DCPS (or a charter) should pilot a tech-free (or tech-lite) ES/MS

[Anonymous]

My kids in DCPS are not using tech that much- math is mostly group work now, ELA assignments are all hand written, other classes were said to be “low tech or no tech” at back to school night. They don’t have 1:1 Chromebooks anymore and there is a no cell
Phone policy. It seems reasonable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would sign my kid up for tech-free or tech-lite MS. I live on the Hill with one kid in elementary and I'd instantly be extremely interested in this option.

I will say that our experience in DCPS elementary has not been terrible with regards to tech, Yes there is more than I'd like, especially when you get into the testing and assessments, which are all done on computer. However teachers have some latitude here and perhaps we've been lucky but we've had a lot of teachers who really sought to do as much hands on, screen-free learning as possible. I will say that we pushed back on screens as well -- I have always simply refused to have my kid do iReady as homework and have told teachers directly that if they send home written homework, we will make sure it gets done, but otherwise we will look for screen-free ways to enrich learning. My kid has always tested above grade level in everything so they can't argue with me on this.

I'm sure I sound smug. I don't really care. Choosing to keep screens minimal in our home and in our kid's life is one of the parenting choices I feel confident we got right. There are other things I would do differently, but not this.

In any case, if they decided to make EH or S-H a low tech MS, I'd sign my kid right up. I think the rule this year forcing kids to give up devices for the school day is a step in the right direction, I want to see more.

So what kinds of tradeoffs would you be willing to accept for this? Because that's the real question. Not whether people like the idea in isolation. Would you go to E-H for this? Jefferson? Brookland? Wheatley Education Campus? I think the reason no school is really pushing it is that the people who like it don't like it enough to make the niche work.

Yes, I literally mentioned E-H, I would send my kid there for this program. I would also consider the other schools you mention.

The thing about a program like this is that it would be opt in, which means parents are on board. This would resolve one of the main concerns a lot of us have with a school like Brookland or Wheatley, which is worry about behavior and parental involvement.

I know a lot of parents are obsessed with getting their kids on advanced academic classes but I'm more interested in making sure my kid is in an environment conducive to learning, and also want the kids reading actual books, doing hands on science, etc. so yes, if the programming could guarantee that, I'm totally fine withy kid going to an MS that that doesn't have tippy top test scores across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would sign my kid up for tech-free or tech-lite MS. I live on the Hill with one kid in elementary and I'd instantly be extremely interested in this option.

I will say that our experience in DCPS elementary has not been terrible with regards to tech, Yes there is more than I'd like, especially when you get into the testing and assessments, which are all done on computer. However teachers have some latitude here and perhaps we've been lucky but we've had a lot of teachers who really sought to do as much hands on, screen-free learning as possible. I will say that we pushed back on screens as well -- I have always simply refused to have my kid do iReady as homework and have told teachers directly that if they send home written homework, we will make sure it gets done, but otherwise we will look for screen-free ways to enrich learning. My kid has always tested above grade level in everything so they can't argue with me on this.

I'm sure I sound smug. I don't really care. Choosing to keep screens minimal in our home and in our kid's life is one of the parenting choices I feel confident we got right. There are other things I would do differently, but not this.

In any case, if they decided to make EH or S-H a low tech MS, I'd sign my kid right up. I think the rule this year forcing kids to give up devices for the school day is a step in the right direction, I want to see more.

So what kinds of tradeoffs would you be willing to accept for this? Because that's the real question. Not whether people like the idea in isolation. Would you go to E-H for this? Jefferson? Brookland? Wheatley Education Campus? I think the reason no school is really pushing it is that the people who like it don't like it enough to make the niche work.

Yes, I literally mentioned E-H, I would send my kid there for this program. I would also consider the other schools you mention.

The thing about a program like this is that it would be opt in, which means parents are on board. This would resolve one of the main concerns a lot of us have with a school like Brookland or Wheatley, which is worry about behavior and parental involvement.

I know a lot of parents are obsessed with getting their kids on advanced academic classes but I'm more interested in making sure my kid is in an environment conducive to learning, and also want the kids reading actual books, doing hands on science, etc. so yes, if the programming could guarantee that, I'm totally fine withy kid going to an MS that that doesn't have tippy top test scores across the board.

But DCPS and charters have zero intention of starting any new programs whatsoever. Especially not anything that's extra effort and extra cost.

I definitely do not believe that you would send your child to Wheatley over this. It's not about "tippy top test scores" FFS. It's about avoiding schools with egregiously low test scores. It gets way worse than Wheatley, that's just a nearby example. Why don't you get specific about how bad school you would accept in return for low technology. What percentage on grade level in math? 10%? 5?

It's a mistake to think parents opting into a school means they actually like its signature features. Some like it a lot. Some like it but not well enough to make any effort about it. Some are tolerating it and not that happy. Some actively dislike it but are stuck there due to bad lottery luck or logistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would sign my kid up for tech-free or tech-lite MS. I live on the Hill with one kid in elementary and I'd instantly be extremely interested in this option.

I will say that our experience in DCPS elementary has not been terrible with regards to tech, Yes there is more than I'd like, especially when you get into the testing and assessments, which are all done on computer. However teachers have some latitude here and perhaps we've been lucky but we've had a lot of teachers who really sought to do as much hands on, screen-free learning as possible. I will say that we pushed back on screens as well -- I have always simply refused to have my kid do iReady as homework and have told teachers directly that if they send home written homework, we will make sure it gets done, but otherwise we will look for screen-free ways to enrich learning. My kid has always tested above grade level in everything so they can't argue with me on this.

I'm sure I sound smug. I don't really care. Choosing to keep screens minimal in our home and in our kid's life is one of the parenting choices I feel confident we got right. There are other things I would do differently, but not this.

In any case, if they decided to make EH or S-H a low tech MS, I'd sign my kid right up. I think the rule this year forcing kids to give up devices for the school day is a step in the right direction, I want to see more.

So what kinds of tradeoffs would you be willing to accept for this? Because that's the real question. Not whether people like the idea in isolation. Would you go to E-H for this? Jefferson? Brookland? Wheatley Education Campus? I think the reason no school is really pushing it is that the people who like it don't like it enough to make the niche work.

Yes, I literally mentioned E-H, I would send my kid there for this program. I would also consider the other schools you mention.

The thing about a program like this is that it would be opt in, which means parents are on board. This would resolve one of the main concerns a lot of us have with a school like Brookland or Wheatley, which is worry about behavior and parental involvement.

I know a lot of parents are obsessed with getting their kids on advanced academic classes but I'm more interested in making sure my kid is in an environment conducive to learning, and also want the kids reading actual books, doing hands on science, etc. so yes, if the programming could guarantee that, I'm totally fine withy kid going to an MS that that doesn't have tippy top test scores across the board.

This is incredibly naive! Are you a toddler mommy? You've never heard of behavior issues at a charter school, or bad behavior from an OOB student in a DCPS school? Come on.

And, FFS, parental involvement does NOT automatically mean the behavior is okay, nor does it mean that a kid's academic performance is good.

[Anonymous]

I’m a teacher that would happily drive farther to work at a school with less technology. I’ve been actively yelled at by admin for refusing to use bad tech more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would sign my kid up for tech-free or tech-lite MS. I live on the Hill with one kid in elementary and I'd instantly be extremely interested in this option.

I will say that our experience in DCPS elementary has not been terrible with regards to tech, Yes there is more than I'd like, especially when you get into the testing and assessments, which are all done on computer. However teachers have some latitude here and perhaps we've been lucky but we've had a lot of teachers who really sought to do as much hands on, screen-free learning as possible. I will say that we pushed back on screens as well -- I have always simply refused to have my kid do iReady as homework and have told teachers directly that if they send home written homework, we will make sure it gets done, but otherwise we will look for screen-free ways to enrich learning. My kid has always tested above grade level in everything so they can't argue with me on this.

I'm sure I sound smug. I don't really care. Choosing to keep screens minimal in our home and in our kid's life is one of the parenting choices I feel confident we got right. There are other things I would do differently, but not this.

In any case, if they decided to make EH or S-H a low tech MS, I'd sign my kid right up. I think the rule this year forcing kids to give up devices for the school day is a step in the right direction, I want to see more.

So what kinds of tradeoffs would you be willing to accept for this? Because that's the real question. Not whether people like the idea in isolation. Would you go to E-H for this? Jefferson? Brookland? Wheatley Education Campus? I think the reason no school is really pushing it is that the people who like it don't like it enough to make the niche work.

Yes, I literally mentioned E-H, I would send my kid there for this program. I would also consider the other schools you mention.

The thing about a program like this is that it would be opt in, which means parents are on board. This would resolve one of the main concerns a lot of us have with a school like Brookland or Wheatley, which is worry about behavior and parental involvement.

I know a lot of parents are obsessed with getting their kids on advanced academic classes but I'm more interested in making sure my kid is in an environment conducive to learning, and also want the kids reading actual books, doing hands on science, etc. so yes, if the programming could guarantee that, I'm totally fine withy kid going to an MS that that doesn't have tippy top test scores across the board.

This is incredibly naive! Are you a toddler mommy? You've never heard of behavior issues at a charter school, or bad behavior from an OOB student in a DCPS school? Come on.

And, FFS, parental involvement does NOT automatically mean the behavior is okay, nor does it mean that a kid's academic performance is good.

If PP lives within the E-H boundary, then she’s already familiar with bad student behavior. My kid was at Maury and kids threw tables and chairs at each other. We left for a charter asap, but I know several Maury parents were fine with that behavior. PP is probably one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would sign my kid up for tech-free or tech-lite MS. I live on the Hill with one kid in elementary and I'd instantly be extremely interested in this option.

I will say that our experience in DCPS elementary has not been terrible with regards to tech, Yes there is more than I'd like, especially when you get into the testing and assessments, which are all done on computer. However teachers have some latitude here and perhaps we've been lucky but we've had a lot of teachers who really sought to do as much hands on, screen-free learning as possible. I will say that we pushed back on screens as well -- I have always simply refused to have my kid do iReady as homework and have told teachers directly that if they send home written homework, we will make sure it gets done, but otherwise we will look for screen-free ways to enrich learning. My kid has always tested above grade level in everything so they can't argue with me on this.

I'm sure I sound smug. I don't really care. Choosing to keep screens minimal in our home and in our kid's life is one of the parenting choices I feel confident we got right. There are other things I would do differently, but not this.

In any case, if they decided to make EH or S-H a low tech MS, I'd sign my kid right up. I think the rule this year forcing kids to give up devices for the school day is a step in the right direction, I want to see more.

So what kinds of tradeoffs would you be willing to accept for this? Because that's the real question. Not whether people like the idea in isolation. Would you go to E-H for this? Jefferson? Brookland? Wheatley Education Campus? I think the reason no school is really pushing it is that the people who like it don't like it enough to make the niche work.

Yes, I literally mentioned E-H, I would send my kid there for this program. I would also consider the other schools you mention.

The thing about a program like this is that it would be opt in, which means parents are on board. This would resolve one of the main concerns a lot of us have with a school like Brookland or Wheatley, which is worry about behavior and parental involvement.

I know a lot of parents are obsessed with getting their kids on advanced academic classes but I'm more interested in making sure my kid is in an environment conducive to learning, and also want the kids reading actual books, doing hands on science, etc. so yes, if the programming could guarantee that, I'm totally fine withy kid going to an MS that that doesn't have tippy top test scores across the board.

This is incredibly naive! Are you a toddler mommy? You've never heard of behavior issues at a charter school, or bad behavior from an OOB student in a DCPS school? Come on.

And, FFS, parental involvement does NOT automatically mean the behavior is okay, nor does it mean that a kid's academic performance is good.

If PP lives within the E-H boundary, then she’s already familiar with bad student behavior. My kid was at Maury and kids threw tables and chairs at each other. We left for a charter asap, but I know several Maury parents were fine with that behavior. PP is probably one of them.

This really just makes my point. Maury is a school that people *choose* to attend. They choose it by moving IB and not lotterying elsewhere, or they choose it by lotterying in. The number of kids at Maury whose parent's haven't made a conscious choice to be there is very small. Yet, there's behavior. A school or program that people must choose does NOT mean there is no bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

Khan is OK for limited purposes. It doesn’t replace an actual teacher or a textbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

Khan is OK for limited purposes. It doesn’t replace an actual teacher or a textbook.

This really just isn’t true. Khan Academy more than replaces a text book. It is a smarter and more responsive and adaptive version of a textbook. Unless you literally just prefer paper, Khan Academy is better and I’d be willing to bet more kids learn more math from Khan Academy than from a textbook. Now, it’s clearly not as good as a good (or even mediocre) teacher, but differentiation usually can’t involve an additional teacher for every student. So assuming tech-free doesn’t mean teachers grow on trees, then I’d prefer tech for my high achieving kid assuming the normal DCPS resource constraints. And I think, despite what the say during the ECE years, many parents of high achieving kids would feel the same way by 1st or 2nd grade. Once those high achieving kids opted out, what counts as high achieving shifts and you risk a cycle (the same sort of cycle that happens in upper ES at many Montessori schools that parents love for ECE-K).

[Anonymous]

How much tech are you allowing at home though?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

Khan is OK for limited purposes. It doesn’t replace an actual teacher or a textbook.

This really just isn’t true. Khan Academy more than replaces a text book. It is a smarter and more responsive and adaptive version of a textbook. Unless you literally just prefer paper, Khan Academy is better and I’d be willing to bet more kids learn more math from Khan Academy than from a textbook. Now, it’s clearly not as good as a good (or even mediocre) teacher, but differentiation usually can’t involve an additional teacher for every student. So assuming tech-free doesn’t mean teachers grow on trees, then I’d prefer tech for my high achieving kid assuming the normal DCPS resource constraints. And I think, despite what the say during the ECE years, many parents of high achieving kids would feel the same way by 1st or 2nd grade. Once those high achieving kids opted out, what counts as high achieving shifts and you risk a cycle (the same sort of cycle that happens in upper ES at many Montessori schools that parents love for ECE-K).

Totally this. There are not enough parents who would stick with it long-term, because not enough people care that much about being low-screen if it means other tradeoffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

Khan is OK for limited purposes. It doesn’t replace an actual teacher or a textbook.

This really just isn’t true. Khan Academy more than replaces a text book. It is a smarter and more responsive and adaptive version of a textbook. Unless you literally just prefer paper, Khan Academy is better and I’d be willing to bet more kids learn more math from Khan Academy than from a textbook. Now, it’s clearly not as good as a good (or even mediocre) teacher, but differentiation usually can’t involve an additional teacher for every student. So assuming tech-free doesn’t mean teachers grow on trees, then I’d prefer tech for my high achieving kid assuming the normal DCPS resource constraints. And I think, despite what the say during the ECE years, many parents of high achieving kids would feel the same way by 1st or 2nd grade. Once those high achieving kids opted out, what counts as high achieving shifts and you risk a cycle (the same sort of cycle that happens in upper ES at many Montessori schools that parents love for ECE-K).

Wow, some parents are so desperate for their child to be ‘high achieving’ they think something like Khan will be the thing that’s going to prepare them.

[Anonymous]

I know this school gets so much hate, but BASIS has very little tech in middle school -- the only thing my child has done in the couple years he's been there is type up an essay and occasionally do online practice in history class.

Everything else -- note taking, quizzes, tests, homework -- is handwritten.

It is a major reason that we picked the school vs the alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would worry that the tech-free school would have no differentiation. I am aware that screen-free differentiation is possible, but it is harder without more resources (specifically, additional teachers/coaches/support staff), almost never happens and screens definitely make it much easier. As a result, I think a tech-free school would end up losing high achieving kids once their parents realized what was happening (1st/2nd).

And that would be a poor choice. I’d rather have my kid “undifferentiated” than stuck in front of a computer. Plus there are ways to differentiate without computers.

You say that now but you'll feel differently when it's happening, or when your middle schooler is plodding through Math 8 rather than Algebra I and Geometry.

lol. I am saying that now because basically every kid in Algebra I is going to have to repeat it (even the good math kids) because the computer program is so terrible and there is not even a textbook or syllabus for parents to use on their own with the kid.

Go to Khan Academy. It’s h better than a textbook

Khan is OK for limited purposes. It doesn’t replace an actual teacher or a textbook.

This really just isn’t true. Khan Academy more than replaces a text book. It is a smarter and more responsive and adaptive version of a textbook. Unless you literally just prefer paper, Khan Academy is better and I’d be willing to bet more kids learn more math from Khan Academy than from a textbook. Now, it’s clearly not as good as a good (or even mediocre) teacher, but differentiation usually can’t involve an additional teacher for every student. So assuming tech-free doesn’t mean teachers grow on trees, then I’d prefer tech for my high achieving kid assuming the normal DCPS resource constraints. And I think, despite what the say during the ECE years, many parents of high achieving kids would feel the same way by 1st or 2nd grade. Once those high achieving kids opted out, what counts as high achieving shifts and you risk a cycle (the same sort of cycle that happens in upper ES at many Montessori schools that parents love for ECE-K).

Yeah then just homeschool your kid. Kids need teachers and moreover, need a clear-cut syllabus with the external structure that makes sure they learn what they need to learn in the class.

As for textbooks, there are multiple problems with the online programs:

1. The online programs often do not have an index or easy way for the student to return to prior lessons to review the way a textbook does
2. A textbook is much simpler for the student and parent to track - much easier to “do problems 1-35 on page 50” than have to figure out where you are in the program.
3. A textbook with written problem sets allows the parent, teacher and student to better assess how the student has done on each problem. the online apps just push you through the problems and do not easily retain the work for review.
4. Many of the online apps fail to provide adequate explanation compared to a textbook or teacher. To the extent a student wants to review the explanation or lesson, instead of reviewing notes or a textbook, they have to figure out where the information is in a video or the app - and sometimes it is not possible to go back in the app and find it.
5. Many of the online apps that are “adaptive” fail to actually provide sufficient practice and review. The kid gets one question right and they don’t see that skill again.
6. many of the online apps are buggy and frustrate the kids - rejecting correct answers if eg there is a typo.
7. The online apps can be very frustrating (especially those with voiceover) because they move slowly and drone on.
8. The additional executive function needed to navigate the apps (and the frustration of bugs and annoying narrators) imposes a big extra executive function burden on the kid and makes math more aversive.