IB English Curriculum vs “Honors English”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in the DCC with a middle schooler, and as we look at the course offerings at each school, I struggle to find one that has both strong STEM offerings and IB English. Am I missing something? Our home school, Einstein, has IB but no AP science classes.

We are finding the same too. Home school is Blair. My impression is that overall the English instruction is weak across the board unless in some type of special program. Math/Science seems to have more advanced options across several schools (not all - but several).

One thing to know is that "Honors for All" for high school English is relatively new, which means that concerted advocacy could probably get it changed. Up until last year, schools with IB programs were allowed to offer "Pre-IB English 9" and "Pre-IB English 10." Schools without IB were allowed to offer Honors English 9 and 10, which were cohorted and accelerated. This year's 10th graders are the first class that has to deal with those classes going away, but it does mean that a curriculum exists and could be brought back in a matter of months, should there be any political will behind it.

Honors could be required to simply use the most challenging texts and options from the new curriculum MCPS is writing. But MCPS doesn't want to do that. They are fine with supposed honors classes having below-grade level texts because they know it's not real honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Honors” English 9 & 10 are so bad. I teach in the county and there is no cohorting and you get really high fliers in the same class as kids who can barely read.

The idea is that a rising tide lifts all boats, right? And that smart kids benefit from the mixed ability classroom. But that isn’t the case. These classes often have behavioral issues too. Smart kids just keep their heads down until 11th when they take AP Lang which is just a teach to the test situation.

Unless your child gets into a magnet of some kind, English instruction in high school is grim AF for 9th and 10th.

The optics of cohorting are awful though- in a diverse school the on-level classes were full of black and brown kids with the occasional white kid and the accelerated classes were the reverse. That is not right and racial profiling happened and smart black kids got screwed. That isn’t fair.

You can always find ways to supplement math and science. Not so for English and writing.

We need to do better for our students in a way that doesn’t perpetuate racial profiling. I don’t have the answer but what we have now sucks. And what we had before was racist.

You can absolutely supplement in English and writing. AOPS has excellent English classes. We have an enrichment literature tutor who works with my kid on both analysis and writing. There are lots of grammar resources out there too.

But agree with you that this shouldn't be necessary. They need to provide better instruction in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Honors” English 9 & 10 are so bad. I teach in the county and there is no cohorting and you get really high fliers in the same class as kids who can barely read.

The idea is that a rising tide lifts all boats, right? And that smart kids benefit from the mixed ability classroom. But that isn’t the case. These classes often have behavioral issues too. Smart kids just keep their heads down until 11th when they take AP Lang which is just a teach to the test situation.

Unless your child gets into a magnet of some kind, English instruction in high school is grim AF for 9th and 10th.

The optics of cohorting are awful though- in a diverse school the on-level classes were full of black and brown kids with the occasional white kid and the accelerated classes were the reverse. That is not right and racial profiling happened and smart black kids got screwed. That isn’t fair.

You can always find ways to supplement math and science. Not so for English and writing.

We need to do better for our students in a way that doesn’t perpetuate racial profiling. I don’t have the answer but what we have now sucks. And what we had before was racist.

Can you explain more about how this happened? If a Black student registered for Honors, why wouldn't they be able to take it? The counselors were just putting them in on-level instead?

[Anonymous]

I am no expert, but I think it was a matter of systemic racism. Students of color were more likely to go to low performing middle and elementary schools so their scores were lower and too often the majority white teachers didn’t identify/recommend smart black kids for the honors classes. This is why the county has been changing how students are selected for magnet programs, taking high fliers from each school.

Whatever the specific reason, the fact was that honors classes used to be majority white and on level classes the reverse.

So I don’t want to go back to those days, but 9th and 10th grade classes that are a mix of abilities are so, so hard to teach, and smart kids, Black and white, get disillusioned with humanities by sitting through them.

[Anonymous]

You can absolutely supplement in English and writing. AOPS has excellent English classes. We have an enrichment literature tutor who works with my kid on both analysis and writing. There are lots of grammar resources out there too.



Hi PP I’m really looking for an enrichment literature tutor for my DD in 7 th grade . Can you share your contact info for the tutor ? I know AOPS. But class timings are our issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You can absolutely supplement in English and writing. AOPS has excellent English classes. We have an enrichment literature tutor who works with my kid on both analysis and writing. There are lots of grammar resources out there too.



Hi PP I’m really looking for an enrichment literature tutor for my DD in 7 th grade . Can you share your contact info for the tutor ? I know AOPS. But class timings are our issue.

Yes, if you login and reply to this message, I can contact you with the tutor's name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am no expert, but I think it was a matter of systemic racism. Students of color were more likely to go to low performing middle and elementary schools so their scores were lower and too often the majority white teachers didn’t identify/recommend smart black kids for the honors classes. This is why the county has been changing how students are selected for magnet programs, taking high fliers from each school.

Whatever the specific reason, the fact was that honors classes used to be majority white and on level classes the reverse.

So I don’t want to go back to those days, but 9th and 10th grade classes that are a mix of abilities are so, so hard to teach, and smart kids, Black and white, get disillusioned with humanities by sitting through them.

Correlation causation and all that…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can absolutely supplement in English and writing. AOPS has excellent English classes. We have an enrichment literature tutor who works with my kid on both analysis and writing. There are lots of grammar resources out there too.



Hi PP I’m really looking for an enrichment literature tutor for my DD in 7 th grade . Can you share your contact info for the tutor ? I know AOPS. But class timings are our issue.

Yes, if you login and reply to this message, I can contact you with the tutor's name.

DP what AoPS language classes do you recommend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can absolutely supplement in English and writing. AOPS has excellent English classes. We have an enrichment literature tutor who works with my kid on both analysis and writing. There are lots of grammar resources out there too.



Hi PP I’m really looking for an enrichment literature tutor for my DD in 7 th grade . Can you share your contact info for the tutor ? I know AOPS. But class timings are our issue.

Yes, if you login and reply to this message, I can contact you with the tutor's name.

DP what AoPS language classes do you recommend?

The honors language arts classes are fantastic. We did them through the virtual campus, but I think there are also some in-person options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an IB English teacher. I love the program and placed my own children in it.

IB English is rigorous and extremely writing focused. There’s a curriculum change on the horizon, but currently students:
- read 13 texts over 2 years (Many units end with essays to prep for the course-end assessments)
- complete the Higher Level essay, which is literary analysis assessed by IB
- complete the Individual Oral, which is a 15 minute oral assessment. (This is a tricky task. Students are only allowed ten bullet points and they must speak for a sustained ten minutes.)
- sit for the Paper 1 and Paper 2 exams at the end of senior year

The course develops strong writers and critical thinkers. I highly recommend it.

+1 my child has grown tremendously as a writer and analytical thinker from these classes. There's no comparison with Honors English, but that would be better for a kid who dislikes writing.

There's a little bit of confusion about terminology here. IB English is only available in 11th and 12th grades. If a school does not have an IB program, the advanced 11th and 12th graders would be taking AP Composition and AP Literature, not Honors English.

Now, the only exception is if you are in an IB magnet, in which case you are in pre-IB English in 9th and 10th. But that's only possible at RMIB and the regional IB magnet programs, not at a school like B-CC or Einstein that just happens to host an IB program in 11th and 12th grades.

Bottom line: enrichment is available in 11th and 12th regardless of whether your school has an IB program. Enrichment is only available in 9th and 10th if you are in a magnet, either IB or Humanities.

Every student in 9th and 10th grades take pre-IB English, not just those in the magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an IB English teacher. I love the program and placed my own children in it.

IB English is rigorous and extremely writing focused. There’s a curriculum change on the horizon, but currently students:
- read 13 texts over 2 years (Many units end with essays to prep for the course-end assessments)
- complete the Higher Level essay, which is literary analysis assessed by IB
- complete the Individual Oral, which is a 15 minute oral assessment. (This is a tricky task. Students are only allowed ten bullet points and they must speak for a sustained ten minutes.)
- sit for the Paper 1 and Paper 2 exams at the end of senior year

The course develops strong writers and critical thinkers. I highly recommend it.

+1 my child has grown tremendously as a writer and analytical thinker from these classes. There's no comparison with Honors English, but that would be better for a kid who dislikes writing.

There's a little bit of confusion about terminology here. IB English is only available in 11th and 12th grades. If a school does not have an IB program, the advanced 11th and 12th graders would be taking AP Composition and AP Literature, not Honors English.

Now, the only exception is if you are in an IB magnet, in which case you are in pre-IB English in 9th and 10th. But that's only possible at RMIB and the regional IB magnet programs, not at a school like B-CC or Einstein that just happens to host an IB program in 11th and 12th grades.

Bottom line: enrichment is available in 11th and 12th regardless of whether your school has an IB program. Enrichment is only available in 9th and 10th if you are in a magnet, either IB or Humanities.

Every student in 9th and 10th grades take pre-IB English, not just those in the magnet.

Correction: I meant every student at RM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in the DCC with a middle schooler, and as we look at the course offerings at each school, I struggle to find one that has both strong STEM offerings and IB English. Am I missing something? Our home school, Einstein, has IB but no AP science classes.

We are finding the same too. Home school is Blair. My impression is that overall the English instruction is weak across the board unless in some type of special program. Math/Science seems to have more advanced options across several schools (not all - but several).

One thing to know is that "Honors for All" for high school English is relatively new, which means that concerted advocacy could probably get it changed. Up until last year, schools with IB programs were allowed to offer "Pre-IB English 9" and "Pre-IB English 10." Schools without IB were allowed to offer Honors English 9 and 10, which were cohorted and accelerated. This year's 10th graders are the first class that has to deal with those classes going away, but it does mean that a curriculum exists and could be brought back in a matter of months, should there be any political will behind it.

So you are saying RM magnet students now take English with neighbor students? That's a big change...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an IB English teacher. I love the program and placed my own children in it.

IB English is rigorous and extremely writing focused. There’s a curriculum change on the horizon, but currently students:
- read 13 texts over 2 years (Many units end with essays to prep for the course-end assessments)
- complete the Higher Level essay, which is literary analysis assessed by IB
- complete the Individual Oral, which is a 15 minute oral assessment. (This is a tricky task. Students are only allowed ten bullet points and they must speak for a sustained ten minutes.)
- sit for the Paper 1 and Paper 2 exams at the end of senior year

The course develops strong writers and critical thinkers. I highly recommend it.

+1 my child has grown tremendously as a writer and analytical thinker from these classes. There's no comparison with Honors English, but that would be better for a kid who dislikes writing.

There's a little bit of confusion about terminology here. IB English is only available in 11th and 12th grades. If a school does not have an IB program, the advanced 11th and 12th graders would be taking AP Composition and AP Literature, not Honors English.

Now, the only exception is if you are in an IB magnet, in which case you are in pre-IB English in 9th and 10th. But that's only possible at RMIB and the regional IB magnet programs, not at a school like B-CC or Einstein that just happens to host an IB program in 11th and 12th grades.

Bottom line: enrichment is available in 11th and 12th regardless of whether your school has an IB program. Enrichment is only available in 9th and 10th if you are in a magnet, either IB or Humanities.

Every student in 9th and 10th grades take pre-IB English, not just those in the magnet.

Just to clarify, the IB does offer an "all through" program that has been used in Europe and some private schools for years. They have a PYP (primary years program) for elementary and an MYP (middle years program) as well as the DP. If your public school is only offering the DP and some kind of self-created "pre-IB" program for 9th and 10th graders, it is because they are cheaping out on doing the full program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an IB English teacher. I love the program and placed my own children in it.

IB English is rigorous and extremely writing focused. There’s a curriculum change on the horizon, but currently students:
- read 13 texts over 2 years (Many units end with essays to prep for the course-end assessments)
- complete the Higher Level essay, which is literary analysis assessed by IB
- complete the Individual Oral, which is a 15 minute oral assessment. (This is a tricky task. Students are only allowed ten bullet points and they must speak for a sustained ten minutes.)
- sit for the Paper 1 and Paper 2 exams at the end of senior year

The course develops strong writers and critical thinkers. I highly recommend it.

+1 my child has grown tremendously as a writer and analytical thinker from these classes. There's no comparison with Honors English, but that would be better for a kid who dislikes writing.

There's a little bit of confusion about terminology here. IB English is only available in 11th and 12th grades. If a school does not have an IB program, the advanced 11th and 12th graders would be taking AP Composition and AP Literature, not Honors English.

Now, the only exception is if you are in an IB magnet, in which case you are in pre-IB English in 9th and 10th. But that's only possible at RMIB and the regional IB magnet programs, not at a school like B-CC or Einstein that just happens to host an IB program in 11th and 12th grades.

Bottom line: enrichment is available in 11th and 12th regardless of whether your school has an IB program. Enrichment is only available in 9th and 10th if you are in a magnet, either IB or Humanities.

Every student in 9th and 10th grades take pre-IB English, not just those in the magnet.

Just to clarify, the IB does offer an "all through" program that has been used in Europe and some private schools for years. They have a PYP (primary years program) for elementary and an MYP (middle years program) as well as the DP. If your public school is only offering the DP and some kind of self-created "pre-IB" program for 9th and 10th graders, it is because they are cheaping out on doing the full program.

RM /JW has had the MYP program for many years but the magnet students took separate pre IB classes.

[Anonymous]

Never heard of AoPS until this post.

Looks like it’s only in Gaithersburg! Any other similar options down county?