Moving to London but salaries??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My main question is why does London have such lower salaries than NYC despite being equal in opportunities and supposed wealth ?

The same role at a Deloitte or Goldman Sachs in London office is getting paid comparably less than the NYC equivalent.

Part of it is that they don't need to earn as much because education and health care is cheaper.

An American attorney practicing in London could very well have several hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt. The Brits will have somewhere between zero and five figures. Brits don't have to save as much for health care, retirement, education, because the government subsidizes those more.

This has nothing to do with it. It’s simply the market. Besides if it did, the increase in housing expense more than makes up for what an American attorney is paying in health insurance premiums.

[Anonymous]

I lived in London for 6 years working for an American financial services firm whose name everyone on here will probably recognize.

For the first 2 years, I was on an expat package. It was cushy, I have to confess. Company pushed me off after 2 years, and for the last 4 was a "local". When I "localized", I was shocked by the drop in overall compensation. It was a mix of having the expat package, but also how low the local salary was. Other Americans felt the same.

Ergo, based on my limited sample set, salaries between London vs. NYC (for the same role) - definitely higher in NYC. So basically lower pay while paying more in taxes. Yes, it was still decent pay but overall there was definitely a drop versus what I made in the USA. At the very least there is a US/UK tax equalization treaty so you aren't double taxed.

London is a world class city. Anything you want, it's there. It can be expensive for sure, but you learn how to cut corners and to save cash here and there. You need to match your lifestyle to your comp, just as you would here.

Side note: no American that I knew ever, ever gave up their passport after 5 years. Comment above mentioning that is truly stupid. Don't do this. ("US immigrants to London"?? LOL) Many in fact get UK citizenship after a while and became dual citizens.

[Anonymous]

OP, out of curiosity - what industry/role/job etc?

I have a cousin working for a big tech firm in London, and his role with Europe/Middle East responsibility. He said it was a massive step up for him relative to a role in the USA with huge bump in comp to boot. His wife is a financial type investing in Europe, and she does well too.

I am somewhat jealous of their DINK lifestyle and endless travel opportunities they can enjoy from there

If you are a star, you will be paid that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only way to do London is via an expat package where your salary is grandfathered and you additionally receive a cost of living adjustment. Moving there on a local package and being paid local labor market wages is a dumb move. UK pays about 2/3 of the wage for a similar role in USA, it’s just how it is there. Healthcare is free. But specialists are difficult to find and poorly trained. Train system is built out but strikes that shut down the metro are common. Housing is just as expensive and the homes are smaller. Cars cost the same. Nearly all cars are diesel and it’s expensive. You’ll never ski again unless you can afford trips to the alps. Groceries cost the same once you factor in foreign currency xchange. You will never have a good steak, Mexican food or hamburger again. If you’re serious about moving prepare yourself and do the research. Most US immigrants to London give up US Citizenship in their 5th year or so - meaning you give up your US passport and the protections of US Embassies

Fantastically ill-informed nonsense from a genuine idiot. Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My main question is why does London have such lower salaries than NYC despite being equal in opportunities and supposed wealth ?

The same role at a Deloitte or Goldman Sachs in London office is getting paid comparably less than the NYC equivalent.

Part of it is that they don't need to earn as much because education and health care is cheaper.

An American attorney practicing in London could very well have several hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt. The Brits will have somewhere between zero and five figures. Brits don't have to save as much for health care, retirement, education, because the government subsidizes those more.

This has nothing to do with it. It’s simply the market. Besides if it did, the increase in housing expense more than makes up for what an American attorney is paying in health insurance premiums.

Interesting. I paid more in rent when I moved from London to DC but it was 10 years ago. Of course,!lots of Americans want to live in places like Chelsea and Kensington and those are super expensive places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My main question is why does London have such lower salaries than NYC despite being equal in opportunities and supposed wealth ?

The same role at a Deloitte or Goldman Sachs in London office is getting paid comparably less than the NYC equivalent.

Part of it is that they don't need to earn as much because education and health care is cheaper.

An American attorney practicing in London could very well have several hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt. The Brits will have somewhere between zero and five figures. Brits don't have to save as much for health care, retirement, education, because the government subsidizes those more.

This has nothing to do with it. It’s simply the market. Besides if it did, the increase in housing expense more than makes up for what an American attorney is paying in health insurance premiums.

Interesting. I paid more in rent when I moved from London to DC but it was 10 years ago. Of course,!lots of Americans want to live in places like Chelsea and Kensington and those are super expensive places.

This whole thread is people who travel a couple times a year and their Pret is more expensive and the hotel rooms are smaller.

I'm not saying London is perfect, and people do live in older homes more because it's a much older country but the idea that conversion to USD has much so impact when everything is relative to your own salary and COL in GBP is not a particularly helpful picture.

FWIW many other countries think US dependence on cars, petrol, and lack of transit is a big loss from a COL perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

+1
Middle class people live like LMC/working class here. Dh is British and MC and when we got married I moved to UK. Although I visited many times it didn't really sink in until I lived there. Everything is expensive and crappy and people just have a low standard for everything- food quality, service, clothing quality, crowds, cleanliness, just everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adult DS lives in London now, coming from DC and is shocked how cheap almost everything is. Notable exceptions are gas and heat.

But day to day things like groceries, clothing, toiletries, tickets to plays/concerts, alcohol, etc are much less. Medical care is essentially free. Rent is par for a like-kind neighborhood (though the flat itself isn’t as luxury, like PP said)

Uber is cheaper- I assume coming from NYC You wouldn’t try owning a car anyway.

The tax situation can be complicated, depending on whether you are an expert or a UK passport holder I am told that citizens of the UK pay a whole lot more in taxes than someone like my DS

Does your kid understand the conversion rate? GBP is stronger than USD ($1.25 usd equals 1 GBP). So it might seem cheaper but it really isn’t.

London is very expensive. Always has been.

When I travel there for business and stay in the business district (away from the tourist areas where everything is marked up), prices are typical city prices (like nyc)—which is still quite costly.

DP - how patronising. I’m sure this kid understands the exchange rate. I’m from London. Day to day items are cheaper (except utilities and gas). Real estate is more expensive per square foot, whether buying or renting. Of course there are cheaper and more expensive areas to live. Quality of life in the US is generally higher but not having to pay for health care, save for college, etc can make day to day living a lot cheaper. Even things like vacations can be done much cheaper than in the US, with cheap flights all around Europe, Airbnbs etc.

Groceries and clothing can be cheaper, but for good quality it is much more expensive. The bottom line is people don't save as much for retirement or college. Oh, and the cheap flights are basically like herding cattle in the sky. They are all gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be prepared for a tiny, old, far from luxurious existence. No car. No frills.

Americans are accustomed to an upper middle class lifestyle that is very different from the typical London lifestyle.

Don’t make the move unless you are ready to dramatically adjust your expectations.

Huh? I have plenty of friends with nice lifestyles in London.

"Nice lifestyle" in London is extremely expensive compared to the same thing here. It just is. You can get it, for a price

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

Yes, this.
But it’s easy to quickly adjust to that once you are surrounded by other people who don’t put a huge emphasis on material wealth, showroom furniture in their homes, or even extravagant homes and cars.

The pressure in the U.S. to live a $500K lifestyle on a $120K income is so great that we barely even realize we are all striving to have a quality of daily living that we really don’t need. We don’t NEED 6,000 square foot homes for four people. 2000square ft is more than plenty. But it’s difficult to accept that when our neighbors do not. In the UK, yes there are wealthy people, but the middle class is actually middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

+1
Middle class people live like LMC/working class here. Dh is British and MC and when we got married I moved to UK. Although I visited many times it didn't really sink in until I lived there. Everything is expensive and crappy and people just have a low standard for everything- food quality, service, clothing quality, crowds, cleanliness, just everything.

I think the problem is that many people have no real sense of what quality really is. If you like big cars, big fridges, big portions, then the US is clearly better. If you like quality tailoring, good wine, world-class restaurants, quality food, excellent holiday destinations, and fun people, then London is streets ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

+1
Middle class people live like LMC/working class here. Dh is British and MC and when we got married I moved to UK. Although I visited many times it didn't really sink in until I lived there. Everything is expensive and crappy and people just have a low standard for everything- food quality, service, clothing quality, crowds, cleanliness, just everything.

I found the same thing honestly when I moved from Texas to California in the late 90s.
At that time, a home that was worth $350K in California would not have been worth more than $80K in Texas. And likewise, someone in California could have sold that $350K 1100 square foot 3 bedroom 1 bath home and easily bought a 6-7 bedroom 5000 square foot home in Texas.
Things are more expensive in the UK, but my first impression when I see homes that regular people live in there is that it looks small and rundown and not nearly as nice as what you could get for your money in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

+1
Middle class people live like LMC/working class here. Dh is British and MC and when we got married I moved to UK. Although I visited many times it didn't really sink in until I lived there. Everything is expensive and crappy and people just have a low standard for everything- food quality, service, clothing quality, crowds, cleanliness, just everything.

I think the problem is that many people have no real sense of what quality really is. If you like big cars, big fridges, big portions, then the US is clearly better. If you like quality tailoring, good wine, world-class restaurants, quality food, excellent holiday destinations, and fun people, then London is streets ahead.

Yes and the point being that people in the UK will
Opt for the fine wine and quality tailoring and good food and will serve it to you in their too-small home that is cluttered and bit cramped. In the U.S., there is pressure to be house poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

Yes, this.
But it’s easy to quickly adjust to that once you are surrounded by other people who don’t put a huge emphasis on material wealth, showroom furniture in their homes, or even extravagant homes and cars.

The pressure in the U.S. to live a $500K lifestyle on a $120K income is so great that we barely even realize we are all striving to have a quality of daily living that we really don’t need. We don’t NEED 6,000 square foot homes for four people. 2000square ft is more than plenty. But it’s difficult to accept that when our neighbors do not. In the UK, yes there are wealthy people, but the middle class is actually middle class

It's cultural. In the UK people don't psychologically change classes they are born into. They are "keeping their place," "not getting above their station," "not trying to be posh," or "not putting on airs and graces".

They look sideways and down when comparing lifestyles. Americans only look up, as evidenced by DCUM that thinks $500k/yr is poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in the UK and was struck by the low standard of living- unless you come from money.

+1
Middle class people live like LMC/working class here. Dh is British and MC and when we got married I moved to UK. Although I visited many times it didn't really sink in until I lived there. Everything is expensive and crappy and people just have a low standard for everything- food quality, service, clothing quality, crowds, cleanliness, just everything.

I think the problem is that many people have no real sense of what quality really is. If you like big cars, big fridges, big portions, then the US is clearly better. If you like quality tailoring, good wine, world-class restaurants, quality food, excellent holiday destinations, and fun people, then London is streets ahead.

Quality tailoring? On whom? They don't even wear undershirts and the men's button are hanging on for dear life. Have you looked at how poorly fit their clothing is? It's a different style and cut, but it fits poorly. Wine, food, vacations etc is lower quality and grimy, mostly overrun with Brits tattooed on their very flesh exposed bodies (gross), in some cases flesh rolling over their hips and out of their untucked shirts.

The one thing we do agree on - the people can be a lot of fun. They seem to like to "have a laugh" and relax in ways that uptight Americans just can't do.