Greek life tipping point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school and the vibe.

At Cornell, it dominates. At Vanderbilt, it dominates. At Duke, it's off campus, but it dominates social life/culture.

At Northwestern, it's growing. 3 more frats came back over the summer. Too much demand and not enough after the failed Abolish Greek Life movement.

I think social media (all those frat parties with big-name performers and the sorority dance/videos) has had an impact even at the most selective schools.

False. This is an old trope that outsiders persist in perpetuating. It might’ve been true in 1980. It is not the case today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am suspect of an 18 year old who states they are not interested in Greek life. What exposure have they had to the Greek system to form that opinion?

Their parents? Their siblings? The culture? And there are news stories like this every year. This is just the latest: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-m-fraternity-suspended-pending-investigation-hazing-allegations-rcna233196

I will say the experiences are very different between sororities and fraternities so categorizing it as "Greek Life" as a whole doesn't account for that. Sorority rush is a week of pain but after that the pledges are treated like queens. The fraternity pledgeship, after being invited to parties all summer or first of the year/semester, is hell and sometimes dangerous and a detriment to academics that first year. My 2 boys both pledged and then dropped after the first few weeks. They knew what they were getting into but it was more of a bait and switch than they wanted to deal with. They are doing great without it and still friends with many of the people they pledged with. I was in a sorority myself so I am not ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is more nuanced than you might think.

It's not necessarily what %age of the school that directly participates vs. how much of the overall social life revolves around Greek parties.

I think at UPenn like 25% participate, but there is always lots going on at the school and the City that the 75% that don't directly participate don't feel like their experience is significantly impacted. Also, many of the parties are generally open to all.

It seems like other schools perhaps in more remote locations may have similar direct membership, but the social scene is dominated by the Frats and Sororities.

I’ve heard it’s hard for Penn boys who aren’t Greek to get into parties after freshman year?

It is like that at many schools, not just Penn. Freshman year can be really hard socially for boys for multiple reasons. They get over it though.

[Anonymous]

Based on my very recent observation, i think greek participation numbers can be deceiving and i am a bit surprised. My kid just started at a medium size private university with an official number of around 20-25%. My kid says the 'social' kids all intend to rush. Greek is growing in popularity and also hard to track because of the number of 'unoffocial' off campus Greek groups. Yes, most kids don't join greek, but it's a bit more nuanced. Despite the diversity on campus, there seem to be social cliques and silos based on major, int'l kids, etc. My kid says despite it being a decent size school, she sees the same core group out all the time and the school feels pretty small socially. Not necessarily in a bad way but that was my concern of a slac, so I'm surprised about this at a mid size school...

[Anonymous]

Im old and went to a large public - majored in engineering. I was not Greek nor did I have an interest in it. My social circles were largely outside of it, though I had some acquaintances that pledged - very few engineering majors as I recall, but there were of course some. I wasn't into parties and large social events, so I personally didn't care. I had my own interests apart from that

My recollection and presumption is the idea of a school 'dominated' by Greek is probably tied to social bubbles. If you're in it or closely associated to those who are, it seems like a big deal. If you are outside those circles, you are in a different bubble where other things are deemed important. The only reason I would think it would matter would be FOMO. Wanting in but not a part of it for whatever reason. Even if have the campus is affiliated, the other half isn't. That's a lot of students charting a different path

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on my very recent observation, i think greek participation numbers can be deceiving and i am a bit surprised. My kid just started at a medium size private university with an official number of around 20-25%. My kid says the 'social' kids all intend to rush. Greek is growing in popularity and also hard to track because of the number of 'unoffocial' off campus Greek groups. Yes, most kids don't join greek, but it's a bit more nuanced. Despite the diversity on campus, there seem to be social cliques and silos based on major, int'l kids, etc. My kid says despite it being a decent size school, she sees the same core group out all the time and the school feels pretty small socially. Not necessarily in a bad way but that was my concern of a slac, so I'm surprised about this at a mid size school...

I totally agree with this.
It depends on what bucket you put yourself in BEFORE you go to school. How social, extroverted was your kid? What kinds of activities did they do on Fri and Sat nights.
You will know which "clan" your kid belongs in before rush.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Im old and went to a large public - majored in engineering. I was not Greek nor did I have an interest in it. My social circles were largely outside of it, though I had some acquaintances that pledged - very few engineering majors as I recall, but there were of course some. I wasn't into parties and large social events, so I personally didn't care. I had my own interests apart from that

My recollection and presumption is the idea of a school 'dominated' by Greek is probably tied to social bubbles. If you're in it or closely associated to those who are, it seems like a big deal. If you are outside those circles, you are in a different bubble where other things are deemed important. The only reason I would think it would matter would be FOMO. Wanting in but not a part of it for whatever reason. Even if have the campus is affiliated, the other half isn't. That's a lot of students charting a different path

How is an old person's experience relevant today? Have you seen social media? TikTok? Greek life is booming. The frat concerts themselves are insane productions with professional-quality staffing. The wrist bands (and their "distribution methods") are so different than your "recollection".
Not to be mean, but your experience is irrelevant and dated. Not helpful here.

[Anonymous]

Now that clamps desired by helicopter parents have reduced college activity to 6th grade daycamp activities ..why join a frat. For that manner, why not do 90 percent of college online at home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im old and went to a large public - majored in engineering. I was not Greek nor did I have an interest in it. My social circles were largely outside of it, though I had some acquaintances that pledged - very few engineering majors as I recall, but there were of course some. I wasn't into parties and large social events, so I personally didn't care. I had my own interests apart from that

My recollection and presumption is the idea of a school 'dominated' by Greek is probably tied to social bubbles. If you're in it or closely associated to those who are, it seems like a big deal. If you are outside those circles, you are in a different bubble where other things are deemed important. The only reason I would think it would matter would be FOMO. Wanting in but not a part of it for whatever reason. Even if have the campus is affiliated, the other half isn't. That's a lot of students charting a different path

How is an old person's experience relevant today? Have you seen social media? TikTok? Greek life is booming. The frat concerts themselves are insane productions with professional-quality staffing. The wrist bands (and their "distribution methods") are so different than your "recollection".
Not to be mean, but your experience is irrelevant and dated. Not helpful here.

Not my point. My point was that these exist in social circles. Bands, Comic Books/Media, Gaming/E-Sports, Dance, Theatre. Sometimes these don't. Whether you talking 70 years, 20 years, 15 years, or yesterday the importance of a thing or lack thereof exist within circles that care about it.

You look at social media, TikTok Instagram, a lot of things are 'booming' in you track those circles. Cosplay is 'booming'. K-Pop is 'booming'. It's all about what you care about. So a kid can find their place Greek or not in an environment that is 30% Greek. Thats my point.

[Anonymous]

^ "Sometimes these circle overlap, sometimes these don't" - somehow accidentally deleted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am suspect of an 18 year old who states they are not interested in Greek life. What exposure have they had to the Greek system to form that opinion?

Why are you suspicious of kids who say they aren't interested but not of kids who say they are?

[Anonymous]

For OP: I think the question you and your DD have to ask yourselves is what is she looking for in a social scene. If a DC is looking to spend a sizable portion of their social time going to large parties with alcohol available, then yes, fraternities will often dominate that scene. If for whatever reason, it's important for her to both consider and be at the top of a perceived traditional social hierarchy, then look into sorority affiliation at schools that interest her.

But my experience with kids at two Greek-heavy schools is that there are plenty of other social scenes at larger schools, and if the reason your DD doesn't want to go Greek is because she enjoys other types of socializing, then she likely will find that as well. Have her focus on figuring out what social life would make her happy and seeing if kids with similar interests thrive at that school.

[Anonymous]

13:31 here: To clarify -- I'm not suggesting social hierarchy is the reason TO join. Merely saying that if someone is opposed to greek schools because they don't want to feel like they are lesser, then they may want to avoid greek schools. But in my view, that's on them, not on the Greek system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Now that clamps desired by helicopter parents have reduced college activity to 6th grade daycamp activities ..why join a frat. For that manner, why not do 90 percent of college online at home?

I literally can’t follow this. Clamps? Is that a typo? What do you mean by clamps? What do you mean by college activity is reduced to 6th grade day camp activity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For OP: I think the question you and your DD have to ask yourselves is what is she looking for in a social scene. If a DC is looking to spend a sizable portion of their social time going to large parties with alcohol available, then yes, fraternities will often dominate that scene. If for whatever reason, it's important for her to both consider and be at the top of a perceived traditional social hierarchy, then look into sorority affiliation at schools that interest her.

But my experience with kids at two Greek-heavy schools is that there are plenty of other social scenes at larger schools, and if the reason your DD doesn't want to go Greek is because she enjoys other types of socializing, then she likely will find that as well. Have her focus on figuring out what social life would make her happy and seeing if kids with similar interests thrive at that school.

This is exactly it. If your kid wants to do the very traditional college social stuff (I did it and absolutely zero wrong with it) of going to parties and drinking underage, the greek system is where it's at. And yes, if a person values and believes the social pecking order of the sororities/fraternities, it can be social prestige.

If your kid is not into any of the above, it won't matter at all. Many, many kids will be there with them.

But to think you're going to go to one of these campuses and party and drink underage and go to a formal with a cute dress on or be the date of the girl with the cute dress on and post it on your instagram without being in the Greek system? Harder.