Jan. 9 BOE Business Meeting Discussion Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s easy to blame the teachers. It’s hard to try to solve the problem of 16 year olds who don’t know 7+4 without a calculator. Yet teachers are trying to teach them quadratic equations and logs. Also, many former LFI students are now diploma bound due to new guidance from MSDE. Many have IQs under 60 yet are still expected to learn these topics. The problem is so much deeper than teaching skills but MCPS refuses to address this time and time again.

A 16 year old who doesn't know 7+4 without a calculator got to that point because the system failed to teach them the basics in elementary school and socially promoted them instead. It's not because they innately have a low IQ. They received horrible or inadequate elementary education, so it's still MCPS's fault.

This is at the heart of the issue. I saw it myself with both of my kids. Instead of making sure that the kids had the foundational skills to be successful in upper level math classes, they just skirted that issue and moved them along. We spent a lot of money on math tutors and almost all of them said that the kids were missing foundational math skills. And I know this will be considered teacher bashing but the truth is that not everyone should be teaching math and the same for ELA yet most MCPS elementary schools don't departmentalize these subjects so teachers are expected to teach both math and ELA. All it takes is one year of poor math instruction in elementary school to have a domino effect all the way through high school.

+1. Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s easy to blame the teachers. It’s hard to try to solve the problem of 16 year olds who don’t know 7+4 without a calculator. Yet teachers are trying to teach them quadratic equations and logs. Also, many former LFI students are now diploma bound due to new guidance from MSDE. Many have IQs under 60 yet are still expected to learn these topics. The problem is so much deeper than teaching skills but MCPS refuses to address this time and time again.

A 16 year old who doesn't know 7+4 without a calculator got to that point because the system failed to teach them the basics in elementary school and socially promoted them instead. It's not because they innately have a low IQ. They received horrible or inadequate elementary education, so it's still MCPS's fault.

This is at the heart of the issue. I saw it myself with both of my kids. Instead of making sure that the kids had the foundational skills to be successful in upper level math classes, they just skirted that issue and moved them along. We spent a lot of money on math tutors and almost all of them said that the kids were missing foundational math skills. And I know this will be considered teacher bashing but the truth is that not everyone should be teaching math and the same for ELA yet most MCPS elementary schools don't departmentalize these subjects so teachers are expected to teach both math and ELA. All it takes is one year of poor math instruction in elementary school to have a domino effect all the way through high school.

You can easily teach your kids the basics yourself in elementary. When you need the tutoring is later in in HS as they don't have text books, a strong curriculum, or much else with the upper-level classes and some teachers are great and some teachers are meh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The part about student IDs for added safety and security. What is the plan to enforce this? I work at an MCPS HS and maybe 10% of students wear theirs. There are no consequences and they just say it’s lost or at home.

Also, speaking of consequences, the part about attendance. When will MCPS enforce some kind of attendance policy? I don’t except much progress with attendance until this goes back into effect.

Thats a principal issue, not an MCPS issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The part about student IDs for added safety and security. What is the plan to enforce this? I work at an MCPS HS and maybe 10% of students wear theirs. There are no consequences and they just say it’s lost or at home.

Also, speaking of consequences, the part about attendance. When will MCPS enforce some kind of attendance policy? I don’t except much progress with attendance until this goes back into effect.

There is no plan to enforce the ID policy systemically. They want individual principals and schools to figure it out.

Luckily for principals, there are no tangible criteria or measures of success, so you can do pretty much whatever you feel like doing and claim it as a win.

[Anonymous]

Was anyone else shocked to hear Chief Jones admit “Many people who don’t belong in our schools come in, those things happen sometimes on a daily basis”?

Seems like a soundbite that will be used in many lawsuits in the future.

[Anonymous]

Now I'm curious about what wasn't discussed. What was the "mistake purchase" and the issue with the vendors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part about student IDs for added safety and security. What is the plan to enforce this? I work at an MCPS HS and maybe 10% of students wear theirs. There are no consequences and they just say it’s lost or at home.

Also, speaking of consequences, the part about attendance. When will MCPS enforce some kind of attendance policy? I don’t except much progress with attendance until this goes back into effect.

There is no plan to enforce the ID policy systemically. They want individual principals and schools to figure it out.

Luckily for principals, there are no tangible criteria or measures of success, so you can do pretty much whatever you feel like doing and claim it as a win.

Yet principals want autonomy. So here is an opportunity to use said autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s easy to blame the teachers. It’s hard to try to solve the problem of 16 year olds who don’t know 7+4 without a calculator. Yet teachers are trying to teach them quadratic equations and logs. Also, many former LFI students are now diploma bound due to new guidance from MSDE. Many have IQs under 60 yet are still expected to learn these topics. The problem is so much deeper than teaching skills but MCPS refuses to address this time and time again.

A 16 year old who doesn't know 7+4 without a calculator got to that point because the system failed to teach them the basics in elementary school and socially promoted them instead. It's not because they innately have a low IQ. They received horrible or inadequate elementary education, so it's still MCPS's fault.

This is at the heart of the issue. I saw it myself with both of my kids. Instead of making sure that the kids had the foundational skills to be successful in upper level math classes, they just skirted that issue and moved them along. We spent a lot of money on math tutors and almost all of them said that the kids were missing foundational math skills. And I know this will be considered teacher bashing but the truth is that not everyone should be teaching math and the same for ELA yet most MCPS elementary schools don't departmentalize these subjects so teachers are expected to teach both math and ELA. All it takes is one year of poor math instruction in elementary school to have a domino effect all the way through high school.

+1. Well said.

Which is why most of the coaches are deployed to ES. The reality is most hardworking adults don’t understand math at a mastery level. The same is true for ES and many MS teachers. To successfully help students who are struggling or just taking longer to grasp a concept, requires the teacher to have a great understanding of the content such that they can explain it another way. Compound that with classrooms full of kids, some with LD’s or behavior challenges and it’s a recipe for disaster.

What someone needs to say is that the problem with Math and English are not going to be resolved until:

1) There are more people in the building dedicated to helping kids academically in K-2 across the county.

2) Kids can get in school support for documented LD’s and behavior challenges without parental sign off by license clinical psychologists and social workers and professionals trained to support like Special Education teachers, reading specialist, math specialist, etc.

3) We give little kids more time to move around, and much of it outdoors. This means recess and outdoor learning.

4) we acknowledge that teacher training programs need to become much more rigorous and in the interim plan for new teachers to need a great deal of training and support their first 1-3 and as such may make better assistant teachers and support staff as opposed to a full classroom teacher where they are more likely to burnout and quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they talk about the snow days and the calendar at all?

If you mean did they talk about how we'd decide how to make up the snow days with the allotted dates on our calendar? No. But they did use the "Things to Know" newsletter to address criticism around their decision to remain closed for a third day.

Maybe if they just ignore the problem it will go away.

This approach is so flawed. There are 12 central office instructional specialists which is a 1.8 million dollar line item. Having central office come in and tell staff how to plan is not the answer. Put the resources back in the schools! Also, why didn't they pull the MCAP data just for the schools they have been supporting. I'll tell you... because the "needle" is not moving. The BOE members asked good questions this time around. The head of the elementary math couldn't even answer what the barrier was for students. Her answer was advocating for more coaches. Self preservation. Also, no acknowledgment of the teachers, admin, or staff dev teachers who are in the buildings every day trying to meet the needs of the students. Just shows you how disconnected these departments are from what is needed in schools.
The Literacy part was equally a mess. The head of literacy said that "we don't teach to standards in reading." Really?? Also, she tried to ignore the MCAP data bc/ it's not a response to instruction? Thankfully, a BOE member called her on it. Considering it is how the state measures school success, you might want the head of literacy for MCPS to know that!
I'm tired of central office not using a standardized measure when presenting at these meetings. They selectively highlight data that seems like it shows progress. The choose schools that have a bump in growth for a moment in time, however, they never talk about long term progress or growth of a school using consistent measures. Also, if 75% of students are proficient on our own measures at these meetings end of second grade, however, now only 45% of those students are proficient on MCAP in third grade, then something is wrong.
Hopefully, Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by that performance and puts the resources back in schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they talk about the snow days and the calendar at all?

If you mean did they talk about how we'd decide how to make up the snow days with the allotted dates on our calendar? No. But they did use the "Things to Know" newsletter to address criticism around their decision to remain closed for a third day.

Maybe if they just ignore the problem it will go away.

This approach is so flawed. There are 12 central office instructional specialists which is a 1.8 million dollar line item. Having central office come in and tell staff how to plan is not the answer. Put the resources back in the schools! Also, why didn't they pull the MCAP data just for the schools they have been supporting. I'll tell you... because the "needle" is not moving. The BOE members asked good questions this time around. The head of the elementary math couldn't even answer what the barrier was for students. Her answer was advocating for more coaches. Self preservation. Also, no acknowledgment of the teachers, admin, or staff dev teachers who are in the buildings every day trying to meet the needs of the students. Just shows you how disconnected these departments are from what is needed in schools.
The Literacy part was equally a mess. The head of literacy said that "we don't teach to standards in reading." Really?? Also, she tried to ignore the MCAP data bc/ it's not a response to instruction? Thankfully, a BOE member called her on it. Considering it is how the state measures school success, you might want the head of literacy for MCPS to know that!
I'm tired of central office not using a standardized measure when presenting at these meetings. They selectively highlight data that seems like it shows progress. The choose schools that have a bump in growth for a moment in time, however, they never talk about long term progress or growth of a school using consistent measures. Also, if 75% of students are proficient on our own measures at these meetings end of second grade, however, now only 45% of those students are proficient on MCAP in third grade, then something is wrong.
Hopefully, Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by that performance and puts the resources back in schools.

Here’s hoping Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by the whole dog and pony show by the curriculum and school support and improvement folks. It was spectacularly lackluster, but there was a whole lot of ‘splaining going on! 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they talk about the snow days and the calendar at all?

If you mean did they talk about how we'd decide how to make up the snow days with the allotted dates on our calendar? No. But they did use the "Things to Know" newsletter to address criticism around their decision to remain closed for a third day.

Maybe if they just ignore the problem it will go away.

This approach is so flawed. There are 12 central office instructional specialists which is a 1.8 million dollar line item. Having central office come in and tell staff how to plan is not the answer. Put the resources back in the schools! Also, why didn't they pull the MCAP data just for the schools they have been supporting. I'll tell you... because the "needle" is not moving. The BOE members asked good questions this time around. The head of the elementary math couldn't even answer what the barrier was for students. Her answer was advocating for more coaches. Self preservation. Also, no acknowledgment of the teachers, admin, or staff dev teachers who are in the buildings every day trying to meet the needs of the students. Just shows you how disconnected these departments are from what is needed in schools.
The Literacy part was equally a mess. The head of literacy said that "we don't teach to standards in reading." Really?? Also, she tried to ignore the MCAP data bc/ it's not a response to instruction? Thankfully, a BOE member called her on it. Considering it is how the state measures school success, you might want the head of literacy for MCPS to know that!
I'm tired of central office not using a standardized measure when presenting at these meetings. They selectively highlight data that seems like it shows progress. The choose schools that have a bump in growth for a moment in time, however, they never talk about long term progress or growth of a school using consistent measures. Also, if 75% of students are proficient on our own measures at these meetings end of second grade, however, now only 45% of those students are proficient on MCAP in third grade, then something is wrong.
Hopefully, Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by that performance and puts the resources back in schools.

Here’s hoping Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by the whole dog and pony show by the curriculum and school support and improvement folks. It was spectacularly lackluster, but there was a whole lot of ‘splaining going on! 🙄

Have they ever shared the long/short term plans for the central office instructional specialists? What's the criteria that determines which schools they support? With over 200 schools, who decides which schools get this level of support from 12 people? What feedback is being collected from schools to determine their effectiveness? I agree that this doesn't seem to be the best use of funds considering schools have a math content coach or staff development teacher that are based in the school and know the needs of the school. I agree, put these resources back in the school, not more central office staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else shocked to hear Chief Jones admit “Many people who don’t belong in our schools come in, those things happen sometimes on a daily basis”?

Seems like a soundbite that will be used in many lawsuits in the future.

This right here is huge.

MCPS ie Wootton HS had a graduate come back to the school sit in classses for about 6 months maybe longer.

Not one staff member was fired when it was finally brought to light. Not only should the Principal have been fired AP psychologically teacher should have as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they talk about the snow days and the calendar at all?

If you mean did they talk about how we'd decide how to make up the snow days with the allotted dates on our calendar? No. But they did use the "Things to Know" newsletter to address criticism around their decision to remain closed for a third day.

Maybe if they just ignore the problem it will go away.

This approach is so flawed. There are 12 central office instructional specialists which is a 1.8 million dollar line item. Having central office come in and tell staff how to plan is not the answer. Put the resources back in the schools! Also, why didn't they pull the MCAP data just for the schools they have been supporting. I'll tell you... because the "needle" is not moving. The BOE members asked good questions this time around. The head of the elementary math couldn't even answer what the barrier was for students. Her answer was advocating for more coaches. Self preservation. Also, no acknowledgment of the teachers, admin, or staff dev teachers who are in the buildings every day trying to meet the needs of the students. Just shows you how disconnected these departments are from what is needed in schools.
The Literacy part was equally a mess. The head of literacy said that "we don't teach to standards in reading." Really?? Also, she tried to ignore the MCAP data bc/ it's not a response to instruction? Thankfully, a BOE member called her on it. Considering it is how the state measures school success, you might want the head of literacy for MCPS to know that!
I'm tired of central office not using a standardized measure when presenting at these meetings. They selectively highlight data that seems like it shows progress. The choose schools that have a bump in growth for a moment in time, however, they never talk about long term progress or growth of a school using consistent measures. Also, if 75% of students are proficient on our own measures at these meetings end of second grade, however, now only 45% of those students are proficient on MCAP in third grade, then something is wrong.
Hopefully, Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by that performance and puts the resources back in schools.

Here’s hoping Dr. Taylor was embarrassed by the whole dog and pony show by the curriculum and school support and improvement folks. It was spectacularly lackluster, but there was a whole lot of ‘splaining going on! 🙄

Dr. Taylor does not seem to be embarrassed by much. He’s busy defending the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone else shocked to hear Chief Jones admit “Many people who don’t belong in our schools come in, those things happen sometimes on a daily basis”?

Seems like a soundbite that will be used in many lawsuits in the future.

This right here is huge.

MCPS ie Wootton HS had a graduate come back to the school sit in classses for about 6 months maybe longer.

Not one staff member was fired when it was finally brought to light. Not only should the Principal have been fired AP psychologically teacher should have as well.

At Springbrook High School, I want to say two years ago?, a homeless man was able to walk through the main office into the building and no one in MCPS got in trouble for this clear failure. Instead, MCPS said main office would go through additional training on safety protocols and expectations.

Here’s the article with more details: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/maryland/springbrook-high-school-intruder-cited-trespassing-no-arrest-man-experiencing-homelessness/65-5f31e7a3-2019-48ee-a2d2-73e09cb2a35c

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part about student IDs for added safety and security. What is the plan to enforce this? I work at an MCPS HS and maybe 10% of students wear theirs. There are no consequences and they just say it’s lost or at home.

Also, speaking of consequences, the part about attendance. When will MCPS enforce some kind of attendance policy? I don’t except much progress with attendance until this goes back into effect.

There is no plan to enforce the ID policy systemically. They want individual principals and schools to figure it out.

Luckily for principals, there are no tangible criteria or measures of success, so you can do pretty much whatever you feel like doing and claim it as a win.

I guess, but doesn't everyone understand there's no way to actually enforce an ID requirement? It's such a waste of time, money, and effort.