ATTN: Biglaw people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a first-year equity partner (at a firm with no non-equity partnership) and anticipate around a million in my first year. I actually have no idea what the progression in draw looks like.

Careful now. There aren’t too many one tier partnerships left. You don’t want to out yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.2 last year as a 3rd year, expecting >4.5 this year.

A 40% bump? Must be some part eat what you kill then, no?

Partially. Share price increased this year, and I got a double class year bump in shares last year. Last year book vs 2023 was up around 50%, and this year is about 20% up from that. Who knows if it will continue this way with all of the market uncertainty, but it’s been busy. Also a potential flight risk given practice group and other firms history of poaching with substantial offers and I know management takes that into account when allocating shares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

Is there a better descriptor than just "one of the top most prestigious firms"?

Yes, refer to the Amlaw!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

Is there a better descriptor than just "one of the top most prestigious firms"?

Yes, refer to the Amlaw!

Ok well this firm is also an Amlaw top 10 (if that's the right phrasing)

[Anonymous]

OP -- it sounds like you aren't a lawyer (or if you are, not familiar with law firm partnerships) because no one outside of law students uses vault rankings to describe a firm. How do you know that the partner is an equity partner? It makes a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP -- it sounds like you aren't a lawyer (or if you are, not familiar with law firm partnerships) because no one outside of law students uses vault rankings to describe a firm. How do you know that the partner is an equity partner? It makes a big difference.

Nope, not a lawyer. They told me they're an equity partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

[Anonymous]

I am an NEP at an AmLaw10. The lowest rung of our equity partners makes 1.7m (and NEPs are capped at a few hundred below that). What a fourth year EP makes depends on their originations -- some are stuck below 2m, most would be floating in 2-3m, and some drastically increase their number of units and would clear 3-4m. Our 4-20m partners are mostly laterals who have been EPs elsewhere for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m expecting some NEP partner offers (coming from govt) at firms where I’m thinking offers are going to be in the 400-500 range. What I’m unclear on is how I’m compensated as I start to bring in business. These are not wat what you kill firms - there’s some sort of credit sharing that goes on - but if I’m bringing in matters would that increase my take home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m expecting some NEP partner offers (coming from govt) at firms where I’m thinking offers are going to be in the 400-500 range. What I’m unclear on is how I’m compensated as I start to bring in business. These are not wat what you kill firms - there’s some sort of credit sharing that goes on - but if I’m bringing in matters would that increase my take home?

If you’re looking at slightly lower tier firms (because all higher ranked amlaw firms are eat what you kill comp on some level) then I don’t think you’ll be offered that range coming from govt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m expecting some NEP partner offers (coming from govt) at firms where I’m thinking offers are going to be in the 400-500 range. What I’m unclear on is how I’m compensated as I start to bring in business. These are not wat what you kill firms - there’s some sort of credit sharing that goes on - but if I’m bringing in matters would that increase my take home?

If you’re looking at slightly lower tier firms (because all higher ranked amlaw firms are eat what you kill comp on some level) then I don’t think you’ll be offered that range coming from govt

You think an am law 30-70 range firm is going to offer me a NEP at less than what an 8th year associate makes? Genuinely asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m the poster who used that term. It means you’re not a rainmaker but you have an exceptionally valuable legal skill set that can’t be replaced easily, and the rainmakers desperately need you on their matters. In that case, you’ll get paid more than run of the mill non equity partners who have a generic skill set. Note that all partners think they have a valuable skill set, merely because they do a needed function. Think a real estate lawyer who gets called to work a small piece of every m and a transaction. Yes, the rainmaker brings in work and needs to call the real estate lawyer on every deal. But…. If the real estate lawyer quit, there’d be like twenty other real estate lawyers at the same firm who could step in. If instead, the rainmaker specializes in bringing in a certain type of m and a work that all turns on an obscure part of the law, and there are only three lawyers in the us that know that obscure law and one of them works with the rainmaker - that’s a diamond cutter. If that lawyer left, there’s no one to fill their role and the rainmaker is no longer able to bring in business. If someone is leaving federal govt right now, they’re unlikely to get paid like a diamond cutter because they are literally one of thousands and have no experience in biglaw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m expecting some NEP partner offers (coming from govt) at firms where I’m thinking offers are going to be in the 400-500 range. What I’m unclear on is how I’m compensated as I start to bring in business. These are not wat what you kill firms - there’s some sort of credit sharing that goes on - but if I’m bringing in matters would that increase my take home?

If you’re looking at slightly lower tier firms (because all higher ranked amlaw firms are eat what you kill comp on some level) then I don’t think you’ll be offered that range coming from govt

You think an am law 30-70 range firm is going to offer me a NEP at less than what an 8th year associate makes? Genuinely asking.

Pre bonus yes.

Most laterals, esp from govt, are going to flounder and not make hours. They’re not going to promise you the comp of a 8th year associate making 2000 hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m expecting some NEP partner offers (coming from govt) at firms where I’m thinking offers are going to be in the 400-500 range. What I’m unclear on is how I’m compensated as I start to bring in business. These are not wat what you kill firms - there’s some sort of credit sharing that goes on - but if I’m bringing in matters would that increase my take home?

This is very firm-specific and these are questions you should be asking them. As a PP said, all firms are eat what you kill to some degree, but exactly how they calculate it all can be very different. For example some firms require all matters to have an originating partner (the most credit), and a managing partner (some credit and in some firms these two can’t be the same person). Some firms have complicated ways to split credit based on how the matter came in and which partners will do the work. You may have to really fight to get credit in some places, and it may be more automatic in others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only law students care about vault rankings. I don’t even know what mine is, but we are around amlaw 30. 4th yr ep could be anywhere from $1 to $5m. Largely dependent on book, though that’s not the only metric, and the way origination credits are tracked is a complicated and non-transparent thing

This. Am non equity partner at amlaw 25-ish.

Non equity comp starts around $400 or so (I could be off by $100k either way) to $1.3m. The starting non equity partners are at the low end, while those who are well liked, busy and within a few years of equity promotions are in the $700-850 range. Higher than that is for special cases like diamond cutters or partners with a lot of their own business.

Our equity partners have a guaranteed floor of something like $1.3 or $1.4. No one ever quite knows. From there, like the pp says, comp is a non transparent decision that ties to how many hours you directly work, how many hours you are the direct originator for (whether you work them or have someone else work them) and how many hours other partners split you in on their matters (acknowledging that you were a key driver in the bd on those matters). Comp for non equity starts low for a few years because they want to see a consistent upward growth trajectory. After a few years, most equity partners seem to be in the 2-3mm range. And after 5-10 years equity, I think that’s when you start to see some partners be super successful and that’s when the 3m and much more comp packages start. But that comp is completely tied to your business and hours and originations - direct or split.

Diamond cutters?

I’m the poster who used that term. It means you’re not a rainmaker but you have an exceptionally valuable legal skill set that can’t be replaced easily, and the rainmakers desperately need you on their matters. In that case, you’ll get paid more than run of the mill non equity partners who have a generic skill set. Note that all partners think they have a valuable skill set, merely because they do a needed function. Think a real estate lawyer who gets called to work a small piece of every m and a transaction. Yes, the rainmaker brings in work and needs to call the real estate lawyer on every deal. But…. If the real estate lawyer quit, there’d be like twenty other real estate lawyers at the same firm who could step in. If instead, the rainmaker specializes in bringing in a certain type of m and a work that all turns on an obscure part of the law, and there are only three lawyers in the us that know that obscure law and one of them works with the rainmaker - that’s a diamond cutter. If that lawyer left, there’s no one to fill their role and the rainmaker is no longer able to bring in business. If someone is leaving federal govt right now, they’re unlikely to get paid like a diamond cutter because they are literally one of thousands and have no experience in biglaw

Weird. I've been in biglaw 25 years, 15 as a partner, and have never heard that term before. We just call them specialists.