Disappointed with Barnard

[Anonymous]

Ivies and other top 20 schools have made classes easier because their non-academic admits would get very low grades and not find jobs. Students also give bad ratings to professors who grade harshly. This would be a bad look for those colleges. Those alumni without good jobs then could not donate to the school later. Remember they are private schools and need to keep it going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ivies and other top 20 schools have made classes easier because their non-academic admits would get very low grades and not find jobs. Students also give bad ratings to professors who grade harshly. This would be a bad look for those colleges. Those alumni without good jobs then could not donate to the school later. Remember they are private schools and need to keep it going.

Not all schools are like that. Try UChicago and get your first D in a class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is grade inflation and AI use everywhere, which can make any hard class easy.

DD is a sophomore at Barnard and has been shocked by the grade inflation there...nobody gets lower than an A- if they do the work.

This shouldn’t be a surprise. These schools are generally expensive. Students are paying customers. Tougher grading means many customers wont like the product and will look elsewhere. = less customers.

It’s not like these schools act like it’s a meritocracy or anything crazy like that…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can she transfer to General Studies so that she could take Columbia classes?

No. There are restrictions on general studies students they can’t take Columbia courses as they wish. Columbia College students take core curriculum pretty much with their own. Small classes under 20 kids, these include introductory courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is first year at Barnard and, though she loves being in the city, she is finding the classes pretty easy (and she came from a public school with a lot of grade inflation). She expected more rigor/to be challenged more and maybe that's still to come but she's underwhelmed. Anyone else?

She's a Women's Study major. That’s why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is first year at Barnard and, though she loves being in the city, she is finding the classes pretty easy (and she came from a public school with a lot of grade inflation). She expected more rigor/to be challenged more and maybe that's still to come but she's underwhelmed. Anyone else?

At the college prep private high schools my kids went to, the curriculum was rigorous. They both said that their freshman year was easier because of the HS work.

Maybe the same for your DD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she transfer to General Studies so that she could take Columbia classes?

No. There are restrictions on general studies students they can’t take Columbia courses as they wish. Columbia College students take core curriculum pretty much with their own. Small classes under 20 kids, these include introductory courses.

https://www.gs.columbia.edu/content/general-studies-gs-undergraduates

GS students take the same classes with the same professors as all Columbia undergraduates. Undergraduate courses are taught by members of the Columbia University Faculty of Arts and Sciences.

There is no difference between GS and CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child has had the same freshman year experience at an Ivy (not Columbia so I can't speak to it's rigor). Classes are ridiculously easy even as a STEM major and many peers are not doing well in them (grades on tests as low as in the teens). All together a big step down in rigor and peer group from child's private high school. They got a job for 15-20 hours a week to fill the time.

I have no doubt that there are Ivies and other colleges that are still rigorous but many are not. I am not posting this to be a jerk or a snob at all but because it's been really eye opening.

It might be interesting to consider this through a site that names colleges where student responses indicate they “study the most”:

Colleges Where Students Study the Most | The Princeton Review https://share.google/Zfwlzd1bmThPGaDaq

Tech-oriented schools . . . Caltech, Mudd, Olin, Rose-Hulman, MIT, Webb, Rice . . . appear liberally, along with a cluster of NESCACs . . . Williams, Colby, Bowdoin, Amherst, Hamilton. One Ivy, Princeton, does appear, as does a Sister, Wellesley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has had the same freshman year experience at an Ivy (not Columbia so I can't speak to it's rigor). Classes are ridiculously easy even as a STEM major and many peers are not doing well in them (grades on tests as low as in the teens). All together a big step down in rigor and peer group from child's private high school. They got a job for 15-20 hours a week to fill the time.

I have no doubt that there are Ivies and other colleges that are still rigorous but many are not. I am not posting this to be a jerk or a snob at all but because it's been really eye opening.

It might be interesting to consider this through a site that names colleges where student responses indicate they “study the most”:

Colleges Where Students Study the Most | The Princeton Review https://share.google/Zfwlzd1bmThPGaDaq (this is not a safe link, do not click it)

Tech-oriented schools . . . Caltech, Mudd, Olin, Rose-Hulman, MIT, Webb, Rice . . . appear liberally, along with a cluster of NESCACs . . . Williams, Colby, Bowdoin, Amherst, Hamilton. One Ivy, Princeton, does appear, as does a Sister, Wellesley.

There's nothing interesting about this. It's survey responses and I'm not convinced a Colby Anthropology major is studying less than a Yale or Columbia anthropology major.

[Anonymous]

I also went from a non elite public school to Barnard. I do remember being shocked at how much less work it was because in high school you are literally in class all day, every single class gives you homework, and you are in a rat race to take as many AP tests as possible and be in leadership positions in clubs. In college, you’re only in class a few hours a week. You learn that the difficulty comes from having to produce original thought and read full books and original research rather than summaries of them. It’s very possible to coast at these schools if you want, but for a student who loves learning and rigor, they can absolutely challenge themselves, I promise. In addition, I took the maximum number of allowed credits most semesters, fully utilized the shopping period to find the best classes, and had a campus job. There were a lot of things I didn’t love about Barnard/Columbia (campus culture is snobby and elitist, the crazy activism that distracted from learning - both these things are more true at Columbia than Barnard), but I got a fantastic education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also went from a non elite public school to Barnard. I do remember being shocked at how much less work it was because in high school you are literally in class all day, every single class gives you homework, and you are in a rat race to take as many AP tests as possible and be in leadership positions in clubs. In college, you’re only in class a few hours a week. You learn that the difficulty comes from having to produce original thought and read full books and original research rather than summaries of them. It’s very possible to coast at these schools if you want, but for a student who loves learning and rigor, they can absolutely challenge themselves, I promise. In addition, I took the maximum number of allowed credits most semesters, fully utilized the shopping period to find the best classes, and had a campus job. There were a lot of things I didn’t love about Barnard/Columbia (campus culture is snobby and elitist, the crazy activism that distracted from learning - both these things are more true at Columbia than Barnard), but I got a fantastic education.

Barnard also does not have a very rigorous set of distribution requirements. It's very easy for a student not to go outside her comfort zone, especially if she has a few 4s or 5s on APs that can get her out of disciplines she doesn't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has had the same freshman year experience at an Ivy (not Columbia so I can't speak to it's rigor). Classes are ridiculously easy even as a STEM major and many peers are not doing well in them (grades on tests as low as in the teens). All together a big step down in rigor and peer group from child's private high school. They got a job for 15-20 hours a week to fill the time.

I have no doubt that there are Ivies and other colleges that are still rigorous but many are not. I am not posting this to be a jerk or a snob at all but because it's been really eye opening.

It might be interesting to consider this through a site that names colleges where student responses indicate they “study the most”:

Colleges Where Students Study the Most | The Princeton Review https://share.google/Zfwlzd1bmThPGaDaq (this is not a safe link, do not click it)

Tech-oriented schools . . . Caltech, Mudd, Olin, Rose-Hulman, MIT, Webb, Rice . . . appear liberally, along with a cluster of NESCACs . . . Williams, Colby, Bowdoin, Amherst, Hamilton. One Ivy, Princeton, does appear, as does a Sister, Wellesley.

There's nothing interesting about this. It's survey responses and I'm not convinced a Colby Anthropology major is studying [more] than a Yale or Columbia anthropology major.

It's possible that you don't find formalized information in general to be interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is first year at Barnard and, though she loves being in the city, she is finding the classes pretty easy (and she came from a public school with a lot of grade inflation). She expected more rigor/to be challenged more and maybe that's still to come but she's underwhelmed. Anyone else?

Which high school did she come from?

Things will get harder and she will have more electives soon that she may be more interested in. Just relax and enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she transfer to General Studies so that she could take Columbia classes?

No. There are restrictions on general studies students they can’t take Columbia courses as they wish. Columbia College students take core curriculum pretty much with their own. Small classes under 20 kids, these include introductory courses.

https://www.gs.columbia.edu/content/general-studies-gs-undergraduates

GS students take the same classes with the same professors as all Columbia undergraduates. Undergraduate courses are taught by members of the Columbia University Faculty of Arts and Sciences.

There is no difference between GS and CC.

This does not say that GS students are eligible for all of the courses available to CC students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also went from a non elite public school to Barnard. I do remember being shocked at how much less work it was because in high school you are literally in class all day, every single class gives you homework, and you are in a rat race to take as many AP tests as possible and be in leadership positions in clubs. In college, you’re only in class a few hours a week. You learn that the difficulty comes from having to produce original thought and read full books and original research rather than summaries of them. It’s very possible to coast at these schools if you want, but for a student who loves learning and rigor, they can absolutely challenge themselves, I promise. In addition, I took the maximum number of allowed credits most semesters, fully utilized the shopping period to find the best classes, and had a campus job. There were a lot of things I didn’t love about Barnard/Columbia (campus culture is snobby and elitist, the crazy activism that distracted from learning - both these things are more true at Columbia than Barnard), but I got a fantastic education.

I have two students at other Top 25-Top 40 schools and they pure volume of work was so much more than what they had at their public high school that it was a huge adjustment first semester, even if they were "in class" for fewer hours. It sounds like this is not OP's DDs experience at Barnard. Maybe that's good--easy transition to college and it will presumably ramp up? But I would be frustrated if I felt like my kid wasn't being challenged at all...