Looking for feedback on Downtown Silver Spring and Takoma Park area elementary schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Takoma Park ES principal was voted best principal in DC area by Washington Post last year. We moved to TKPK from DC two years ago and couldn’t be happier with TPES, Piney Branch ES, and TPMS. Both of our kids have thrived in their respective schools and we are very happy with the quality of teaching.

The TKPK schools are huge and not very community oriented. PBES suffers from only having grades 3-5 which means it’s tougher - no little ones to soften the kids up. There are 8-9 classes per grade. And the school building is a dump. And the principal uninspiring. Little natural light, hot, confusing layout, run down. It’s one of the most miserable school buildings I’ve ever been in. The good news is that there is a renovation or perhaps complete rebuild on the cards but they will mean bussing kids elsewhere while it happens. In the meantime, the plans are being hijacked by the usual older white TKPK demanding activist contingent who are insisting that any improvements to the building must continue to include a pool “for equity” and “The community”. The pool housed in PBES that is NOT used to teach kids to swim, doesn’t truly benefit the school at all and exacerbates existing over crowding by taking up space.

TPMS used to be excellent but since the current principal took over it’s been going down hill rapidly as she has pushed many staff to move on and driven a rift through the parent community. It’s still a great school, for now, but who knows just how much more she can screw it up, after all she’s managed a lot of missteps in just 3 years.

Wow that's super interesting about the pool- this was years ago now but I used to occasionally swim there when I lived close by. I always thought it was a bit random, espcially since the school itself didn't use it- there are other community pools close by (Montgomery college and the new aquatic center in DTSS). That space could be better utilized to benefit the students for sure.

To clarify, the school gets very minimal use if the PTA fundraises thousands of dollars for lifeguards. It’s not swim instruction though and it is about 4 sessions twice a year involving at most 15 mins in the pool each time. No one is taught to swim and yet the entitled older crowd in the community insist that the pool is essential because the lives of underprivileged children of color are saved because they learn to swim at school. They don’t. Non swimmers are made to stand in the shallow end. The “swim” units are a waste of time. Historically the pool is there because the city donated the land and asked for it, I believe. That was 55 years ago

That how the planetarium runs at Woodacres, the PTA built it so the school can't use it's funding to work it into the curriculum by assigning teachers. So the PTA steps in and uses contributions and parent volunteers staffs it. Still better than the better NW DC school PTA that damn near demand large multi-hundred dollar donations per kid to pay for school staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Takoma Park ES principal was voted best principal in DC area by Washington Post last year. We moved to TKPK from DC two years ago and couldn’t be happier with TPES, Piney Branch ES, and TPMS. Both of our kids have thrived in their respective schools and we are very happy with the quality of teaching.

The TKPK schools are huge and not very community oriented. PBES suffers from only having grades 3-5 which means it’s tougher - no little ones to soften the kids up. There are 8-9 classes per grade. And the school building is a dump. And the principal uninspiring. Little natural light, hot, confusing layout, run down. It’s one of the most miserable school buildings I’ve ever been in. The good news is that there is a renovation or perhaps complete rebuild on the cards but they will mean bussing kids elsewhere while it happens. In the meantime, the plans are being hijacked by the usual older white TKPK demanding activist contingent who are insisting that any improvements to the building must continue to include a pool “for equity” and “The community”. The pool housed in PBES that is NOT used to teach kids to swim, doesn’t truly benefit the school at all and exacerbates existing over crowding by taking up space.

TPMS used to be excellent but since the current principal took over it’s been going down hill rapidly as she has pushed many staff to move on and driven a rift through the parent community. It’s still a great school, for now, but who knows just how much more she can screw it up, after all she’s managed a lot of missteps in just 3 years.

Wow that's super interesting about the pool- this was years ago now but I used to occasionally swim there when I lived close by. I always thought it was a bit random, espcially since the school itself didn't use it- there are other community pools close by (Montgomery college and the new aquatic center in DTSS). That space could be better utilized to benefit the students for sure.

To clarify, the school gets very minimal use if the PTA fundraises thousands of dollars for lifeguards. It’s not swim instruction though and it is about 4 sessions twice a year involving at most 15 mins in the pool each time. No one is taught to swim and yet the entitled older crowd in the community insist that the pool is essential because the lives of underprivileged children of color are saved because they learn to swim at school. They don’t. Non swimmers are made to stand in the shallow end. The “swim” units are a waste of time. Historically the pool is there because the city donated the land and asked for it, I believe. That was 55 years ago

+1 If you look at the discourse around this on the listserve and FB group, it's NEVER low-income parents of color asking to keep the pool. It is always 60+ white Boomers. Parents would like more classrooms, not a pool their kids barely use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be in kindergarten next year. We are doing immersion but I did go to a new parent meeting at ESS elementary, our zone school. They are going to have 4 kindergarten classes. Of the teachers, 2 will be brand new, one is in their third year, and one has approx 10 years of experience. That really concerned me, especially since I believe teachers can't change schools until after their third year. I believe the principal isn't popular.

ESS does go tpms->Blair in all 4 boundary survey options which I was happy with.

I wouldn't worry about teachers merely because they're relatively new. Sometimes new teachers are excellent. Sometimes veteran teachers aren't.

I was the first one to post above that teacher turnover at ESS was a problem.

I agree new teachers can be great; my concern with ESS right now is the rate of turnover. They can't retain teachers from year to year at the moment, for whatever reason. This wasn't always true and hopefully it will settle. The current principal is unpopular. When we were at the school I couldn't exactly tell why the principal was unpopular, but it seems to be having a direct affect on teachers and that concerns me.

Just adding a different perspective and a word of support for the ESS president. I think highly of her as do every parent I have discussed this with so I think it's unfair to say she is unpopular.

She has been present at every school event I have attended. I saw her outside even on those frigid January mornings bundled up and outside greeting the kids as they entered the building. She really rolls up her sleeves and walks the walk.

All that said, she faces challenges satisfying the needs of a very diverse community- from families who need the free groceries the school distributes to demanding wealthier parents who have the time to weigh in on every aspect of the school.

I think the PTA does a veet good job supporting her- filling in gaps where possible like organizing activities and then fundraising to make those activities available for all. My post is less about comparing the school to others and more about responding to what I thought was an unfair characterization of the individual who is the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child will be in kindergarten next year. We are doing immersion but I did go to a new parent meeting at ESS elementary, our zone school. They are going to have 4 kindergarten classes. Of the teachers, 2 will be brand new, one is in their third year, and one has approx 10 years of experience. That really concerned me, especially since I believe teachers can't change schools until after their third year. I believe the principal isn't popular.

ESS does go tpms->Blair in all 4 boundary survey options which I was happy with.

I wouldn't worry about teachers merely because they're relatively new. Sometimes new teachers are excellent. Sometimes veteran teachers aren't.

I was the first one to post above that teacher turnover at ESS was a problem.

I agree new teachers can be great; my concern with ESS right now is the rate of turnover. They can't retain teachers from year to year at the moment, for whatever reason. This wasn't always true and hopefully it will settle. The current principal is unpopular. When we were at the school I couldn't exactly tell why the principal was unpopular, but it seems to be having a direct affect on teachers and that concerns me.

Just adding a different perspective and a word of support for the ESS president. I think highly of her as do every parent I have discussed this with so I think it's unfair to say she is unpopular.

She has been present at every school event I have attended. I saw her outside even on those frigid January mornings bundled up and outside greeting the kids as they entered the building. She really rolls up her sleeves and walks the walk.

All that said, she faces challenges satisfying the needs of a very diverse community- from families who need the free groceries the school distributes to demanding wealthier parents who have the time to weigh in on every aspect of the school.

I think the PTA does a veet good job supporting her- filling in gaps where possible like organizing activities and then fundraising to make those activities available for all. My post is less about comparing the school to others and more about responding to what I thought was an unfair characterization of the individual who is the principal.

I am PP. I take your point. I think I also said above that I did not really know what was going on with teacher retention, and I should have stuck to that rather than commenting on the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary schools are all very similar, the only differences are the kids and the resources the parents bring to the table. A few of them have unique attributes built in to their curriculum like better fields/playgrounds, both dedicated gym/stages AND cafeterias and a few even have a pool or planetarium. Some have programs such as immersion or CES but those typically draw from outside their zones.

Focus on the peer group you want for your kids knowing it will be amplified at middle and more so high school and which resources are important to you. IMHO peer groups are almost as influential to child development as the parents. They will parent your child 8 hours a day and many times the child will care more about their opinions than yours.

Although IME the things you cite as differences can make a pretty big difference in the experience of a school.

I’ll also add that the current principal and ability to retain teachers can make a very big difference. You won’t be able to predict this very well long term, but this is an immediate term question. I wouldn’t recommend ESS right now, unfortunately. I’m not exactly sure what to expect for the coming school year, but the last couple of years, teachers have been leaving in droves. I would avoid the school for that reason.

Woodlin is about to be classified as a Focus school which will mean smaller classes. SCES and RCF both host immersion programs which can have pros and cons — the PTAs are large, involved, and well funded (especially compared to a school like ESS) but sometimes the immersion v academy divide can foster feelings of the haves v the have nots.

Takoma Park has a good reputation but is absolutely massive, for what that’s worth.

I agree they make a huge difference, its why I was hinting that they should be the OP's focus instead putting weight on random anonymous testimonials from people who think their house will go up in value if more people like their school. Rich PTAs, a culture that values education (and enforce it) and ample facilities make for a positive environment. Positive environments make staff appreciation more likely which in turns increases staff stability which empowers management to be more selective. It's all related. Schools with less can preserver and students can become problems at any income, but the ratios are what they are. No one would recommend New Hampshire Estates Elementary (which feeds Eastern and Blair) so everyone has a limit, serval of those schools are just a few clicks behind NHES.

Agree with what you're saying re: resourcing and a culture that values education contributes to a positive environment. With that in mind, are there any schools from the original list that are stronger in these areas than others? You mentioned that several of those schools are just a few clicks behind NHES; which ones would you put on that list?

Rosemary hills and highland view for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Takoma Park ES principal was voted best principal in DC area by Washington Post last year. We moved to TKPK from DC two years ago and couldn’t be happier with TPES, Piney Branch ES, and TPMS. Both of our kids have thrived in their respective schools and we are very happy with the quality of teaching.

The TKPK schools are huge and not very community oriented. PBES suffers from only having grades 3-5 which means it’s tougher - no little ones to soften the kids up. There are 8-9 classes per grade. And the school building is a dump. And the principal uninspiring. Little natural light, hot, confusing layout, run down. It’s one of the most miserable school buildings I’ve ever been in. The good news is that there is a renovation or perhaps complete rebuild on the cards but they will mean bussing kids elsewhere while it happens. In the meantime, the plans are being hijacked by the usual older white TKPK demanding activist contingent who are insisting that any improvements to the building must continue to include a pool “for equity” and “The community”. The pool housed in PBES that is NOT used to teach kids to swim, doesn’t truly benefit the school at all and exacerbates existing over crowding by taking up space.

TPMS used to be excellent but since the current principal took over it’s been going down hill rapidly as she has pushed many staff to move on and driven a rift through the parent community. It’s still a great school, for now, but who knows just how much more she can screw it up, after all she’s managed a lot of missteps in just 3 years.

You sure have an ax to grind on Takoma Park and PBES.

[Anonymous]

Do yourself a favor and do NOT buy inside the city limits of Takoma Park - highest city property tax rate in a county with high county property tax rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can you rent? If so, I would hold off on buying for a year when the boundary study will be resolved.

NP, I agree that you should rent for a year or two. If I were you, I'd try to rent near an elementary school where families really like the principal and the school retains same cohort of students K-5. I would also tour private schools because you will want to have a good idea of alternative options, particularly if you are concerned about screen use in schools.

Of the schools you mentioned, I think Takoma Park (TPES/Piney Branch) has the most stability for K-5 and is least likely to be assigned to new middle/high schools through the study currently underway. PPs mentioned downside of large size but I don't know of schools in MCPS that avoid that scenario.

My kids are in the BCC cluster, which includes Rock Creek Forest and Rosemary Hills. Rock Creek Forest will provide more stability through 5th grade but there is a split within the school (Spanish immersion and non-immersion kids go to different middle schools). Rosemary Hills (K-2) is very big and then splits into two schools for grades 3-5. Right now, Rock Creek Forest non-immersion students go to Silver Creek with Rosemary Hills students but the study underway includes options that would change that. Too soon to say how it will change but change appears inevitable.

I don’t have anything against TPES or PBES but aren’t they like 8-9 classes per grade? The other schools in the area are 4-5 classes. I guess the schools are overall around the same size since TPES/PBES are split, but aren’t the grades much larger?

[Anonymous]

New Hampshire Estates/Oak View have been excellent. They are both incredibly well run schools with great teacher snd and a high morale. They do include the lowest income area of SS and NHE is a Title 1 school. OV lost Title 1 status bc it houses the regional Center for Enriched Studies (entry by grades and test scores then lottery).

There are only a couple of SFH neighborhoods that feed into these schools but they are very strong communities where you get to know your neighbors and the kids meet at the park after school. Home prices in these neighborhoods are not as crazy as other areas.