3 + 2 engineering dual degree program

[Anonymous]

My kid is at Dartmouth and the cost of attendance is $94k this year. The only students I know who are doing the 3-1-1 engineering program are either:

-on full aid or close to it
-wealthy with unlimited money to spend

Otherwise it's not realistic or smart for most to pay another $94K. It becomes an issue for traditional 4 year students at Dartmouth as well because it's hard to do the BS in engineering in 4 years there (that's another conversation).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a student that has experience with these programs ? Considering it for our DC current junior. Pros/ cons? TIA!

DC considered it as a back up plan because they wanted smallish classes, Engineering cohort of 300-1000 per year, under 15k undergrads. They used top LACs with 3-2 programs and Dartmouth(4+1) as a backup. Luckily got into many top 4yr engineering programs and is currently at an ivy. Now that they understand the main career paths for access to top engineering jobs, they understand that a physics major at a LAC then straight to engineering masters or phd is completely possible and acceptable, and allows one to stay at the same undergrad for 4 years. The mid-level 80k start/100k top-out engineer jobs, with no room for moving up to R&D or management without going back to school, are not what anyone at their ivy want. BSE alone and no plan for eventual phD or MSE or MBA is not common unless someone already has a startup idea and is working on VC during undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP - So I am trying to figure out why our college counselor is recommending this for my DC. With so many disadvantages it doesn’t seem like the best option. Do counselors recommend these programs for weak STEM students who they think can’t get into or won’t be able to handle a traditional engineering school?

In that these students will be expected to take math through multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations; at least two physics courses; and at least one course in chemistry and computer science at their liberal arts institutions, such a trajectory would not seem suitable for students perceived as being weak in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One negative is that that 5th year will cost you another $100K.

Or, a student may be eligible for financial assistance.

Don't forget opportunity cost. That extra year is a year when they could be starting their career, so $90k of earned income and a year of experience. It literally will set you back financially for your whole career.

However, this extrapolation assumes no added value from the liberal arts component of a five-year education.

You take liberal arts classes as electives. There's far more value to getting an MS in engineering instead of spending an extra year piddling around at a LAC.

[Anonymous]

DP - so does anyone know why college counselors recommend these programs if there are so many disadvantages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a student that has experience with these programs ? Considering it for our DC current junior. Pros/ cons? TIA!

Nobody does these programs. If you want to be an engineer, be an engineer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there programs where you do your first 2 years at your liberal arts college, then 3rd year at engineering college, back to liberal arts college for senior year and then 5th year at engineering college? This way you still get senior year with your class? And 3rd year, many other classmates are doing junior year abroad anyway?

Do these exist? That would be o much more appealing for DC. Really doesn’t like the idea of essentially missing out on senior year at the undergrad school.

Haven't you read this topic? It's only a few posts long?

The topic was asking about 3+2 programs, in which the student loses out on their senior year. The pp was talking about a program where the two years at the engineering program are split between the junior year and the post-senior year, which I’ve never seen, hence the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP - so does anyone know why college counselors recommend these programs if there are so many disadvantages?

Because they're not engineers, know nothing about becoming an engineer, and pride themselves in their knowledge of obscure college options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3+2 Occidental College/Caltech, followed by grad school at Caltech, Chicago and Harvard. Worked out great

Chicago and Harvard seem like odd schools to choose for Graduate Engineering. Harvard at #20 and Chicago unranked. Did you go to graduate school for something other than Engineering?

Engineering, Business, Medicine

[Anonymous]

If it includes a masters, yes. We talked to one school and you spent three years with them, two at another school and it made no sense as they did not offer the classes there so why even pretend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there programs where you do your first 2 years at your liberal arts college, then 3rd year at engineering college, back to liberal arts college for senior year and then 5th year at engineering college? This way you still get senior year with your class? And 3rd year, many other classmates are doing junior year abroad anyway?

Do these exist? That would be o much more appealing for DC. Really doesn’t like the idea of essentially missing out on senior year at the undergrad school.

Haven't you read this topic? It's only a few posts long?

The topic was asking about 3+2 programs, in which the student loses out on their senior year. The pp was talking about a program where the two years at the engineering program are split between the junior year and the post-senior year, which I’ve never seen, hence the question.

Information on such a program, including a link showing partner schools, appeared in the first reply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a student that has experience with these programs ? Considering it for our DC current junior. Pros/ cons? TIA!

Nobody does these programs. If you want to be an engineer, be an engineer.

It’s way for these non engineering schools to try to market themselves since they can’t compete with the Top Engineering programs. The combined liberal arts and engineering thing is just silly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]Our college counselor says these programs are basically fake, as no kids actually do the dual degree. They are to say there is a pathway but the reality is that no kids do the program (and so there's a very high likelihood yours wouldn't either).

[/b]

Correct. I served in the board of my SKAC. It offers a 3-2 with Cal Tech but the truth is very few students take it in. The program exists only so the SLAc can say it offers engineering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One negative is that that 5th year will cost you another $100K.

Or, a student may be eligible for financial assistance.

Don't forget opportunity cost. That extra year is a year when they could be starting their career, so $90k of earned income and a year of experience. It literally will set you back financially for your whole career.

However, this extrapolation assumes no added value from the liberal arts component of a five-year education.

You take liberal arts classes as electives. There's far more value to getting an MS in engineering instead of spending an extra year piddling around at a LAC.

This. And a master's in engineering will be needed by most students because there is a glass ceiling without one. Folks targeting mgmt roles might get a MBA. Folks planning to stay technical usually get an engineering masters degree. Same applies to CS, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3+2 Occidental College/Caltech, followed by grad school at Caltech, Chicago and Harvard. Worked out great

Chicago and Harvard seem like odd schools to choose for Graduate Engineering. Harvard at #20 and Chicago unranked. Did you go to graduate school for something other than Engineering?

Engineering, Business, Medicine

Sounds like a professional student uninterested in getting a real job.