If you're hoping for Ivies/top schools, what should be your ED or EA strategy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who has no clue what she wants to do or where she wants to go. She's very good at everything except sports (but does have one recreational sport activity): has quantifiable achievements in performing arts, drawing/painting, writing, outside of school, has a small part-time job showing leadership, and is in all advanced classes in school with currently the max GPA that it's possible to have in her school system. She's particularly accelerated in math, and will take a class at a college nearby because she will run out of math classes in school. I am acutely aware that Ivies and assimilated each have a different vibe, and that they are almost impossible to get in. Her less high-achieving older siblings wanted very specific majors and got into their preferred schools, which are not top 10. But she doesn't have a specific major in mind, and so I'm thinking - maybe try a really prestigious school, so that she can have options once she's there?

What would you do to maximize her chances of getting into one of those in terms of ED or restricted EA, as well as having nice fallback options with a lot of majors she could look at? I'm thinking not SLACs, as they might not have enough options, but maybe I'm wrong?

Finances are not an issue. We have no hooks.

This will only hurt her chances; it’s nothing special. Drawing/painting or performing arts might be. But it seems she might not be pointy enough in that respect to craft a singular narrative.

Such a well-rounded kid is probably better for SLACs. Certainly would not recommend an SCEA app.

OP here. Really? She'd be looking for a class beyond multivariable calculus/calc 3, since that is the last class offered at her school.

I think the lack of direction is the bigger issue when it comes to top 20 schools. Which is obviously unfair. What 18 year old knows what they are supposed to do? But the better schools are always cultivating and curating their classes and putting applicants into boxes. And there's no box here. I'd suggest looking into the honors programs at state flagships and SLACs, which are pretty good options for high stats generalists.

Regarding math, maximizing what's available at your high school is what matters. The rigamarole of going to community college really isn't worth the opportunity cost. From a college admissions perspective, it'd be better to use that time to develop some compelling ECs. But if you just want to use the stats, the Canadian universities are good for that - Toronto, McGill, UBC, Waterloo, Queens - all excellent options for the high stats applicants.

This kid is not S or M material. Also, not P. Way too generalist/high achiever/well-rounded.

You need to reframe it all and apply to schools that reward interdisciplinary intellectual curiosity over narrow spikes (e.g., Yale, Northwestern, Brown). Being "good at everything" is an asset at these schools, which value "renaissance" students. She sees the math in her art and the art in her math (she literally applies knowledge from one area to solve problems in another - not just that she's good at both things separately.)

She should apply undeclared or undecided, or to programs designed for this:

Yale: Humanities + Applied Math
Brown: Open Curriculum is perfect for interdisc exploration
Northwestern: Humanities + Math

Reaches: Yale REA, Harvard, Brown, Northwestern, Columbia
Matches: Middlebury, Wesleyan, Vassar, Tufts
Safeties: Strong honors colleges (UVM Honors, etc.)

It would be great, though, if she could provide evidence of how she finds patterns or connections across disciplines (maybe she already has that in her ECs). If not, she might want to CREATE something this summer that demonstrates this connectivity:

- Could be a cross-disciplinary creative project (some sort of art that uses math or data; some type of math art exhibit, or writing mathematical stories for kids?)
- She might teach or mentor over the summer, which shows this connection (by creating a math + art camp/program or tutoring math students using art, or other types of local volunteering in this space?)
- Does she have time to do a research project on the mathematics in renaissance (or other period) art? That could be an amazing connection!

Any way that she can connect the two should result in something physical or tangible that she can add to the EC list or the additional info section of the application (art portfolio, exhibition, published work, or some sort of program she created).

This makes her a more cohesive candidate, who makes "sense". However, if it doesn't feel authentic to her, then it's the wrong narrative. She should do some introspection to see if she can see the thread line connecting her interests.

OP here. Thank you, that's such an interesting way to think about it! I did not know certain Ivies looked for pointy kids and certain were OK with non-pointy.

Her part-time job is tutoring beginners in violin, in which she is quite proficient. I am a little wary of the violin/math/Asian combo. She has an Asian last name. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Thank to everyone else who responded too. Much food for thought.
To the other posters who asked, she's doing more math because she likes it, BUT she has always hated math competitions and doesn't do them.

That's me you are responding to. Gladd it was hepful!

The Asian violin/math thing is only a problem if that's her whole story. But it's not. Or at least it shouldn't be.

Ask her - is she the kid who sees patterns everywhere - in her paintings, in music, in equations? If so, then the violin tutoring isn't just about playing an instrument well. It's actually supporting evidence that she thinks about how people learn differently, which connects to everything else she does.

The fact that she hates math competitions actually might help her. Many Asian math kids do competitions. She doesn't, because she's more interested in using math to understand other things than solving problems for prizes. That's different. Use that. Lean into her difference rather than trying to make her a math kid.

A supp essay could be about exactly that: why she skips the math competitions that everyone expects her to love. Maybe she finds more beauty in figuring out the mathematical relationships in a Bach piece she's teaching a kid, or in understanding why certain color combinations work in her art, or something else. This all requires her to think about the CONNECTIONS.

The violin/math combination starts to make sense when it's part of a bigger story about someone who searches for connections between things that might seem unrelated. That's not a stereotype - that could be just how her brain works.

The tutoring shows she's already teaching people to see these connections, too. Frame that as leadership, not just another activity. It's all about thinking about the VALUES you want to showcase in your ECs and essays.

Do the introspection work first.

Also, for Asian kids, I highly recommend some sort of quirky EC that shows personality/texture on the EC list. Her art may be enough. But list them all out (more than 10) so you can help her see them all and understand the picture she is painting of herself to the AO.

DP. This is very helpful. I think you are the same CC or one of CCs who provided advices to me a few months ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RD

My kid didn’t SCEA or ED to any. We figured that round is athletes/legacy/URM/donors, etc. Skews the numbers.

Admitted to 2, WL to 1 during RD round.

Similar. Admitted to 5 T15/ivy in RD, WL to 4 others. True top kids get in.

[Anonymous]

Op, start by looking at where your high school sends kids like your daughter (i.e. at top of the class). Certain colleges like certain high schools and if she truly has few preferences, it makes sense to go with the feeder patterns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who has no clue what she wants to do or where she wants to go. She's very good at everything except sports (but does have one recreational sport activity): has quantifiable achievements in performing arts, drawing/painting, writing, outside of school, has a small part-time job showing leadership, and is in all advanced classes in school with currently the max GPA that it's possible to have in her school system. She's particularly accelerated in math, and will take a class at a college nearby because she will run out of math classes in school. I am acutely aware that Ivies and assimilated each have a different vibe, and that they are almost impossible to get in. Her less high-achieving older siblings wanted very specific majors and got into their preferred schools, which are not top 10. But she doesn't have a specific major in mind, and so I'm thinking - maybe try a really prestigious school, so that she can have options once she's there?

What would you do to maximize her chances of getting into one of those in terms of ED or restricted EA, as well as having nice fallback options with a lot of majors she could look at? I'm thinking not SLACs, as they might not have enough options, but maybe I'm wrong?

Finances are not an issue. We have no hooks.

This will only hurt her chances; it’s nothing special. Drawing/painting or performing arts might be. But it seems she might not be pointy enough in that respect to craft a singular narrative.

Such a well-rounded kid is probably better for SLACs. Certainly would not recommend an SCEA app.

OP here. Really? She'd be looking for a class beyond multivariable calculus/calc 3, since that is the last class offered at her school.

Well, being a math major is going to be tougher in general (or worse, a potential CS or Econ major; a double major will more or less be expected in any event). If she is already taking those courses, that is how she is going to be perceived. Nothing wrong with that. Might as well say that is the direction she is going but wants to participate in performing arts etc. in college.

I don’t recommend unhooked kids, especially STEM-looking ones (and this is how she will look) apply SCEA, period. Choose a non-SCEA Ivy for ED or a SLAC that 1) will have enough math and 2) will not be a disadvantage ED (Williams and Amherst are disadvantages).

OP here. Thanks for your information. Is it that there are too many mathy kids applying early? My older kids were not mathy
Why are Williams and Amherst not conducive to ED?

Too many athletes (30-40% of entire first year class) and first gen institutional priorities accepted ED — no more room at the inn.
STEM is a tougher admit generally, even for a female.

+1 confirmed. In the field. Other than pure physics, there are too many stem females these days compared to humanities females. Top schools balance males and females so females only compete against each other. Women in STEM is great but it caused a large surge in Females applying to Engineering iand CS about 5 years ago that has only gotten worse. Add that to the female-heavy premed/Bio crew and it is clear that for females (and males) those with true interest in humanities or arts have a much easier time in admissions, all else being equal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

You will have kids who didn’t get accepted to ivies in the first round competing in ED2 so much less chance to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

You will have kids who didn’t get accepted to ivies in the first round competing in ED2 so much less chance to get in.

This profile + full pay + ED2 is 100% getting into Chicago ED2.

But don't get scared into locking into Chicago. Hold out for RD where she will have many great options.

FWIW, the kid this year who got in EVERYWHERE- I mean - 18/18 applications accepted including several HYPSM - was an Asian girl who played violin, potential bio+music double major.

[Anonymous]

OP - it sounds like your kid should take a close look at Brown/RISD for math/art combo.

Brown gives a pretty decent bump for ED!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I strongly advise you to get off this website and hire an actual admissions consultant who knows what they’re talking about. Here you will just have one poster after another telling you your kid doesn’t have a chance. They don’t want your daughter to get into one of those schools.

Huh? Most ppl think her kid has a shot?
With a ton of detailed advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

You will have kids who didn’t get accepted to ivies in the first round competing in ED2 so much less chance to get in.

This profile + full pay + ED2 is 100% getting into Chicago ED2.

But don't get scared into locking into Chicago. Hold out for RD where she will have many great options.

FWIW, the kid this year who got in EVERYWHERE- I mean - 18/18 applications accepted including several HYPSM - was an Asian girl who played violin, potential bio+music double major.

I agree with this.
Op - have your DD focus on her essays!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, start by looking at where your high school sends kids like your daughter (i.e. at top of the class). Certain colleges like certain high schools and if she truly has few preferences, it makes sense to go with the feeder patterns.

This is the most important part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is applying to Williams ED really a disadvantage for an unhooked kid? Mine loves it and really wants to apply early and be (hopefully) done. But not FGLI and not recruited athlete. Is it really a wasted application?

What does your schools data say? Does Williams ever pick kids from your HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who has no clue what she wants to do or where she wants to go. She's very good at everything except sports (but does have one recreational sport activity): has quantifiable achievements in performing arts, drawing/painting, writing, outside of school, has a small part-time job showing leadership, and is in all advanced classes in school with currently the max GPA that it's possible to have in her school system. She's particularly accelerated in math, and will take a class at a college nearby because she will run out of math classes in school. I am acutely aware that Ivies and assimilated each have a different vibe, and that they are almost impossible to get in. Her less high-achieving older siblings wanted very specific majors and got into their preferred schools, which are not top 10. But she doesn't have a specific major in mind, and so I'm thinking - maybe try a really prestigious school, so that she can have options once she's there?

What would you do to maximize her chances of getting into one of those in terms of ED or restricted EA, as well as having nice fallback options with a lot of majors she could look at? I'm thinking not SLACs, as they might not have enough options, but maybe I'm wrong?

Finances are not an issue. We have no hooks.

This will only hurt her chances; it’s nothing special. Drawing/painting or performing arts might be. But it seems she might not be pointy enough in that respect to craft a singular narrative.

Such a well-rounded kid is probably better for SLACs. Certainly would not recommend an SCEA app.

OP here. Really? She'd be looking for a class beyond multivariable calculus/calc 3, since that is the last class offered at her school.

I think the lack of direction is the bigger issue when it comes to top 20 schools. Which is obviously unfair. What 18 year old knows what they are supposed to do? But the better schools are always cultivating and curating their classes and putting applicants into boxes. And there's no box here. I'd suggest looking into the honors programs at state flagships and SLACs, which are pretty good options for high stats generalists.

Regarding math, maximizing what's available at your high school is what matters. The rigamarole of going to community college really isn't worth the opportunity cost. From a college admissions perspective, it'd be better to use that time to develop some compelling ECs. But if you just want to use the stats, the Canadian universities are good for that - Toronto, McGill, UBC, Waterloo, Queens - all excellent options for the high stats applicants.

This kid is not S or M material. Also, not P. Way too generalist/high achiever/well-rounded.

You need to reframe it all and apply to schools that reward interdisciplinary intellectual curiosity over narrow spikes (e.g., Yale, Northwestern, Brown). Being "good at everything" is an asset at these schools, which value "renaissance" students. She sees the math in her art and the art in her math (she literally applies knowledge from one area to solve problems in another - not just that she's good at both things separately.)

She should apply undeclared or undecided, or to programs designed for this:

Yale: Humanities + Applied Math
Brown: Open Curriculum is perfect for interdisc exploration
Northwestern: Humanities + Math

Reaches: Yale REA, Harvard, Brown, Northwestern, Columbia
Matches: Middlebury, Wesleyan, Vassar, Tufts
Safeties: Strong honors colleges (UVM Honors, etc.)

It would be great, though, if she could provide evidence of how she finds patterns or connections across disciplines (maybe she already has that in her ECs). If not, she might want to CREATE something this summer that demonstrates this connectivity:

- Could be a cross-disciplinary creative project (some sort of art that uses math or data; some type of math art exhibit, or writing mathematical stories for kids?)
- She might teach or mentor over the summer, which shows this connection (by creating a math + art camp/program or tutoring math students using art, or other types of local volunteering in this space?)
- Does she have time to do a research project on the mathematics in renaissance (or other period) art? That could be an amazing connection!

Any way that she can connect the two should result in something physical or tangible that she can add to the EC list or the additional info section of the application (art portfolio, exhibition, published work, or some sort of program she created).

This makes her a more cohesive candidate, who makes "sense". However, if it doesn't feel authentic to her, then it's the wrong narrative. She should do some introspection to see if she can see the thread line connecting her interests.

New poster.

Great advice here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

At DD’s school, the ED2 competition with own classmates. The past cycle, all four kids that applied to UChicago were in top 10 percent of graduating class (of about 100 kids). Two kids got in ED1, and only one of the two ED2 students (deferred/rejected from Yale and UPenn) were accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uchicago? I think kids with your DD profile have a chance if apply ED1

Never waste an ED1 on UChicago! ED2 only. or EA, and wait for them to call you (basically ED3)

At DD’s school, the ED2 competition with own classmates. The past cycle, all four kids that applied to UChicago were in top 10 percent of graduating class (of about 100 kids). Two kids got in ED1, and only one of the two ED2 students (deferred/rejected from Yale and UPenn) were accepted.

Where did the other ED2 student end up?