Math paths

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should talk to the current precalc teacher and see what is recommended. In many schools there is a decent sized group (15% of our school) who does MVC in 12th after BC in 11th. In other schools MVC in 12th is rare or nonexistent. If MVC is a normal path, and your kid is very good at math/ easily one of the top students in precal, and the teacher agrees BC next is where he should go, then do it. The teachers know the tracks best and where students fit best.

This. Teachers at my kid's school recommend the appropriate sequence based on a kid's performance in the current class.

Also, you might have your kid check with other students who have taken or are currently taking MV to get an idea of how difficult the teachers are and the grading system. My kid (currently in BC) notes that some kids come out of MV Calc nearly crying because of test grades, some in the 30s/40s. But it's graded on a curve and is fine for most kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Precalc is really hard, but Calc BC is super fun. It was one of my favorite classes ever especially if taken at the same time as a calc-based physics class. All the sudden you see how math models everything. So cool.

MVC is definitely easier than BC, especially as it's a semester long college class spread over a whole year. If Diff Eq is available, that's also easier than Calc BC and another option instead of MVC after BC.

I hope he doesn't let sucky precalc turn him off of advanced math. It gets better once you start calc.

MV Calc is 1 semester at many high schools.
https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/MAT2038A

Also, it’s hard. It’s a study of complicated 3 dimensional structures.

[Anonymous]

Make sure your school will allow students to take BC after AB. My kids' private does not (stupid policy IMO but they won't budge).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is helpful, but my senior is in MV this year and she and her friends have found it a lot easier than BC. It’s a semester long college course, so spread out over the year it’s “pretty chill” according to them.

Multivariable is typically easier than calc 2. It’s just calc 1 with 3 dimensions. My DS ranked it:

Precal > Calc 2>> Calc 3> Calc 1> Stats
Where > means harder. He says there’s a lot more difficulty in Calc 2, and his school’s precal course was just terribly difficult.

This is an accurate ranking. Pre-calc is the heart of HS math. When algebra 1 was taught to older students it was the hurdle, but now those topics have been put off until pre-calc. At the same time pre-calc is laying the theoretical groundwork for calc. Multivar is not three times the work, it's revisiting the simplest problems in more variables. Setting up the problem, is the solution.

For the same reason, schools really don't care about MV. Student's who don't make it to calculus probably won't catch up. Students who somehow take a break from math senior year, look weak. Beyond that it doesn't matter.

This person forgot the vector field part of multivariable calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and I should have said, he is not currently interested in pursuing a STEM field. So he certainly does not need MCV, but wants to show top rigor--or as close to it without taking MVC. Stats would of course be a step down from BC calc, but I like the idea of top rigor through 11th and then go from there. And if that means Stats for a non-STEM kid, so be it. His HS used to recommend AB-->BC for kids entering Calc in 11th, but now they seem to urge (top grades in earlier math classes) kids to go right to BC.

Oddly enough, this is true of both my kids' high schools, one public, one private, where previously they had AB as a fairly strict prerequisite to BC with rare exceptions. I wonder if something prompted this change more widely.

My current junior at a public was recommended to do BC junior year after AP precalc sophomore year, but does not have a particular interest in STEM and ended up choosing AB for junior year. Very busy, so he's glad he chose AB.

Back when this high school had AB as a prereq to BC, older sibling at the public took AB freshman year, BC sophomore year, AP stats junior year, MVC senior year (all As), is in a STEM major at a T10, and decided to retake MVC because he didn't feel like he learned enough in MVC in high school.

Meanwhile, STEM-ish sophomore at private was also recently recommended to do BC in junior year. Not sure what she will choose; years ago, older sibling at the same school crashed and burned in BC senior year after skipping AB, due to a multitude of factors, old teacher is no longer there. Mildly concerned that my sophomore tends to bite off more than she can chew time-wise and has a very time-consuming EC she will be a leader of junior year.

Overall the difference between AB and BC is two or three units. Many students forget the Ab content in BC and get 4s instead of 5s due to lost knowledge.

BC repeats and reviews almost all of AB. People who score low on BC (very few students score low on BC!) who also took AB are students who weren’t ready for calculus in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which of these two math paths would look better. I will start by saying I know (and my kid knows) that the most appealing option to colleges would be:

9th - Algebra II Honors
10th - AP Precalculus (where he is now)
11th - AP Calculus BC
12th - AP Multivariable Calculus

But he is starting to freak out about the idea of MV senior year. So he is considering:

11th grade - AP Calc AB
12th grade - AP Calc BC

Or:

11th grade - AP Calc BC
12th grade - AP Stats

Audit the senior year stuff and do it for exposure purposes, esp if it’s a strong teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is helpful, but my senior is in MV this year and she and her friends have found it a lot easier than BC. It’s a semester long college course, so spread out over the year it’s “pretty chill” according to them.

Multivariable is typically easier than calc 2. It’s just calc 1 with 3 dimensions. My DS ranked it:

Precal > Calc 2>> Calc 3> Calc 1> Stats
Where > means harder. He says there’s a lot more difficulty in Calc 2, and his school’s precal course was just terribly difficult.

MVC is a bit more than Calc with 3 variables. Div, grad, curl, line integrals, vector fields etc are more challenging. Most high school/DE MVC classes don't even get to Stokes' theorem and barely cover Gauss' law etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First and foremost, what does he want to do? Is he going into Engineering, Computer Science, Physics or Math major?

My firstborn did:
Honors Geo
Honors Alg2/Trig
Honors Precalc
AP Calc AB

and was accepted to Hopkins, 2 Ivies, Georgetown, UVA, WM, Williams.

My second born did:
Honors Geo
Adv Geo and Precalc
AP Precalc w/analysis
AP Calc

similar outcomes.

Did the second one do Calc AB or BC? The second one didn’t take any Algebra or Trig in high school?

Oops. The 2nd was in Honors alg2/trig first semester (year course) but he was getting 100s on everything so they bumped him into adv geo/precal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is helpful, but my senior is in MV this year and she and her friends have found it a lot easier than BC. It’s a semester long college course, so spread out over the year it’s “pretty chill” according to them.

Multivariable is typically easier than calc 2. It’s just calc 1 with 3 dimensions. My DS ranked it:

Precal > Calc 2>> Calc 3> Calc 1> Stats
Where > means harder. He says there’s a lot more difficulty in Calc 2, and his school’s precal course was just terribly difficult.

MVC is a bit more than Calc with 3 variables. Div, grad, curl, line integrals, vector fields etc are more challenging. Most high school/DE MVC classes don't even get to Stokes' theorem and barely cover Gauss' law etc.

I’m aware of this, but you can approach these topics in a vector calc class that’s proof based. If you’re really itching for more, you can take an E&M course and learn all about vector fields. DS’s calc 3 clas did Stokes and Green theorem, and his physics classes went over gauss’s law.

There’s a lot of mid calc 2 courses, but that doesn’t stop us from giving people credit for their 5s and going along to the next level.

[Anonymous]

AP Stats is a worthless class that most highly rejective schools dont care…..As long as you finish with BC, you are good to go at all schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP Stats is a worthless class that most highly rejective schools dont care…..As long as you finish with BC, you are good to go at all schools

Usually we back our statements with evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should talk to the current precalc teacher and see what is recommended. In many schools there is a decent sized group (15% of our school) who does MVC in 12th after BC in 11th. In other schools MVC in 12th is rare or nonexistent. If MVC is a normal path, and your kid is very good at math/ easily one of the top students in precal, and the teacher agrees BC next is where he should go, then do it. The teachers know the tracks best and where students fit best.

This. Teachers at my kid's school recommend the appropriate sequence based on a kid's performance in the current class.

Also, you might have your kid check with other students who have taken or are currently taking MV to get an idea of how difficult the teachers are and the grading system. My kid (currently in BC) notes that some kids come out of MV Calc nearly crying because of test grades, some in the 30s/40s. But it's graded on a curve and is fine for most kids.

MVC is hard if you're week in your Calc 1 or Calc 2 skills, or if you have poor spatial reasoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid should talk to the current precalc teacher and see what is recommended. In many schools there is a decent sized group (15% of our school) who does MVC in 12th after BC in 11th. In other schools MVC in 12th is rare or nonexistent. If MVC is a normal path, and your kid is very good at math/ easily one of the top students in precal, and the teacher agrees BC next is where he should go, then do it. The teachers know the tracks best and where students fit best.

This. Teachers at my kid's school recommend the appropriate sequence based on a kid's performance in the current class.

Also, you might have your kid check with other students who have taken or are currently taking MV to get an idea of how difficult the teachers are and the grading system. My kid (currently in BC) notes that some kids come out of MV Calc nearly crying because of test grades, some in the 30s/40s. But it's graded on a curve and is fine for most kids.

MVC is hard if you're week in your Calc 1 or Calc 2 skills, or if you have poor spatial reasoning.

*weak, darn autocorrect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the high school. It is fine to do AB and then BC if that is commonly done at his high school.

This^^^

At our HS, it's the recommended path. Rarely do they allow kids to go from PreCalc directly to BC. It's Precalc to AB, then onto BC where the AB portion is covered in 3 weeks as a review.
So the most advanced kids take BC their senior year. Our HS does not offer MVC.

BC is a hard course, and important material if your kid is going to use the Calculus for their major (Math/CS/Engineering) and require more advanced courses in college. Best to actually learn the material well than rush to a higher level math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Stats is a worthless class that most highly rejective schools dont care…..As long as you finish with BC, you are good to go at all schools

Usually we back our statements with evidence.

ma'am, this is a Wendy's