Indulge my fantasy - top private vs. Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so confused. Why haven’t you asked your daughter what SHE wants?… Instead of random strangers on the internet. If she has a good head on her shoulders, she will have her own aspirations and desires that are outside other people’s opinions. You say that YOU are exhausted but is your daughter exhausted with DCPS? Also why are you spending so much time thinking about this? She may not even have a choice and then you’re wasted everyone’s time on this.

I’m sure at the end of the day the daughter would prefer the $200k+ you would throw away on Sidwell to use as a downpayment on a house or law school tuition … not sure why you will start this phase of her life off with a terrible financial choice.

Some of us are fortunate enough to be able to do all three…

[Anonymous]

Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

Your local public is not Walls, which undermines the relevance of your post. Also, you underestimate the number of children who have these choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

Your local public is not Walls, which undermines the relevance of your post. Also, you underestimate the number of children who have these choices.

(1). Our local public is, in my view, superior to Walls. Regardless, we engaged in the analysis for TJHSST where our child was accepted and also turned down for these reasons and everyone knows that’s “better” than Walls.

(2). Classes at GDS and Sidwell are about 120 in US. They accept about 30 +/- for 9th entry. Half of those (yes yes approximately) go to girls. Hence explain what’s the matter with my math?

(3). I thought my post was pretty helpful? Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

I went to a big three and have sent my kids through MCPS and this is spot on except maybe for the college outcome piece. The part about feedback on writing is particularly accurate. After seeing the public HS experience thru my first kid, I would have sent the second two to a top private if we could afford it. And the transition to college has been so much harder than mine was. And I have smart kids.

[Anonymous]

We have a Walls/GWEP grad and a child who is currently attending one of the Big 3. (You will have good and bad teachers anywhere.) Pros and cons to both but every child deserves the education and attention provided by the Big 3 schools. If given the opportunity and your child wants it, take the spot at the big 3.

[Anonymous]

I know a handful of private elementary/middle who left for Walls and loved it. Also... what exactly was bad at your DCPS? What middle school are you at and how is she handling it there? It's been a cakewalk and a pleasure working with DCPS for the most part. My daughter is very busy outside of school and does academics outside of school. I just don't think we are "tolerating DCPS". The financial worries you have... make sure your advisor supports it in terms of your own retirement and funding college etc. It's your money, but you know what REALLY hurts a kid... parent stress, parent guilt applied, and losing things like discretionary spending and vacations.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that independent school acceptances come out and ask for a financial commitment before Walls acceptances come out. Unless you are waitlisted, you need to be ready to decide on an offer before you know about Walls.

Your kid has already had a public school experience, which has value in understanding the larger world. It’s Ok to change.

Let your kid have input. This is a long time ago, but I surprised myself when, after years of complaining about public school, I chose to stay after being accepted to the independent school I was sure I wanted.

If you really want independent options, look at more schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a Walls/GWEP grad and a child who is currently attending one of the Big 3. (You will have good and bad teachers anywhere.) Pros and cons to both but every child deserves the education and attention provided by the Big 3 schools. If given the opportunity and your child wants it, take the spot at the big 3.

That is not possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

Your local public is not Walls, which undermines the relevance of your post. Also, you underestimate the number of children who have these choices.

(1). Our local public is, in my view, superior to Walls. Regardless, we engaged in the analysis for TJHSST where our child was accepted and also turned down for these reasons and everyone knows that’s “better” than Walls.

(2). Classes at GDS and Sidwell are about 120 in US. They accept about 30 +/- for 9th entry. Half of those (yes yes approximately) go to girls. Hence explain what’s the matter with my math?

(3). I thought my post was pretty helpful? Geez.

I think you don’t realize how many addition duties private school teachers have that eat up their time. Yes, they have smaller classes and so should be able to give students more feedback—but often they are busy with other duties that public school teachers do not have and also are often less qualified and paid far less.

The real difference between public and private is the peer group anyway, unless you are talking about a school like TJ or Stuyvesant in NYC.

Also, I would expect my child to learn to edit their own writing and not have their writing feedback be merely “edits.” Sounds like you should have sent your kid to TJ.

[Anonymous]

In a different city. Applying to excellent private HS and a top rated arts/music magnet. Audition at magnet went very well and has been invited to a callback. DC likes the privates but loves the magnet. Parents really don't want him to go to the magnet but one of the privates. Arts at the magnet is top notch, but academics aren't amazing, nothing like what the privates can offer. And also worry about intensity of the arts focus and think DC will get burnt out after a year or two.

Gearing up for a battle come February and when decisions come in and if DS gets into one of the top privates. Amazing how worried I am over this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your chances of having this choice are very very low. There are, surprise to no one, more than say 15 really smart gritty go getter girls from the entire DMV looking into Sid and GDS for 9th. So this fantasy is, as you recognize, a real fantasy.

That being said, we chose a Big 3 over our very excellent punching above its weight college admissions public for the reasons outlined by others but to put a finer point on it.

First, the writing, editing, and analytical development. I think there are equally good teachers at the good public schools. But, they have exponentially more students. A private school English teacher can assign a three page paper and then edit it and provide those edits back. That iterative process can continue. That is simply not possible with the numbers of students a public school teacher has to deal with. (3 page paper, times 50 kids at best, etc.). Also, say 25 kids on a class; your child will by definition have fewer opportunities to engage in meaningful academic back and forth guided by a teacher.

Also, we liked the lack of grade inflation. We felt that our child deserved meaningful feedback on their performance. We wanted our child to have some grade challenged in high school when we were there to my guide them. That is much more likely to happen at a private school.

We also see that the classes are harder. They just are. People can pretend that they aren’t but my kid does way more homework than his peers at our local public. I understand this cuts both ways — 3 hours of homework on some nights freshman year is not actually beneficial to my kid.

Finally, and again this will be like throwing gasoline on a fire, we came to the conclusion that college outcomes are better. Which made sense to us for the reasons outlined above.

Your local public is not Walls, which undermines the relevance of your post. Also, you underestimate the number of children who have these choices.

(1). Our local public is, in my view, superior to Walls. Regardless, we engaged in the analysis for TJHSST where our child was accepted and also turned down for these reasons and everyone knows that’s “better” than Walls.

(2). Classes at GDS and Sidwell are about 120 in US. They accept about 30 +/- for 9th entry. Half of those (yes yes approximately) go to girls. Hence explain what’s the matter with my math?

(3). I thought my post was pretty helpful? Geez.

I think you don’t realize how many addition duties private school teachers have that eat up their time. Yes, they have smaller classes and so should be able to give students more feedback—but often they are busy with other duties that public school teachers do not have and also are often less qualified and paid far less.

The real difference between public and private is the peer group anyway, unless you are talking about a school like TJ or Stuyvesant in NYC.

Also, I would expect my child to learn to edit their own writing and not have their writing feedback be merely “edits.” Sounds like you should have sent your kid to TJ.

Totally agree with you re: private school teachers … generally. Think you probably don’t understand or have a sense of what the Big3 offers private school teachers however so I don’t agree with you there. The reality is not that they are by definition better; I think it’s pretty equivalent. But good teachers and way less students does not mean meaningfully more feedback. I’ve experienced it firsthand.

I write for a living and learned to write by having a really good writer edit me. That worked for me and I believe works best for most people students including my children. If I wanted TJ and mass testing culture, I would have chosen it.

Lastly, I am not paying for a different peer group. We left a rich highly educated public school peer group that, yes, could
afford private school but chose for all kinds of reasons to send their kids to our very good public. Our families remain friends and their children will go to excellent colleges I expect. I sent my children for the reasons above. I think you don’t know the very affluent public school neighborhood schools close in to DC like you don’t understand the dynamics at a Big 3. Sounds like you aren’t really a DC person which is fine because much of what you say I think is true for many privates in many markets buy doesn’t apply to the Walls/Big3 analysis we are all talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Play along with my total fantasy scenario here: let's imagine my 8th grade DD gets into Sidwell or GDS and also Walls. I think she'd be happy at any of them. She's tough as nails, entirely self-motivated, deeply curious, very smart. Has been happy and successful in DCPS. I, however, am exhausted by DCPS - the nonstop advocacy, feeling like parents have to hold it all up bc it's so chaotic and funding always in jeopardy, issues with staffing and facilities, always wondering if we will lose a teacher or a section, not get a sub, get subjected to a crappy online curriculum. Walls may be protected from some of that, but it's still DCPS. We *can* afford private but we make too much to qualify for aid ($400k) so it will be a stretch. We will have to cut other things like vacations. We won't be doing all the tutoring and extra fancy stuff other kids do like get college essay consultants and marketing people to help develop a podcast or whatever latest thing is the "hook" to get "unhooked" kids into college. Sigh. So, in this totally fantasy scenario...what would you do? She will be ok anywhere because she's that kind of kid. She will be more challenged - I think - at a Sidwell or a GDS and I would be relieved to step back. But I would be trading that relief for financial stress. And the crazy social and status stuff that comes with private school. Thanks for indulging me in this fantasy world.

One thing to consider is that DCPS is actually pretty good at teaching resilience/ working with lower resources than privates may be. I don't find any of the issues that you cite with DCPS ("nonstop advocacy, feeling like parents have to hold it all up bc it's so chaotic and funding always in jeopardy, issues with staffing and facilities, always wondering if we will lose a teacher or a section, not get a sub, get subjected to a crappy online curriculum") to be ongoing concerns of mine or anything that takes up an inordinate amount of my mental load. I also went to a DCPS when in school and definitely recall working through some of these things myself and I think that it taught me valuable lessons about working with bureaucracies, learning to adapt to changing environments, etc. If your kid is otherwise smart and capable (sounds like it) then maybe a little bit of letting her learn to advocate for herself would serve her well.

Note that I am not saying this to bash on private schools at all- I am in this forum as I am considering private for one of my children for middle school soon (the others are at Deal and JR). But just a different perspective that if something like worrying about your kids having a sub causes anxiety maybe putting them in an environment where they learn to deal with those types of changes will be a different type of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Play along with my total fantasy scenario here: let's imagine my 8th grade DD gets into Sidwell or GDS and also Walls. I think she'd be happy at any of them. She's tough as nails, entirely self-motivated, deeply curious, very smart. Has been happy and successful in DCPS. I, however, am exhausted by DCPS - the nonstop advocacy, feeling like parents have to hold it all up bc it's so chaotic and funding always in jeopardy, issues with staffing and facilities, always wondering if we will lose a teacher or a section, not get a sub, get subjected to a crappy online curriculum. Walls may be protected from some of that, but it's still DCPS. We *can* afford private but we make too much to qualify for aid ($400k) so it will be a stretch. We will have to cut other things like vacations. We won't be doing all the tutoring and extra fancy stuff other kids do like get college essay consultants and marketing people to help develop a podcast or whatever latest thing is the "hook" to get "unhooked" kids into college. Sigh. So, in this totally fantasy scenario...what would you do? She will be ok anywhere because she's that kind of kid. She will be more challenged - I think - at a Sidwell or a GDS and I would be relieved to step back. But I would be trading that relief for financial stress. And the crazy social and status stuff that comes with private school. Thanks for indulging me in this fantasy world.

My only comment to this thread...is that DCPS becomes far less exhausting in high school. At least it was for our family. The high schools don't expect parents to be as involved as you had for elementary school and middle school, and perhaps we lucked out with getting good to great teachers for all classes, especially for the AP classes.

I am a firm believer in the concept of "rigorous enough", and for us Walls was rigorous enough. Our kids are at a top 10 and a top 20 college and one is actually now on track to complete a Masters in 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Sidwell for the rigorous, college prep critical thinking and rigorous classes.

That said, when it comes to college, the students are competing for the same spots. So that pits students against their friends.

I would think a really good student at WALLs could get into a top IVY or a top competitive school maybe even have a better chance than going to Sidwell unless the student has a legacy or athletic hook.

It's just that there are so many good students at Sidwell, with powerful parents and connected parents and so many parents with legacy to certain schools, that no matter how good a student your child is, he or she will be up against those kids when competing for college spots.

Whereas at WALLS, College admissions, appreciate a public school kid, plus your child can take many APs and they cannot take those at Sidwell because APs are not offered, mostly because every class is an AP level of rigor.

But said well, will better prepare your child to be successful in college, as most private DMV schools will, than public school