YCBK - kids being funneled into IB and consulting

[Anonymous]

It's because they want to be employed after graduation. They want to be able to pay rent. These are not awful goals.

Moreover, a lot of these companies and the universities provide a clear path for applying for and interviewing for these jobs.

Other jobs often require more hunting and hustling to find out how to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

THIS. I posted about this on here a month or so ago and everyone told me I was exaggerating. But it's the same at my kid's Ivy. EVERYONE is going into IB. ALL the engineers, math majors, etc. It's like a thunder dome to get internships and they are going to the HARD STEM kids in 2025, not the economics majors and you need a 4.0 or close to it.
My own kid is studying math and computer science and working his a$$ off for perfect grades in order to even have the option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I went to law school nearly 20 years ago, we were pushed pretty aggressively into corporate law jobs. I was focused on family law or trusts and estates, because I wanted to work directly with clients and found it a lot more interesting/relevant than working at a Big Law firm where I never interacted with clients and spent 90% of my time stuck in a room by myself reading documents. I had multiple offers from smaller family and T&E firms but my career counselor told me I'd be crazy to take one of them over the two Big Law offers I got because, "this is your only shot at Big Law."

I lasted two years and moved into the kind of law I actually like. It was a waste of my time. It didn't help that much with loans even because those first couple years in Big Law are overwhelming with insane hours and while the cash was good, I was paying a premium to live close to the office and all my friends were also at big firms and everyone just bleeds money. I moved to a small firm and started doing prenups, postnups and divorces, settled my lifestyle down, built real rapport with clients, and had my loans paid off in 5 years and was in a much more mature and settled place than any of my Big Law friends by the time I was 30 because I had a good lifestyle and actually liked my job and wasn't panicking about being counseled out imminently.

If my kid is ever in the same boat, I'm going to be the voice of reason advising her to really think about whether she *wants* one of these high paying jobs, or is just doing it for peer pressure and prestige. Those aren't good reasons. 90% of my classmates from law school went to big firms after graduation. Only a small handful are still at those firms and everyone else fled for small firms, government, in-house, policy work. The in-house jobs and some of the government positions probably required having the Big Law experience, none of the other jobs did. Also in my two years of Big Law work, I didn't do a single thing that a smart college grad couldn't have done, or even a college intern. My main job was just to bill as many hours as possible, the work was mind numbingly boring.

Graduated from law school in the late 1980s, worked for the courts and CA state service (could never have gotten a Big Law job), retired with a good defined benefit pension, retiree health care and a nice home, while watching my kid play little league games.

Could have been worse.

[Anonymous]

I listened to the interview. This guy seems really angry w the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

THIS. I posted about this on here a month or so ago and everyone told me I was exaggerating. But it's the same at my kid's Ivy. EVERYONE is going into IB. ALL the engineers, math majors, etc. It's like a thunder dome to get internships and they are going to the HARD STEM kids in 2025, not the economics majors and you need a 4.0 or close to it.
My own kid is studying math and computer science and working his a$$ off for perfect grades in order to even have the option.

My kid is at an Ivy studying CS and he knows very few in CS or engineering who are interested in IB.

He already has an internship lined up in AI out in SF and his STEM buds are mostly working in tech…with some going the hedge fund route and one working in VC. These jobs all for the most part pay more than IB analyst jobs…some much more.

I don’t know if you are using IB as a euphemism for finance, because the various jobs are very different and IB is definitely the one area that is least attractive to most STEM kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know Ivy grads (mostly from Harvard, Yale, Brown) who majored in biology, comparative literature, art history, political science, history, psychology, philosophy, etc who are all working in consulting (mostly in NYC). Some were pre-med or pre-law but got derailed by the entry level salary and signing bonus.

Same here. And a lot of them.
Mostly Dartmouth. Cornell. Brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because they want to be employed after graduation. They want to be able to pay rent. These are not awful goals.

Moreover, a lot of these companies and the universities provide a clear path for applying for and interviewing for these jobs.

Other jobs often require more hunting and hustling to find out how to get.

Exactly. This is why.
The schools themselves funnel these kids here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

What would she like do with an advanced degree in Econ? Has she considered waiting a year or two and doing non-profit work? Maybe with one of the big non-profit legal aid organizations?

They're doing incredibly important work, and some of the larger ones are sophisticated operations. For a smart college graduate not caught up in the IB/consulting prestige game and not burdened by financial limitations (i.e. with parents who are willing to help), it could be a valuable way to get a few years of experience in the real world before making her next move.

Legal aid orgs REALLY need help right now, and kids don't need to have a law degree to have an immediate impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

What would she like do with an advanced degree in Econ? Has she considered waiting a year or two and doing non-profit work? Maybe with one of the big non-profit legal aid organizations?

They're doing incredibly important work, and some of the larger ones are sophisticated operations. For a smart college graduate not caught up in the IB/consulting prestige game and not burdened by financial limitations (i.e. with parents who are willing to help), it could be a valuable way to get a few years of experience in the real world before making her next move.

Legal aid orgs REALLY need help right now, and kids don't need to have a law degree to have an immediate impact.

I’m the PP and your point is well taken. Yes she’s looking for something she would perceive as meaningful. We have resources but not unlimited, so she needs to be able to support herself more or less

She’s thinking about possibly doing Econ work for an NGO, or the UN, or maybe like the OECD (which would be sweet because it’s in Paris).

I’ve encouraged her to think beyond who is coming to campus to interview. But these kids all see a JPM or GS analyst job as the next rung on the ladder they have been climbing their whole lives.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone read the podcast transcripts on their iPhone? I can’t and wondering if there’s a trick to it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

What would she like do with an advanced degree in Econ? Has she considered waiting a year or two and doing non-profit work? Maybe with one of the big non-profit legal aid organizations?

They're doing incredibly important work, and some of the larger ones are sophisticated operations. For a smart college graduate not caught up in the IB/consulting prestige game and not burdened by financial limitations (i.e. with parents who are willing to help), it could be a valuable way to get a few years of experience in the real world before making her next move.

Legal aid orgs REALLY need help right now, and kids don't need to have a law degree to have an immediate impact.

I’m the PP and your point is well taken. Yes she’s looking for something she would perceive as meaningful. We have resources but not unlimited, so she needs to be able to support herself more or less

She’s thinking about possibly doing Econ work for an NGO, or the UN, or maybe like the OECD (which would be sweet because it’s in Paris).

I’ve encouraged her to think beyond who is coming to campus to interview. But these kids all see a JPM or GS analyst job as the next rung on the ladder they have been climbing their whole lives.

I get it about the peer pressure /ladder thing. My friend’s DD started talking nonstop about “consulting” within a month of starting at her T10 school. Prior to that, she had NO IDEA what it was, and neither did her Caribbean-immigrant parents (“Consulting? She knows nothing. Who would pay her to ‘consult’?? Is this a scam??” 😂)

Like everything, it’s good to have kids who are willing to talk with us about these things along the way. If nothing else, we can support them emotionally (they’re under ridiculous stress in this economy) while encouraging them to think creatively and independently. Same as always … just the “grown up kid” version.

Good luck to you and your DD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "Excellent Sheep" book covered this in 2015. Which I guess someone who knows what YCBK is probably knows already.

Oh man my CEO wrote a blog post about that in 2011 explaining wht he doesn't hire from the Ivy League.

Then he hired his senior execs from the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

This is nothing new. I remember alarms being raised back in the 90s when something like half the senior class at Yale interviewed for Goldman.

[Anonymous]

A very good kid I know just got his junior summer internship at BlackRock. Growing up, he loved reading and wanted to be an editor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A very good kid I know just got his junior summer internship at BlackRock. Growing up, he loved reading and wanted to be an editor.

as an editor, I don't think that's a terrible move. publishing is a shitshow