Kids at T5/T20 are competitive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has changed significantly since my time there, but yeah clubs at the school I went to are so competitive now and pre-professional, like tryouts to be part of the consulting club, or the investment club. In my day, the clubs were pretty relaxed and nobody cared about pre-professional clubs.

Freshmen are also WAY more intense because the recruiting cycle for jobs starts in your sophomore year fall.

Can you help me understand this? The recruiting for jobs start sophomore year? So, if a student falls short in that process, what does that mean? They never have a chance at a good job?
Sorry I’m so obtuse, I’m new to this mindset.

Companies come on campus and interview first-semester sophomores for summer intern positions (which will be completed after their junior year) that will likely turn into full time jobs (most of their full time class will be filled with former interns). That means right now they are extending offers for their 2027 entering employee class.

Yes, there are chances to fill additional spots later especially since not every former intern will accept and there are plenty of opportunities later on at places that are smaller, but the easiest way to land a job in certain places (like Goldman Sachs) is through sophomore recruiting. In this process, you are competing based on your resume after freshman year.

That means you need to start building your pre-professional resume the minute you step on campus with clubs (investment club, consulting club, etc.), many of which have competitive recruiting processes--you can't just join. And while the summer after freshman year used to be a time to geta summer job doing something like lifeguarding or retail (what I did at my T5), now it's a time to get some sort of real internship.

So you interview, are offered, and accept an internship fall of sophomore year but you don't actually do the internship until the summer after junior year, 1.5 years later? That's nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

Vanderbilt parent here. I’ve decided to post on every thread I see in an effort to dispel the myth that Vanderbilt is somehow less intense and more party than the other schools in its bracket. That could have been the case in 1985 — I wouldn’t know.

[Anonymous]

If you don't want competition, go to an LAC. It has been a very supportive environment for non-competitive DS. He didn't apply to HPYSM for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

Vanderbilt parent here. I’ve decided to post on every thread I see in an effort to dispel the myth that Vanderbilt is somehow less intense and more party than the other schools in its bracket. That could have been the case in 1985 — I wouldn’t know.

Keep up the good fight.

- Brown parent 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

Vanderbilt parent here. I’ve decided to post on every thread I see in an effort to dispel the myth that Vanderbilt is somehow less intense and more party than the other schools in its bracket. That could have been the case in 1985 — I wouldn’t know.

Keep up the good fight.

- Brown parent 😂

Ha. My kid’s BF is at Brown now and made themself literally ill from the intense process described upthread. Interview, land internship sophomore yr, position self the second you arrive on campus etc.

For these types of young adults, the prize for winning the pie eating contest is …. more pie!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

Vanderbilt parent here. I’ve decided to post on every thread I see in an effort to dispel the myth that Vanderbilt is somehow less intense and more party than the other schools in its bracket. That could have been the case in 1985 — I wouldn’t know.

Keep up the good fight.

- Brown parent 😂

Ha. My kid’s BF is at Brown now and made themself literally ill from the intense process described upthread. Interview, land internship sophomore yr, position self the second you arrive on campus etc.

For these types of young adults, the prize for winning the pie eating contest is …. more pie!

DC is at super competitive school. It is a rat race. I suppose it exposes them the rat race and and begins to prepare them for the rat race of life, but it is often a very competitive, very rejective experience. Try to go in there with some thick skin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides Harvard, all the T20 schools are pretty tough academically. Students even work hard at Brown. The phrase - the toughest part is getting in - is always used in reference to Harvard, no other school.

As for how stressful and competitive the overall environment is, that varies school by school. But none of these schools are totally chill. The students tend to demand a lot of themselves. But the most balanced schools seem to be Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, Yale, Notre Dame, and Northwestern.

Vanderbilt parent here. I’ve decided to post on every thread I see in an effort to dispel the myth that Vanderbilt is somehow less intense and more party than the other schools in its bracket. That could have been the case in 1985 — I wouldn’t know.

Keep up the good fight.

- Brown parent 😂

Ha. My kid’s BF is at Brown now and made themself literally ill from the intense process described upthread. Interview, land internship sophomore yr, position self the second you arrive on campus etc.

For these types of young adults, the prize for winning the pie eating contest is …. more pie!

Jokes aside, I think it’s important to get the message out there. Mine is doing well, but came in overconfident from a tough school. Plenty getting those first low grades that aspire for med/law/grad that would have slowed their roll and protected their gpa, but the “easy A” is parroted so much.

[Anonymous]

12:19 poster here. Genuinely curious why these bright young people are so intensely interested in consulting and banking. With parents having done both, DC wants nothing whatsoever to do with either!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:19 poster here. Genuinely curious why these bright young people are so intensely interested in consulting and banking. With parents having done both, DC wants nothing whatsoever to do with either!

Mine isn’t either, I assume money and any prestige associated with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:19 poster here. Genuinely curious why these bright young people are so intensely interested in consulting and banking. With parents having done both, DC wants nothing whatsoever to do with either!

A PP here. It’s all the big careers though. Mine is targeting law and their target law schools essentially require a 3.98+ to get a read. Plus the good internships and meaty LOR (which come from having done research for the prof which, you guessed it, a competitive gig to land. )

See also, medicine, fintech, FAANG, the Hill/White House, and probably other paths. It’s a long intense slog and college is just step 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:19 poster here. Genuinely curious why these bright young people are so intensely interested in consulting and banking. With parents having done both, DC wants nothing whatsoever to do with either!

It's also quant finance and certain tech companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always hear that the tough part is getting in and then it's easy. That doesn't seem to be the case for DD. She's at a T5 and the environment is intense. Getting in was step one, then it's the competition for the clubs etc. She has a good group of friends and is doing well but the pressure doesn't let up. Is this the case for all T5-10/20s because colleges are so preprofessional now? My friend's daughter went to Tufts and it was the same. She had a miserable college experience because she was always competing for the next internship. She landed a dream job post-graduation but paid the price during college.

I think this is less about T5/whatever and more about pre-professional kids. My T5 DC has no interest in competitive clubs like consulting so doesn’t experience what you’re talking about. Ironically (or perhaps not, lol), I worked at MBB and DH at a bulge bracket IB.

This is exactly my son's experience at a T5. He has no interest in pre-professional clubs ,and the clubs and activities he's joined are open to anyone.

By the way, students don't need to be in the pre-professional clubs to get job offers in the industries these clubs represent. I think that the frenzy to be part of these clubs is a carryover from their high school days when they thought that club leadership determined their future success. Instead, meaningful coursework, knowing how to interview well and previous job experience matter far more in securing coveted internships.