What schools are most like UChicago 20 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Many people putting liberal arts colleges are partially ill informed and partially idealizing. Especially top liberal arts colleges are filled with students wanting to go into Consulting, IB, PE, Big Law, etc. for the money. They’re smart and intellectual for sure, but the pre-professional culture does exist (albeit more subtle than places like Stanford)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Great school, but my friend with kid there now said it’s very preprofessional

“Preprofessional” like it’s an auto mechanic or dental hygienist school 🙄

Are we… pretending we don’t want our kids to have good jobs after they graduate?

No. I think it’s a question of relative focus. Some prefer an environment where there’s a discernible passion for academic exploration in depth and breadth, some prefer an environment where there’s comparatively more attention on specific career networking and entry. I think every school has a degree of both, some are known for more of one or the other.

If you go to Claremont now I guarantee you will be in an environment with a discernible passion for academics.

The students are not there to "phone it in" academically while building their career network and job hunting.

Goof grief.

CMC is a fine school but a nonobvious comp for UChicago. Students passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. UChicago has always been known for high PhD production, usually placing in the top 10. CMC does not place in the top 100 because of its more pre-professional orientation. That doesn’t make CMC less of a school, it’s just different from what OP is probably looking for. Ok?

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-effectiveness-research-assessment/Doct%20Rates%20Top%20100%20Tot%20Sci%20Rankings%20-Summary%20to%202022.pdf

[Anonymous]

UChicago is about 33% STEM. Most of the schools mentioned earlier are in the 30-40 range (although Carleton and Swarthmore are in the 40-50 range and Rice between 50-60.). CMC is below 10%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Great school, but my friend with kid there now said it’s very preprofessional

“Preprofessional” like it’s an auto mechanic or dental hygienist school 🙄

Are we… pretending we don’t want our kids to have good jobs after they graduate?

No. I think it’s a question of relative focus. Some prefer an environment where there’s a discernible passion for academic exploration in depth and breadth, some prefer an environment where there’s comparatively more attention on specific career networking and entry. I think every school has a degree of both, some are known for more of one or the other.

If you go to Claremont now I guarantee you will be in an environment with a discernible passion for academics.

The students are not there to "phone it in" academically while building their career network and job hunting.

Goof grief.

CMC is a fine school but a nonobvious comp for UChicago. Students passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. UChicago has always been known for high PhD production, usually placing in the top 10. CMC does not place in the top 100 because of its more pre-professional orientation. That doesn’t make CMC less of a school, it’s just different from what OP is probably looking for. Ok?

I disagree that "pursuing a PhD" is the best metric for determining whether or not students are passionate about academics, and I totally disagree that if your school is not a "top PhD producer" then you are a "pre-professional" school. Complete nonsense.

Last but not least, getting a PhD was absolutely not the primary objective of attending Chicago "back in the day".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Great school, but my friend with kid there now said it’s very preprofessional

“Preprofessional” like it’s an auto mechanic or dental hygienist school 🙄

Are we… pretending we don’t want our kids to have good jobs after they graduate?

No. I think it’s a question of relative focus. Some prefer an environment where there’s a discernible passion for academic exploration in depth and breadth, some prefer an environment where there’s comparatively more attention on specific career networking and entry. I think every school has a degree of both, some are known for more of one or the other.

If you go to Claremont now I guarantee you will be in an environment with a discernible passion for academics.

The students are not there to "phone it in" academically while building their career network and job hunting.

Goof grief.

CMC is a fine school but a nonobvious comp for UChicago. Students passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. UChicago has always been known for high PhD production, usually placing in the top 10. CMC does not place in the top 100 because of its more pre-professional orientation. That doesn’t make CMC less of a school, it’s just different from what OP is probably looking for. Ok?

I disagree that "pursuing a PhD" is the best metric for determining whether or not students are passionate about academics, and I totally disagree that if your school is not a "top PhD producer" then you are a "pre-professional" school. Complete nonsense.

Last but not least, getting a PhD was absolutely not the primary objective of attending Chicago "back in the day".

You didn’t read that very carefully. I didn’t say PhD production is the best metric for whether students are passionate about academics. I said students who are passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. I invite you to reflect on the difference. But that’s not even the main point. The self-selection and culture at UChicago have been and remain such that it produces future PhD earners at a top 10 rate. That it happens year after year means it’s no accident. Same with many other schools with similar repeated rates. It’s also no accident that CMC continues to produce at a low rate. So, that’s a difference in the feel of the school. Whether that difference arises from passion for academia or something else doesn’t need to be settled here.

Another perhaps larger difference is in the breakdown of majors. CMC is the least STEMy school I know of, other than the dedicated art schools. It’s skewed very heavily towards majors that are suited for finance, law, and business administration. This is what people mean when they have tried to tell you it’s highly pre-professional. UChicago has a fairly typical distribution of majors. So, someone who thinks major popularity is an indicator of departmental strength or who just values spending time with other majors in their own dorm (I know HMC and Pomona are a short walk away) might find CMC to be disappointing for STEM when it is very strong and at least typical in popularity at UChicago. (CMC also has unusually low numbers of art, English, foreign language majors relative to UChicago, about 3% vs 11% in sum.) Many people put a premium on this form of intellectual diversity.

I’m not trying to diminish CMC. It’s an excellent school for the pre-professional programs it’s known for. The problem is, OP specifically asked for a school that’s not especially pre-professional and more in the spirit of UChicago of 20 years ago.

It’s very possibly true that published free speech policies at UChicago are more similar to CMC than to many other places mentioned in this thread. I gather this was the impetus for your comparison. I will note, though, that policies and actual experiences are different things. From the students I have known to attend and visit UChicago, what the students actually say and do politically at UChicago is not noticeably different than at other highly regarded schools. The much advertised policies were more effective in dazzling certain parents than noticeably altering student discourse in one direction or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Great school, but my friend with kid there now said it’s very preprofessional and full of future consultants /finance types

It has been this way, even in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Great school, but my friend with kid there now said it’s very preprofessional

“Preprofessional” like it’s an auto mechanic or dental hygienist school 🙄

Are we… pretending we don’t want our kids to have good jobs after they graduate?

No. I think it’s a question of relative focus. Some prefer an environment where there’s a discernible passion for academic exploration in depth and breadth, some prefer an environment where there’s comparatively more attention on specific career networking and entry. I think every school has a degree of both, some are known for more of one or the other.

If you go to Claremont now I guarantee you will be in an environment with a discernible passion for academics.

The students are not there to "phone it in" academically while building their career network and job hunting.

Goof grief.

CMC is a fine school but a nonobvious comp for UChicago. Students passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. UChicago has always been known for high PhD production, usually placing in the top 10. CMC does not place in the top 100 because of its more pre-professional orientation. That doesn’t make CMC less of a school, it’s just different from what OP is probably looking for. Ok?

I disagree that "pursuing a PhD" is the best metric for determining whether or not students are passionate about academics, and I totally disagree that if your school is not a "top PhD producer" then you are a "pre-professional" school. Complete nonsense.

Last but not least, getting a PhD was absolutely not the primary objective of attending Chicago "back in the day".

You didn’t read that very carefully. I didn’t say PhD production is the best metric for whether students are passionate about academics. I said students who are passionate about academics and the academic process are more likely to pursue PhDs. I invite you to reflect on the difference. But that’s not even the main point. The self-selection and culture at UChicago have been and remain such that it produces future PhD earners at a top 10 rate. That it happens year after year means it’s no accident. Same with many other schools with similar repeated rates. It’s also no accident that CMC continues to produce at a low rate. So, that’s a difference in the feel of the school. Whether that difference arises from passion for academia or something else doesn’t need to be settled here.

Another perhaps larger difference is in the breakdown of majors. CMC is the least STEMy school I know of, other than the dedicated art schools. It’s skewed very heavily towards majors that are suited for finance, law, and business administration. This is what people mean when they have tried to tell you it’s highly pre-professional. UChicago has a fairly typical distribution of majors. So, someone who thinks major popularity is an indicator of departmental strength or who just values spending time with other majors in their own dorm (I know HMC and Pomona are a short walk away) might find CMC to be disappointing for STEM when it is very strong and at least typical in popularity at UChicago. (CMC also has unusually low numbers of art, English, foreign language majors relative to UChicago, about 3% vs 11% in sum.) Many people put a premium on this form of intellectual diversity.

I’m not trying to diminish CMC. It’s an excellent school for the pre-professional programs it’s known for. The problem is, OP specifically asked for a school that’s not especially pre-professional and more in the spirit of UChicago of 20 years ago.

It’s very possibly true that published free speech policies at UChicago are more similar to CMC than to many other places mentioned in this thread. I gather this was the impetus for your comparison. I will note, though, that policies and actual experiences are different things. From the students I have known to attend and visit UChicago, what the students actually say and do politically at UChicago is not noticeably different than at other highly regarded schools. The much advertised policies were more effective in dazzling certain parents than noticeably altering student discourse in one direction or the other.

This is very well written. And then my kids tell me "get off DCUM"