Alexandria Catholic School - no critical thinking??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, memorizing mundane and intricate facts is absolutely essential. Maybe one day they’ll invent something where kids can easily retrieve esoteric information at will, but until that day, rote memorization must be the focus over analysis and critical thinking.

It’s also a binary choice — rote memorization OR critical thinking. I understand why the school chose the former.

I can't think of any good reason for students to memorize mundane or intricate facts like when the Revolutionary War happened, what the Stamp Act was, when the Mexican-American War happened, and who was President during World War II. That's some pretty in-the-weeds stuff, and they could always just look it up on the internet.

Yes, mid conversation or debate they can just say, wait a minute while I look up the basic facts everyone else knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 7th grader in a public school is doing both - why can't they both learn facts and learn how to think critically about those facts and what the implication of them has been?

They probably are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, memorizing mundane and intricate facts is absolutely essential. Maybe one day they’ll invent something where kids can easily retrieve esoteric information at will, but until that day, rote memorization must be the focus over analysis and critical thinking.

It’s also a binary choice — rote memorization OR critical thinking. I understand why the school chose the former.

I can't think of any good reason for students to memorize mundane or intricate facts like when the Revolutionary War happened, what the Stamp Act was, when the Mexican-American War happened, and who was President during World War II. That's some pretty in-the-weeds stuff, and they could always just look it up on the internet.

Yes, mid conversation or debate they can just say, wait a minute while I look up the basic facts everyone else knows.

If you're discussing the American Revolution, you really don't need to know who George Washington was. It's enough to just say that there was a bad country that bossed us around--not sure exactly which one--and we declared independence from them at some point a long time ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, memorizing mundane and intricate facts is absolutely essential. Maybe one day they’ll invent something where kids can easily retrieve esoteric information at will, but until that day, rote memorization must be the focus over analysis and critical thinking.

It’s also a binary choice — rote memorization OR critical thinking. I understand why the school chose the former.

I can't think of any good reason for students to memorize mundane or intricate facts like when the Revolutionary War happened, what the Stamp Act was, when the Mexican-American War happened, and who was President during World War II. That's some pretty in-the-weeds stuff, and they could always just look it up on the internet.

Yes, mid conversation or debate they can just say, wait a minute while I look up the basic facts everyone else knows.

If you're discussing the American Revolution, you really don't need to know who George Washington was. It's enough to just say that there was a bad country that bossed us around--not sure exactly which one--and we declared independence from them at some point a long time ago.

Lol! Thank you. I needed that laugh!

[Anonymous]

It’s clear the many of the posters on this thread went to a mediocre school like the one OP mentioned.

GOOD schools teach critical thinking and analysis first, and in doing so, they indirectly and inherently teach the facts as well. They use case studies, projects, etc. People who went to GOOD schools know how it’s done.

Simply telling kids to memorize facts for the sake of and so that they can “talk about things” is pathetic and sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear the many of the posters on this thread went to a mediocre school like the one OP mentioned.

GOOD schools teach critical thinking and analysis first, and in doing so, they indirectly and inherently teach the facts as well. They use case studies, projects, etc. People who went to GOOD schools know how it’s done.

Simply telling kids to memorize facts for the sake of and so that they can “talk about things” is pathetic and sad.

Who here said only memorize facts?

[Anonymous]

You probably should apply out to other area schools. Maybe try SSSA. You don’t sound like a fit for St. Mary’s. I complain about my child’s school too, but you seem downright bitter.

[Anonymous]

Do a deep dive into ED Hirsch and his Core Knowledge. Also read up on Robert Pondiscio's studies vis-a-vis base of knowledge and comprehension and also look into the Willingham book "Why Don't Students Like School." All will attest that content knowledge is the basis of comprehension and building of any thinking skills. You can't analyze what you don't know. Pouring content and knowledge into K-8 students is the most critical things schools will do for their future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do a deep dive into ED Hirsch and his Core Knowledge. Also read up on Robert Pondiscio's studies vis-a-vis base of knowledge and comprehension and also look into the Willingham book "Why Don't Students Like School." All will attest that content knowledge is the basis of comprehension and building of any thinking skills. You can't analyze what you don't know. Pouring content and knowledge into K-8 students is the most critical things schools will do for their future.

You assume that everything your "pour" in will magically stick, like filling up your fridge so you can pig out later.

Students learn to memorize, repeat on a quiz, and forget. Ask any junior or senior how much they remember about the courses they took in grades 6-10.

It will be very little in my experience. If nothing is done to connect the dots and engage the students in that sea of stuff, it will slosh in and slosh right out.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm- how then does an MD remember all the things they need to in order to treat a patient in the ER? They are not pulling out text books. They are not entering data into an EHR while going through the steps of ACLS.
Learning to remember things is a critical skill in K-8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm- how then does an MD remember all the things they need to in order to treat a patient in the ER? They are not pulling out text books. They are not entering data into an EHR while going through the steps of ACLS.
Learning to remember things is a critical skill in K-8.

Hmm, let's see, so you say that your tummy hurts? I'm not really sure what organs are in there, so excuse me while I look that up. Oh, and while I'm at it I need to look up all the different things that could happen to those organs. I see here that there's a something called a gall bladder. Not really sure what that is, but maybe that's it? Or perhaps it has something to do with these two intestines... Anyway, the book says I should send you to radiography. My buddy down there has a book about all the different machines they have. There's an X-ray and some giant donut-shaped thing, whatever that is. I sure hope he knows how to work it. Perhaps ChatGPT would know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, memorizing mundane and intricate facts is absolutely essential. Maybe one day they’ll invent something where kids can easily retrieve esoteric information at will, but until that day, rote memorization must be the focus over analysis and critical thinking.

It’s also a binary choice — rote memorization OR critical thinking. I understand why the school chose the former.

I can't think of any good reason for students to memorize mundane or intricate facts like when the Revolutionary War happened, what the Stamp Act was, when the Mexican-American War happened, and who was President during World War II. That's some pretty in-the-weeds stuff, and they could always just look it up on the internet.

I really can't tell if this post is supposed to be sarcastic or someone really thinks knowing basic American History is pointless? These aren't "in-the-weeds stuff". The Stamp Act is relevant to DC statehood argument - "no taxation to representation", understanding how tariffs and taxes work, and what led to the Revolutionary War happening. It is relevant to know when the American War started and to know about the French and Indian/ 7 Year War to understand the economic and political conditions that led to the Stamp Act.

I remember reading 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 and thought it was so outlandish that a society would never be like how these dystopian authors described. But my high school son recently read them and so I re-read parts of them and now see how true so much of it is.

“School is shortened, discipline relaxed, philosophies, histories, languages dropped, English and spelling gradually neglected, finally almost completely ignored. Life is immediate, the job counts, pleasure lies all about after work. Why learn anything save pressing buttons, pulling switches, fitting nuts and bolts?”

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

[Anonymous]

It’s not an either-or choice. Schools should be teaching BOTH facts AND application/critical thinking. It’s not hard to comprehend that.

Though of course, maybe you have to sacrifice critical thinking in order to accommodate mass, feast days, saintly families, student of the month, etc etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, memorizing mundane and intricate facts is absolutely essential. Maybe one day they’ll invent something where kids can easily retrieve esoteric information at will, but until that day, rote memorization must be the focus over analysis and critical thinking.

It’s also a binary choice — rote memorization OR critical thinking. I understand why the school chose the former.

I can't think of any good reason for students to memorize mundane or intricate facts like when the Revolutionary War happened, what the Stamp Act was, when the Mexican-American War happened, and who was President during World War II. That's some pretty in-the-weeds stuff, and they could always just look it up on the internet.

I really can't tell if this post is supposed to be sarcastic or someone really thinks knowing basic American History is pointless? These aren't "in-the-weeds stuff". The Stamp Act is relevant to DC statehood argument - "no taxation to representation", understanding how tariffs and taxes work, and what led to the Revolutionary War happening. It is relevant to know when the American War started and to know about the French and Indian/ 7 Year War to understand the economic and political conditions that led to the Stamp Act.

I remember reading 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 and thought it was so outlandish that a society would never be like how these dystopian authors described. But my high school son recently read them and so I re-read parts of them and now see how true so much of it is.

“School is shortened, discipline relaxed, philosophies, histories, languages dropped, English and spelling gradually neglected, finally almost completely ignored. Life is immediate, the job counts, pleasure lies all about after work. Why learn anything save pressing buttons, pulling switches, fitting nuts and bolts?”

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

I disagree. The students should really focus on talking about trends and using their critical thinking skills to discuss the American Revolution. This textbook-style learning, where you focus on learning facts like the Stamp Act and the French and Indian War is really uncreative and takes away from the students developing their own perspectives.

[Anonymous]

You gotta have some memorization going on - you can't critically think through history without context. Dates and facts remain important. You can critically think through a literature and English class but history?

I will say though Catholic schools are notorious for memorization. They teach a style that's heavy on knowledge aka facts v critical thinking which has to do with interpretation and application if information. While ideally you have both, my recollection from touring the Alex Catholic schools was that they were all generally focused on textbook and tons of knowledge - dates, events, etc. the basic tenants of Catholicism is tradition it's not progressivism so consider the culture of the institution. Why would you expect them to be into critical thinking in 7th grade history? Maybe 11th but at this point for sure they just want the kids to know 1000000 facts. I have friends with kids in other states who talk about their kids learning deep history but facts not critical thinking assignments. That's the DNA of Catholic school for ya'