Packer and Village Community School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Packer has debt rated by Moody's so has to publicly disclose a lot of information, which is quite interesting. Data is school wide so it is hard to parse out what grades they are referring to, but overall they reject a lot more kids than they accept, then have a pretty strong yield on those who are accepted.

well, for k/1st admissions they work with preschool directors to sort the kids. it's unusual for kids from grace preschool, say, to get multiple accepts. the preschool director communicates with poly, packer, bfs, st Ann's. it helps with yield. and placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know there’s a lot of Manhattan students at Packer in the upper school. VCS is very underwhelming from things I’ve heard.

What are the underwhelming things you have heard about VCS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that there isn't the equivalent of a really good suburban public high school. Options for HS are:

1) SHSAT schools which are pressure cookers, big classes, lots of FGLI kids who study 24/7. Generally big schools (except HSMSE which is too small).
2) Top Gen Ed public schools. Not many of them. Big classes. Need a top lottery number to get something like ElRo. Most of them have at least one major gap. Worried about your life being at the whim of the unpredictable DOE.
3) TT schools. Pressure cookers. If you are not off the chart smart or connected you will just be some person struggling to pay tuition and they might not go to bat for you for TT colleges.
4) Next tier privates. Top kids get into top schools but often they are hooked. More meh kids mixed in so have to block out the noise. Still a huge expense.

For elementary and middle the public options can be better so often worth saving your money, though locking in the private earlier cuts down on stress in 8th grade. But if money is or could be an issue, saving all those years of private could be a game changer.

Not sure what the answer is.

Brooklyn Heights-er back. I think the option I was thinking of was pubic for k-5 (or k-8) and then move to private. I literally don't know a single person who wanted Packer who didn't get Packer. Not hooked, unless you consider full pay a hook. But let's say, I raised kids through some weird times - covid, etc. Spots opened up. Okay, but there's Grace or similar T2 schools. Not sure if this is the #4 choice on your list and it's certainly expensive but a lot less than private for k-12 which is what the OP is considering. You won't get a better education than 234, I really think that. My kids did k-5 at PS8 and I was never even a tiny bit envious of the work the kids at Packer were doing - and my kids had plenty of friends in all the local privates. But the convenience of the kids moving from school to the playgroundor to a friends house - or being able to text a friend to see if they/their nanny could help pick up a kid etc. It's just a blessing in those years.

I would LOVE to do 234 but my kid is a fall birthday and we wont be in public past fifth grade...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would LOVE to do 234 but my kid is a fall birthday and we wont be in public past fifth grade...

We were in that situation at one point and a couple of schools offered to have our son repeat fifth, which we strongly considered - it's a big adjustment and having that extra year to get acquainted with your age cohort means that you're starting off middle school in really strong shape. (of course the school has to have room in fifth - or be excited enough about having you in sixth to make room - but that's not unheard of)

[Anonymous]

(the main reason we didn't end up doing it was that we hadn't prepared him for that possibility and he felt like repeating a grade was weird/bad, but if I'd started him off in kindergarten explaining that that was the situation I suspect he would have been fine with it)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know there’s a lot of Manhattan students at Packer in the upper school. VCS is very underwhelming from things I’ve heard.

I don’t know what you know or think you’ve heard about VCS but if your idea of underwhelming is 9 years of an inviting, supportive community where my son has made fantastic, socially-grounded friends, won DISC championships in his sport, skipped happily to school on most days and, oh, yeah, got accepted to every TT high school he applied to, then underwhelm me all day long please….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good points, but I wouldn't necessarily rank good suburban schools quite that high - the mean SAT at Staples High School in Westport e.g. is 1260, which is like 40 points lower than LaGuardia's and 100 points lower than ElRo's. (most of their matriculation lists are pretty bleak too)

LaGuardia incidentally is an interesting option missing from that list - it's not a pressure cooker, but it's certainly academically equivalent to a good suburban school, and if your kid already has some aptitude in music or singing or acting or dance, pursuing that more seriously in middle school and working with an audition coach could easily get them to LaGuardia level. We know a bunch of kids who went that route and had a marvelous experience.

SHSATs I wouldn't say are all pressure cookers - Stuy certainly is, but Bronx Science less so and Brooklyn Latin/Tech less still. You're not wrong about Gen Ed, but if your kid is a strong writer they might be able to overcome a bad lottery number with a good essay - we know kids who've managed that.

You don't look at averages when looking at suburban publics. You look at volume. Really good suburban publics are getting a bunch of kids into top schools. By nature they have to handle whoever walks in the door so there will also be a cohort of much weaker kids. But usually they have good tracking so can accelerate top kids while also supporting less academic kids. Of course, there are some suburban publics which are pressure cookers - some schools I wouldn't send my kid to.

Bronx Sci is definitely more sane than Stuy but still huge, remote and a pressure cooker. Brooklyn Tech is gigantic so not for everyone. Brooklyn Latin was freaky and it has a very odd curriculum - works for some but not others - we were a hard pass (my kid far exceeded the threshold).

Not many essay schools I would consider. And the rubric for that is odd - I wouldn't rest my hopes on it. Though I do agree that it broadens the potential options as there are some that are OK.

We went through the process last year and this is spot on. For a non-spec ed kid the non-SHSAT options were not amazing unless you had fabulous luck with the lottery number (we did not), the kid was artsy (there are a number of performing arts schools besides LaGuardia), or you happened to randomly crack the code for Beacon, Bard, or NEST. As far as I could tell from who got into those essay schools, it wasn't much tied to a kid's writing abilities (plus the essays were written at home, so, yeah). My kid wound up at one of the "big 3" SHSATs and while very happy there, I can tell it's going to be a doozy for college admissions. Anyway, I certainly think private is worth the $ for high school, and maybe for middle school, just to avoid the 8th grade scramble. Elementary, not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good points, but I wouldn't necessarily rank good suburban schools quite that high - the mean SAT at Staples High School in Westport e.g. is 1260, which is like 40 points lower than LaGuardia's and 100 points lower than ElRo's. (most of their matriculation lists are pretty bleak too)

LaGuardia incidentally is an interesting option missing from that list - it's not a pressure cooker, but it's certainly academically equivalent to a good suburban school, and if your kid already has some aptitude in music or singing or acting or dance, pursuing that more seriously in middle school and working with an audition coach could easily get them to LaGuardia level. We know a bunch of kids who went that route and had a marvelous experience.

SHSATs I wouldn't say are all pressure cookers - Stuy certainly is, but Bronx Science less so and Brooklyn Latin/Tech less still. You're not wrong about Gen Ed, but if your kid is a strong writer they might be able to overcome a bad lottery number with a good essay - we know kids who've managed that.

You don't look at averages when looking at suburban publics. You look at volume. Really good suburban publics are getting a bunch of kids into top schools. By nature they have to handle whoever walks in the door so there will also be a cohort of much weaker kids. But usually they have good tracking so can accelerate top kids while also supporting less academic kids. Of course, there are some suburban publics which are pressure cookers - some schools I wouldn't send my kid to.

Bronx Sci is definitely more sane than Stuy but still huge, remote and a pressure cooker. Brooklyn Tech is gigantic so not for everyone. Brooklyn Latin was freaky and it has a very odd curriculum - works for some but not others - we were a hard pass (my kid far exceeded the threshold).

Not many essay schools I would consider. And the rubric for that is odd - I wouldn't rest my hopes on it. Though I do agree that it broadens the potential options as there are some that are OK.

We went through the process last year and this is spot on. For a non-spec ed kid the non-SHSAT options were not amazing unless you had fabulous luck with the lottery number (we did not), the kid was artsy (there are a number of performing arts schools besides LaGuardia), or you happened to randomly crack the code for Beacon, Bard, or NEST. As far as I could tell from who got into those essay schools, it wasn't much tied to a kid's writing abilities (plus the essays were written at home, so, yeah). My kid wound up at one of the "big 3" SHSATs and while very happy there, I can tell it's going to be a doozy for college admissions. Anyway, I certainly think private is worth the $ for high school, and maybe for middle school, just to avoid the 8th grade scramble. Elementary, not so much.

What do you mean by doozy for college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good points, but I wouldn't necessarily rank good suburban schools quite that high - the mean SAT at Staples High School in Westport e.g. is 1260, which is like 40 points lower than LaGuardia's and 100 points lower than ElRo's. (most of their matriculation lists are pretty bleak too)

LaGuardia incidentally is an interesting option missing from that list - it's not a pressure cooker, but it's certainly academically equivalent to a good suburban school, and if your kid already has some aptitude in music or singing or acting or dance, pursuing that more seriously in middle school and working with an audition coach could easily get them to LaGuardia level. We know a bunch of kids who went that route and had a marvelous experience.

SHSATs I wouldn't say are all pressure cookers - Stuy certainly is, but Bronx Science less so and Brooklyn Latin/Tech less still. You're not wrong about Gen Ed, but if your kid is a strong writer they might be able to overcome a bad lottery number with a good essay - we know kids who've managed that.

You don't look at averages when looking at suburban publics. You look at volume. Really good suburban publics are getting a bunch of kids into top schools. By nature they have to handle whoever walks in the door so there will also be a cohort of much weaker kids. But usually they have good tracking so can accelerate top kids while also supporting less academic kids. Of course, there are some suburban publics which are pressure cookers - some schools I wouldn't send my kid to.

Bronx Sci is definitely more sane than Stuy but still huge, remote and a pressure cooker. Brooklyn Tech is gigantic so not for everyone. Brooklyn Latin was freaky and it has a very odd curriculum - works for some but not others - we were a hard pass (my kid far exceeded the threshold).

Not many essay schools I would consider. And the rubric for that is odd - I wouldn't rest my hopes on it. Though I do agree that it broadens the potential options as there are some that are OK.

We went through the process last year and this is spot on. For a non-spec ed kid the non-SHSAT options were not amazing unless you had fabulous luck with the lottery number (we did not), the kid was artsy (there are a number of performing arts schools besides LaGuardia), or you happened to randomly crack the code for Beacon, Bard, or NEST. As far as I could tell from who got into those essay schools, it wasn't much tied to a kid's writing abilities (plus the essays were written at home, so, yeah). My kid wound up at one of the "big 3" SHSATs and while very happy there, I can tell it's going to be a doozy for college admissions. Anyway, I certainly think private is worth the $ for high school, and maybe for middle school, just to avoid the 8th grade scramble. Elementary, not so much.

Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

We've generally heard good things about Beacon - they had an awful interim principal for a year or so and I have heard the new one is much better, but it still has its limitations - as much as regents are a pain, the other method they have (blanking on the name) is not appropriate for some subjects and kids find it very frustrating - a friend's child was actually begging to just have to take tests rather than do another pointless project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good points, but I wouldn't necessarily rank good suburban schools quite that high - the mean SAT at Staples High School in Westport e.g. is 1260, which is like 40 points lower than LaGuardia's and 100 points lower than ElRo's. (most of their matriculation lists are pretty bleak too)

LaGuardia incidentally is an interesting option missing from that list - it's not a pressure cooker, but it's certainly academically equivalent to a good suburban school, and if your kid already has some aptitude in music or singing or acting or dance, pursuing that more seriously in middle school and working with an audition coach could easily get them to LaGuardia level. We know a bunch of kids who went that route and had a marvelous experience.

SHSATs I wouldn't say are all pressure cookers - Stuy certainly is, but Bronx Science less so and Brooklyn Latin/Tech less still. You're not wrong about Gen Ed, but if your kid is a strong writer they might be able to overcome a bad lottery number with a good essay - we know kids who've managed that.

You don't look at averages when looking at suburban publics. You look at volume. Really good suburban publics are getting a bunch of kids into top schools. By nature they have to handle whoever walks in the door so there will also be a cohort of much weaker kids. But usually they have good tracking so can accelerate top kids while also supporting less academic kids. Of course, there are some suburban publics which are pressure cookers - some schools I wouldn't send my kid to.

Bronx Sci is definitely more sane than Stuy but still huge, remote and a pressure cooker. Brooklyn Tech is gigantic so not for everyone. Brooklyn Latin was freaky and it has a very odd curriculum - works for some but not others - we were a hard pass (my kid far exceeded the threshold).

Not many essay schools I would consider. And the rubric for that is odd - I wouldn't rest my hopes on it. Though I do agree that it broadens the potential options as there are some that are OK.

We went through the process last year and this is spot on. For a non-spec ed kid the non-SHSAT options were not amazing unless you had fabulous luck with the lottery number (we did not), the kid was artsy (there are a number of performing arts schools besides LaGuardia), or you happened to randomly crack the code for Beacon, Bard, or NEST. As far as I could tell from who got into those essay schools, it wasn't much tied to a kid's writing abilities (plus the essays were written at home, so, yeah). My kid wound up at one of the "big 3" SHSATs and while very happy there, I can tell it's going to be a doozy for college admissions. Anyway, I certainly think private is worth the $ for high school, and maybe for middle school, just to avoid the 8th grade scramble. Elementary, not so much.

Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

We've generally heard good things about Beacon - they had an awful interim principal for a year or so and I have heard the new one is much better, but it still has its limitations - as much as regents are a pain, the other method they have (blanking on the name) is not appropriate for some subjects and kids find it very frustrating - a friend's child was actually begging to just have to take tests rather than do another pointless project.

Agree with all this. I desperately wanted NEST despite being turned off by their pretentious, obviously-cherry-picking essay prompt ("what will you contribute"...really?); the rigorous-but-not-too-much-rigor curriculum and the small-but-not-ridiculously-small size seemed ideal. Beacon would have been an amazing commute for my DC (one subway stop!), though I've also heard mixed reports from parents (seems to be a school people LOVE or HATE).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

Bard has a level of connection to Jeffrey Epstein that would make even Dalton blush, so until they clean house I would stay far away from them.

Personally, I have a 7th grader and a 5th grader; I feel pretty good about the 7th grader's choices since they'd have a strong chance at 4 out of 6 LaGuardia studios along with the SHSAT schools, but if the 5th grader has a bad lottery number and screws up their SHSAT, I'm going to be on the fence whether to send them to a lower-tier private school (they're extremely bright but lack the polish to get into a TT/2T as a high schooler) or do a split-household thing with the older kid in the city and the younger kid in the suburbs for two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

Bard has a level of connection to Jeffrey Epstein that would make even Dalton blush, so until they clean house I would stay far away from them.

Personally, I have a 7th grader and a 5th grader; I feel pretty good about the 7th grader's choices since they'd have a strong chance at 4 out of 6 LaGuardia studios along with the SHSAT schools, but if the 5th grader has a bad lottery number and screws up their SHSAT, I'm going to be on the fence whether to send them to a lower-tier private school (they're extremely bright but lack the polish to get into a TT/2T as a high schooler) or do a split-household thing with the older kid in the city and the younger kid in the suburbs for two years.

Bard is weird. I found the curriculum and everything else just weird. My kid couldn't leave the tour fast enough.

You're very lucky to have an artsy kid. LaGuardia is huge and there's also Sinatra in Queens, which people seem to love. As for your 5th grader, if you're in D2 try for Clinton; then you have a perfectly acceptable fallback for high school. And NEST of course, if you happen to have insane lottery luck.

Re the 2T vs suburbs, do the math. A friend of mine in this position (older kid had a good public HS spot; younger was a poor test taker) discovered it was significantly cheaper to pay for private than move, given the taxes, cost of a second car, furnishing a house, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

My older child is super academic. Second child is smart but not nearly as book smart. Older child aced the SHSATs but wanted smaller and we are fortunate to be able to pay for private so did so. We chose a slightly less competitive school so a) they could stand out, b) less stress, and c) younger sibling might have a chance of getting in and succeeding. We are working hard to be on good terms with the administration because younger child might not have the grades and scores to get in but hopefully since they know us as a family they will give the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

Bard has a level of connection to Jeffrey Epstein that would make even Dalton blush, so until they clean house I would stay far away from them.

Personally, I have a 7th grader and a 5th grader; I feel pretty good about the 7th grader's choices since they'd have a strong chance at 4 out of 6 LaGuardia studios along with the SHSAT schools, but if the 5th grader has a bad lottery number and screws up their SHSAT, I'm going to be on the fence whether to send them to a lower-tier private school (they're extremely bright but lack the polish to get into a TT/2T as a high schooler) or do a split-household thing with the older kid in the city and the younger kid in the suburbs for two years.

Bard is weird. I found the curriculum and everything else just weird. My kid couldn't leave the tour fast enough.

You're very lucky to have an artsy kid. LaGuardia is huge and there's also Sinatra in Queens, which people seem to love. As for your 5th grader, if you're in D2 try for Clinton; then you have a perfectly acceptable fallback for high school. And NEST of course, if you happen to have insane lottery luck.

Re the 2T vs suburbs, do the math. A friend of mine in this position (older kid had a good public HS spot; younger was a poor test taker) discovered it was significantly cheaper to pay for private than move, given the taxes, cost of a second car, furnishing a house, etc etc.

Thanks. Sadly 5th grader's lottery number was not in range for Clinton, let alone NEST. We know people at Sinatra but we're not sure if the academics are strong enough.

As far as math, it's honestly close enough that I'm more worried about fit than about cost - at a lower-tier private I worry there'll be too many rich kids who don't work hard, we would need to find one that had high academic standards but low enough prestige that they still had a chance of getting in. Also needs to have good STEM.

Anonymous wrote:My older child is super academic. Second child is smart but not nearly as book smart. Older child aced the SHSATs but wanted smaller and we are fortunate to be able to pay for private so did so. We chose a slightly less competitive school so a) they could stand out, b) less stress, and c) younger sibling might have a chance of getting in and succeeding. We are working hard to be on good terms with the administration because younger child might not have the grades and scores to get in but hopefully since they know us as a family they will give the benefit of the doubt.

One of my cousins is actually doing this exact same thing, sticking it out at a less competitive school with a very academic older sibling in the hopes of getting the younger one in. Hopefully it works out in both cases

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with all of this. And even the essay schools have their pros and cons. We loved NEST but it is remote (not the end of the world). Bard is great for artsy humanities kids - a kid who would excel at a traditional private school probably wouldn't be happy there so it isn't a binary choice (though there are obviously less traditional private schools).

Bard has a level of connection to Jeffrey Epstein that would make even Dalton blush, so until they clean house I would stay far away from them.

Personally, I have a 7th grader and a 5th grader; I feel pretty good about the 7th grader's choices since they'd have a strong chance at 4 out of 6 LaGuardia studios along with the SHSAT schools, but if the 5th grader has a bad lottery number and screws up their SHSAT, I'm going to be on the fence whether to send them to a lower-tier private school (they're extremely bright but lack the polish to get into a TT/2T as a high schooler) or do a split-household thing with the older kid in the city and the younger kid in the suburbs for two years.

Bard is weird. I found the curriculum and everything else just weird. My kid couldn't leave the tour fast enough.

You're very lucky to have an artsy kid. LaGuardia is huge and there's also Sinatra in Queens, which people seem to love. As for your 5th grader, if you're in D2 try for Clinton; then you have a perfectly acceptable fallback for high school. And NEST of course, if you happen to have insane lottery luck.

Re the 2T vs suburbs, do the math. A friend of mine in this position (older kid had a good public HS spot; younger was a poor test taker) discovered it was significantly cheaper to pay for private than move, given the taxes, cost of a second car, furnishing a house, etc etc.

Thanks. Sadly 5th grader's lottery number was not in range for Clinton, let alone NEST. We know people at Sinatra but we're not sure if the academics are strong enough.

As far as math, it's honestly close enough that I'm more worried about fit than about cost - at a lower-tier private I worry there'll be too many rich kids who don't work hard, we would need to find one that had high academic standards but low enough prestige that they still had a chance of getting in. Also needs to have good STEM.

Anonymous wrote:My older child is super academic. Second child is smart but not nearly as book smart. Older child aced the SHSATs but wanted smaller and we are fortunate to be able to pay for private so did so. We chose a slightly less competitive school so a) they could stand out, b) less stress, and c) younger sibling might have a chance of getting in and succeeding. We are working hard to be on good terms with the administration because younger child might not have the grades and scores to get in but hopefully since they know us as a family they will give the benefit of the doubt.

One of my cousins is actually doing this exact same thing, sticking it out at a less competitive school with a very academic older sibling in the hopes of getting the younger one in. Hopefully it works out in both cases

Might really benefit your older kid to be the star student at a 2T.