Taking out a second mortgage to buy stocks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

This is why normies stay poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

You’re going to get fked at some point by leverage decay if you have prolonged down days in the market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People were saying to not invest in Nvidia 5 years ago and it was going to crash. Look at where Nvidia is now. Always remember that people always say there are bubbles and never are shamed into not giving their opinions again when these bubbles never burst.

People were saying Apple was a goner when Steve Jobs died too.

Hindsight is always 20/20. For every Nvidia, Apple, Amazon, there are thousands of companies that don't make it. Are you willing to bet your house picking the next future winners?

Magnificent 7 is 1/3 of the S&P. It's obvious who the winners will be in an oligarchic/monopolistic market. Get in or get left behind.

I assume they can pay the 2nd mortgage out of income if the bets don't quite perform or have a pullback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People were saying to not invest in Nvidia 5 years ago and it was going to crash. Look at where Nvidia is now. Always remember that people always say there are bubbles and never are shamed into not giving their opinions again when these bubbles never burst.

People were saying Apple was a goner when Steve Jobs died too.

Hindsight is always 20/20. For every Nvidia, Apple, Amazon, there are thousands of companies that don't make it. Are you willing to bet your house picking the next future winners?

Magnificent 7 is 1/3 of the S&P. It's obvious who the winners will be in an oligarchic/monopolistic market. Get in or get left behind.

I assume they can pay the 2nd mortgage out of income if the bets don't quite perform or have a pullback.

If they could do that the gambler could have invested in stocks all along at lower prices too. He had a midlife crisis or is ill. OP how did he get a mortgage without you signing?

Call a lawyer and protect what's left of your share of assets now,

[Anonymous]

Why not just DCA the future Heloc monthly payment for the next 10+ years into AI stocks?
The average may end up lower than putting all $300k into it now. Should leave that house alone.
If he needs some excitement, have him open a separate Roth (Robinhood recommended) or do backdoor if you all earn too much. Then trade away inside of it risking $7k max.
I doubled my new Roth last year ending with $14k. Then added another $7k and doubled it again this year.
I learned so much from the mistakes - mostly patience, but so much more.
It's ok to sit in the cash and wait for the dips. NFA.

[Anonymous]

Nope. Good way to lose your house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People were saying to not invest in Nvidia 5 years ago and it was going to crash. Look at where Nvidia is now. Always remember that people always say there are bubbles and never are shamed into not giving their opinions again when these bubbles never burst.

People were saying Apple was a goner when Steve Jobs died too.

Hindsight is always 20/20. For every Nvidia, Apple, Amazon, there are thousands of companies that don't make it. Are you willing to bet your house picking the next future winners?

Magnificent 7 is 1/3 of the S&P. It's obvious who the winners will be in an oligarchic/monopolistic market. Get in or get left behind.

I assume they can pay the 2nd mortgage out of income if the bets don't quite perform or have a pullback.

Too funny. Yes, water is wet.

What made you "assume" that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm calling it. This is the market top in the AI bubble.

I did not think so and still don't but this post if real certainly points in that direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is convinced this is a brilliant move and has initiated a second mortgage on our house. $300K 30-year fixed APR at 8.49%. This gives us $950K debt total on a $1.3M house.

Wants to buy in to AI stocks before it is too late. Is everyone else doing stuff like this and I’m just overly conservative? This seems like a bad move.

Math is hard, and while the stock market over time will produce returns in excess of a savings account your DH has not thought this true.

Here is some data on past market performance - https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/#:~:text=Average%20S%26P%20500%20Return%20for%20the%20Last%2030%20Years,%25%20when%20adjusted%20for%20inflation). You will be taking on debt in exchange for very little potential gain. Better off just investing a little bit every month in an index fund and watch it grow over 30 years.

[Anonymous]

If there is bubble, I am going to jump in and buy for our kids. They have time on their side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

This is why normies stay poor.

OK, except I’m not poor or anything close to it. And your response provides no information to explain how this math works. Maybe instead of being sarcastic you could provide a helpful response to the OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

This is why normies stay poor.

OK, except I’m not poor or anything close to it. And your response provides no information to explain how this math works. Maybe instead of being sarcastic you could provide a helpful response to the OP.

Don’t mind him. I bet that’s the same babbling poster who likes to insult other posters then posts long incoherent posts/responses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

I don’t understand this. You are paying 7.625% on money you borrowed to make (after inflation) a max of 8%? So you’re taking on a ton of risk to make, in the best case scenario, less than .5% on your money?

This is why normies stay poor.

OK, except I’m not poor or anything close to it. And your response provides no information to explain how this math works. Maybe instead of being sarcastic you could provide a helpful response to the OP.

Don’t mind him. I bet that’s the same babbling poster who likes to insult other posters then posts long incoherent posts/responses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did this but with a triple leveraged Nasdaq fund (TQQQ). With annual returns averaging 8-10% (not accounting for inflation, so more like 6-8% real returns), we are almost guaranteed an annualized return of 20-24%. Our current HELOC rate is 7.625%, so we are basically printing $50k annually for the next 25 years. I thought everyone did this?

Please tell me you're a troll. If not, you certainly shouldn't be executing this investment strategy because you clearly don't understand it.