential. With a good foundation and developed critical thinking skills of pursuing rigorous and wellrounded coursework, not only would students have the aptitude to learn and perform trades but they would eventually be able to pursue higher level pathways too. This is coming from someone who didn't initially understand the point and cost of college. So explored the trade school route for a little bit. Then realizing how stupid I was when seeing other people in the profession with no other option, while my option was to go back to college and have an easier and better life.

Ironically just a day or two ago they reaired the second to last episode of the George Lopez show, which showed the factory workers scared that they were losing their jobs and they had limited options. So it was important to the father that the son pursued his education. It was the same thing with the Cosby show in trying to stress the importance of education. Say what you will about Bill Cosy and George Lopez but both of their sitcoms tried to stress the importance of education.

I think we both agree that education is important, it’s just the form that education takes may differ. At my company, we have plenty of former enlisted military members. They went into the military because of the cost of college, to learn a trade/skill, and get the GI Bill if they wanted to go to college. Some went to college, while others used the company benefit to go. The military gave them the skills they needed to be successful. College was just to get past the hiring screener.

Being enlisted is not an easy lifestyle. And, the career field active duty does not always translate into a civilian job which is why so many struggle when they get out or retire. You make it sound easy but clearly you're family has never been enlisted.

Actually, I am VERY familiar with enlisted service. Unfortunately, many kids and their parents believe the half truths that recruiters tell them. Everyone has heard a, “but my recruiter told me this” story. Most recruiters are not bad, but they have quotas to meet, and that pressure can lead to bending the truth or outright lying.

[Anonymous]

Equity in action

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just gets better and better...

Didn't it say % of Hispanic students not graduating because of icee efforts? They make up a large part of MCPS.

Yes, correct. They and homeless students have the largest drops
Four-year MCPS graduation rate decreases to less than 89% https://share.google/7Sryc05fDIvUGgJjE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And here are the grad rates by school:

LEA Name##School Name##Grad Rate
Montgomery##Poolesville High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Thomas S. Wootton High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Northwest High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Winston Churchill High##>= 95.00
Montgomery##Walt Whitman High##94.94
Montgomery##Bethesda-Chevy Chase High##94.09
Montgomery##Sherwood High##93.75
Montgomery##Clarksburg High##93.57
Montgomery##Walter Johnson High##93.57
Montgomery##Damascus High##93.1
Montgomery##Richard Montgomery High##90.61
Montgomery##Col. Zadok Magruder High##90.33
Montgomery##Quince Orchard High##90.31
Montgomery##James Hubert Blake High##88.69
Montgomery##Rockville High##88.36
Montgomery##Seneca Valley High##86.84
Montgomery##Springbrook High##86.18
Montgomery##Paint Branch High##85.8
Montgomery##Montgomery Blair High##85.45
Montgomery##Albert Einstein High##85.25
Montgomery##Northwood High##85.11
Montgomery##Wheaton High##83.22
Montgomery##Watkins Mill High##82.53
Montgomery##Gaithersburg High##78.64
Montgomery##John F. Kennedy High##72.96
Montgomery##John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol##58.33
Montgomery##Stephen Knolls School##*
Montgomery##Rock Terrace School##*
Montgomery##Longview School##*


All MCPS:
Schools##88.77

The last several are special schools. So if those are excluded and assuming the schools with >=95 grad rates have close to 100 percent, the grad rate would be about 89.5

But other school systems have special schools too and I assume these special schools have always been included in the grad rate calculations?

Now do a side by side comparison of FARMS rates.

FARMS rate, Attendance Percent and Multi Lingual percentages are added and the columns are delimited by -- (double dashes):

School Name--Grad Rate--Attendance Pct--FARMS Pct--Multilingual Learner Pct
Poolesville High-->= 95.00--93--12.8--<= 5.0
Thomas S. Wootton High-->= 95.00--92.8--15.4--<= 5.0
Northwest High-->= 95.00--90.9--37.9--10.3
Winston Churchill High-->= 95.00--94.3--11.9--<= 5.0
Walt Whitman High--94.94--93.2--7.8--<= 5.0
Bethesda-Chevy Chase High--94.09--91.7--26--11.2
Sherwood High--93.75--92.1--23.8--<= 5.0
Clarksburg High--93.57--91.1--38.6--10.4
Walter Johnson High--93.57--92.3--21.1--8
Damascus High--93.1--89.8--32.9--7.5
Richard Montgomery High--90.61--91.9--31.3--13.5
Col. Zadok Magruder High--90.33--89--51--20
Quince Orchard High--90.31--89.2--40.5--17.2
James Hubert Blake High--88.69--88.6--57--19.7
Rockville High--88.36--89.5--50.5--19.4
Seneca Valley High--86.84--90.7--54.1--15.3
Springbrook High--86.18--89.4--64.9--27.6
Paint Branch High--85.8--92.1--54.7--12.9
Montgomery Blair High--85.45--90--47.6--20.4
Albert Einstein High--85.25--87.8--47--21.8
Northwood High--85.11--86.4--64.1--29.4
Wheaton High--83.22--88.9--60.7--26.2
Watkins Mill High--82.53--87.6--54.3--32.8
Gaithersburg High--78.64--84.9--62.1--32.4
John F. Kennedy High--72.96--85.8--60.5--37.2
John L Gildner Regional Inst for Children & Adol--58.33--86.5--58.8--*
Stephen Knolls School--*--70.7--32.3--*
Rock Terrace School--*--87.2--65.2--*
Longview School--*--76--*--50

All Montgomery Schools--88.77--93.8--44--25.9

At what point do we consider MCPS guilty of malfeasance and mismanagement when it comes to John F. Kennedy High School? When graduation rates fall under 50%? What's the threshold for a school to be put into receivership by the state?